General Discussion Triathlon Talk » 'off season' longs Rss Feed  
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2008-10-17 11:33 AM

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Subject: 'off season' longs
Just taking a informal looky at what folks do for their long s/b/r in the fall and winter months (for those of us 'fortunate', and i do kind of mean that, enough to have a true fall and winter).  I am just about physically and mentally recovered enough from my mary a few weeks ago and want to start informal base again withouts hitting burnout.  Boston training starts around Jan but dont want to sit on my arse either til then.  Blah blah blah....original question again- whats good durations for long run, bike and swim in the time some of us ease back a hair?


2008-10-17 11:35 AM
in reply to: #1749810

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Pro
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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
Oh yeah, my thoughts for me are around 15 mile long run, 2-2.5 hr bike, hour swim (not a fan of the pool, so that is huge!   )
2008-10-17 11:38 AM
in reply to: #1749811

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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
I'd say 1.5 - 2 for the run, 2 - 3 for the bike.  Swimming long?  What's that?
2008-10-17 11:47 AM
in reply to: #1749810

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Not a Coach
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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
Pretty much same as Rick.  All my swims max out at about an hour, so really the only thing getting reduced is long rides since it's not often in the winter that it's nice enough to want to ride over 3 hours outside and I can't bear the thought of riding on the trainer that long.  I don't ever run much over 2 hours except when I'm training for a marathon (like now).
2008-10-17 11:54 AM
in reply to: #1749810

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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs

My bike riding is reduced, as I can't stand to be on the trainer more than an hour, and outside rides are out until the sun returns for the early evening hours.  My running and swimming have actually increased, in the case of running, dramatically, as I am no longer worried as much about getting injured and missing a race.  Of course I have a long way to go before I'm considered to be "doing a lot" anyway. 

so, my averages are 1 hour on bike 4x week, 45 minutes swimming 2x week, and running 1 hour 1x a week/30 minutes 3x a week.

2008-10-17 12:02 PM
in reply to: #1749810

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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
I'd make certain I was completely rested and recovered from a season of racing. I would even take a few weeks to a month off completely from training. Next, I'd build slowly with a variety of exercises, i.e.  swim, bike, run, ellliptical, rowing, stairstepper, etc...  As for duration, I think you can go almost as long as you like if you keep your intensity level under control. Just my two cents.

Matt Cazalas
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2008-10-17 12:17 PM
in reply to: #1749810

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over a barrier
Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
Bike will peak at around 1:15 and run at 1hr - about 7-8 hrs per week. Zero Swimming. None of my workouts are easy or base though. They are all work with bike sets at or near FTP and runs at Half Marathon pace to mile repeats. Building the fast, I'll put the far on this spring/summer.

Out Season training with Endurnace Nation
2008-10-17 12:31 PM
in reply to: #1749810

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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
I will probably start going to swim practice more (2-3 1.5 hour swims/week). Long bikes reduced to 2-2.5 hours (hate the trainer) and running increased to 4-5 times per week building up to 40/miles week with 1 15+ mile/run per week. Will also probably get talked into a 10K swim on New Years Day.
2008-10-17 1:57 PM
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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
I will still go kind of long in the winter with mild temps
Starting mid November after 3 weeks off for some R N R

My longs will be
I'll do some wetsuit IM length swims in the outdoor pool and maybe lakes, easy paced

Biking will be up to 5 hours or 100 miles easy group rides (small chain ring) with 1 - 180 mile tour ride in February

I'll run up to 1/2 - 2 hours, 1- 20 miler for a "C" marathon race in Jan

I stay long and easy because it is fun and I enjoy spending time with the club, if I am not having fun then I cut it back. 95% of my training season training is solo so this is my time to catch up with the guys. I never worry about pace and speed till I begin to base build in mid March for a 1/2.




2008-10-17 1:59 PM
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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
Not to hijack, but is there a benefit to going longer at this time for those of us who have rarely or never been there before?

In my case, I've never done an M or IM before, but I'm preparing to do IMMOO next year. Is there even a benefit to building my long runs into the 3-4 hour range or trainer rides into the 4 - 6 hour range at this time of year or should I just maintain until it's time to really start my IM plan for IMMOO?

I can see why there might not be as much benefit for guys like jszat or jk, who have built incredible bases in the past, but what about us regular folk?

2008-10-17 3:49 PM
in reply to: #1749810

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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
Winter is marathon training season for me (I only do one a year at this point and it's in late winter). So my long runs start to build after my last tri...last weekend was a 14.5 miler and I'm headed for 20 mi. by the end of the year (i.e., 2-3 hours).

Bike 2-3 hours. Swim 30-45 min.


2008-10-17 7:47 PM
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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
I'm on a swim team and it is the start of swim team season for me now, so my long swims are in the 2 hour range. For everything else, I honestly have no idea yet. I hope to get in some 2 hour bikes and runs this winter- if I can brave the cold.
2008-10-17 8:49 PM
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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
Bike up to 2 hours (3 if weather is great), swim up to 40 minutes, run up to uh... 8-10 hours?
2008-10-18 4:44 AM
in reply to: #1750330

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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs

scoobysdad - 2008-10-17 2:59 PM Not to hijack, but is there a benefit to going longer at this time for those of us who have rarely or never been there before? In my case, I've never done an M or IM before, but I'm preparing to do IMMOO next year. Is there even a benefit to building my long runs into the 3-4 hour range or trainer rides into the 4 - 6 hour range at this time of year or should I just maintain until it's time to really start my IM plan for IMMOO? I can see why there might not be as much benefit for guys like jszat or jk, who have built incredible bases in the past, but what about us regular folk?

First, my base is far from incredible (but thanks for the compliment ).

Second, only when I train for a marathon (twice now) have I ever gotten NEAR a 3 hour run.  I would NOT recommend this to anybody.  2 hours is plenty.  2.5 if you feel you need to go longer to cover more distance.

I would also NEVER encourage anybody to ride the trainer for 4-6 hours!  If you were training for IM and forced to do it, fine.  Otherwise, I'd encourage you to ride much shorter (2 hours is MORE than enough) and much harder.  Go longer when you can get outside. 

This is partly related to the "build fast" now and add "far" later that running2far notes above.  In fact, if you're interested, there's a free webinar this weekend by the guys at EN.  It's to push their program, but probably has some useful info for anybody to think about in planning their training.  In short, "base" isn't just about going for a long(er) time at a slow(er) pace.

2008-10-18 8:33 AM
in reply to: #1751287

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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
JohnnyKay - 2008-10-18 4:44 AM

scoobysdad - 2008-10-17 2:59 PM Not to hijack, but is there a benefit to going longer at this time for those of us who have rarely or never been there before? In my case, I've never done an M or IM before, but I'm preparing to do IMMOO next year. Is there even a benefit to building my long runs into the 3-4 hour range or trainer rides into the 4 - 6 hour range at this time of year or should I just maintain until it's time to really start my IM plan for IMMOO? I can see why there might not be as much benefit for guys like jszat or jk, who have built incredible bases in the past, but what about us regular folk?

First, my base is far from incredible (but thanks for the compliment ).

Second, only when I train for a marathon (twice now) have I ever gotten NEAR a 3 hour run.  I would NOT recommend this to anybody.  2 hours is plenty.  2.5 if you feel you need to go longer to cover more distance.

I would also NEVER encourage anybody to ride the trainer for 4-6 hours!  If you were training for IM and forced to do it, fine.  Otherwise, I'd encourage you to ride much shorter (2 hours is MORE than enough) and much harder.  Go longer when you can get outside. 

This is partly related to the "build fast" now and add "far" later that running2far notes above.  In fact, if you're interested, there's a free webinar this weekend by the guys at EN.  It's to push their program, but probably has some useful info for anybody to think about in planning their training.  In short, "base" isn't just about going for a long(er) time at a slow(er) pace.



Thanks, JK. Great stuff, as always.

2008-10-18 10:33 AM
in reply to: #1751287

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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs
JohnnyKay - 2008-10-18 4:44 AM

Second, only when I train for a marathon (twice now) have I ever gotten NEAR a 3 hour run. I would NOT recommend this to anybody. 2 hours is plenty. 2.5 if you feel you need to go longer to cover more distance.
 

I had a lot of issues with deep fades in marys and experimented with the intermediate plan on cool runnings for my last mary.  It was mileage based and championed more 20+ runs with a long of 26.  The caveat is that you do this easier than race day obviously (they suggest 90-120 seconds over 10k pace).  All in, I think I had a 20, 24 and 26.2 (like I was not going to cover the full distance when they said 26, cmon)  Their logic was that it would help on race day knowing you could cover the distance but it also give you a heads up what to expect in those last tough 5-6 miles.  Dunno, probably not for everyone, but just wanted to post it as an aside on the comment as I followed a plan similar to this and it topped me out about 3:35 though hydration has changed some of that.  End result on this plan was 25 min PR and a trip to Boston.  Ultimately do what works for you and your body, but just wanted to throw some evidence from the go longer for mary training camp, which I know is the minority.  And I would say that is if you are racing it vs running it to finish. 



2008-10-19 1:55 AM
in reply to: #1749810

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Subject: RE: 'off season' longs

For your transition and early base period, I would focus more on frequency, than duration.  Within my own training (these days, not when I was racing elite); I like to have one day a week that is endurance focused.  Right now that means I might do something like... ride to a local park, hike up a mtn, ride home -- about 3-4 hours of low HR cross training.

 So I wouldn't even worry about "long" anything in terms of tri-specific.  Goal for the first six weeks back is establishing workout frequency, skills development and gradual endurance development.

 After 6-8 weeks of that, then you might consider a couple of 10-14 day blocks where you do your weakest sport quite often.  I call these "camps" -- swim camp and/or run camp can be a great way to change things up and make progress in the winter.

 Hope this helps,

 gordo

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