Feuding Clubs

Pretty simple. Respect the trails and each other. 

In this case, I think the trail runners should return the trails to the condition they found them in...Untie the markers, and to the extent possible, rake in / cover the spray painted stuff. 

Everyone wins. 

x2

In addition, I can't imagine a club organized around outdoor venues/facilities (the trails) not wanting to maintain them in a fairly natural condition. If you put out temporary markers, take them in when you're done.

Shoot, as a race director I have more respect for the roads than this club seems to have (by your account) for the trails. We mark our routes with less-permanent (and more expensive) spray chalk rather than paint, and all signage is picked up after the race and used the next year.

Leave No Trace. It is the motto of hikers and backpackers, and should also be followed by anyone else that uses public lands. Otherwise, the conditions become degraded and everyone loses.

I suspect if they DID have permission to mark the trail, it was not intended to be permanently marked. And for a 5k on a trail, I would wonder why they needed to mark the trail at all? Station volunteers and orange cones at the relevant trail junctures and the turn around, and direct people. Or use flour. 

Ya, I agree with every one. This is a pretty silly thing to fight over... remove your markings. Does not matter is "someone" said it was OK.... it should not be OK to the running club.

It's hard to get excited over spray paint on dirt, but as mentioned chalk would be even better. But leaving tied markers every 50 yards... really, seriously? That's not cool.

While the trail is not the MTB club's... I can certainly understand why they are mad. When they as a club try hard to maintain a trail responsibly, then another club does not.

And for a solution, both clubs need to get together for a trail maintenance day and get to know each other instead of flaminging over the interweb.

I got into trail running in Central Illinois and benefited from the mountain bikers doing a lot of trail development and maintenance.  Even though I'm not a mountain biker, I joined them for some work days and helped build/maintain the trails.  Your trail running group could build a lot of good will doing the same. 

The tied on markers are trash and could be considered littering. At least out here in the desert. 

"Leave only footprints".... The trail runners need to return the trails to the original condition.

I'm with the "leave the trails the way you found them" folks, although it sounds like both groups need to come together and work on common interests rather than try to play dominance games.

Apples and elephants. You can't hold the MB group accountable for the actions of people who may not even be affiliated with them.

I find this all confusing...  Maybe because of what I was taught/learned.

I'm shocked runners/hikers would ever imagine to leave gaudy orange ribbon and paint on a trail.  That goes against everything I learned in Colorado.  You should leave no sign you were ever their, ideally.

Bikers SHOULD give hikers the right of way.  Downhill bikers give right of way to uphill bikers.

Hikers and bikers should give way to equestrian.

Bikers should tread lightly (don't lock up rear brakes and cause ruts).

I think a lot of that should cover the issues.  I thought that was just basic rules of the trail.

As for finding tubes/reflectors.  It's a bit different to accidently leave something on the trail than just being lazy and leaving markings.  But a "REAL" mtn biker shouldn't have reflectors!  And there is no excuse for leaving a tube on purpose.

I think the problem is just poeple don't follow the rules.  If they did, this wouldn't even be an issue, IMO.

I do not get on the trails that much and the "trails" I tend to get on are the ones with a big clear crushed limestone path so its easy to find your way. though I still made a few wrong turns. 

Wouldn't those ribbons basically be markers so you do not get lost on the trails?  So basically aren't those a good thing for everyone? 

I figure helping people not to get lost and helping to prevent them from stomping the non trail land would help the over all eco system more than potential problems with ribbons. 

Because you should know you shouldn't ever be off trail.  And you should know where you are going if you are just hiking/biking, IMO.

You don't hang orange plastic ribbon on trees unless it's a race and you need to guide people for that event, then you remove it.

Proper trail markings should be visually unobtrusive, IMO.  A trail sign the same color as the surroundings, a pile of rocks, etc.  It's surprising how visually upsetting it is to want to be in nature and see neon orange all around.  Maybe it's just me.

I go on trails a lot. We have a lot of great ones here in Pennsylvania. Many of them have multiple trails that cross one another. So having some kind of ribbons would be (a) messy and (b) confusing. Trails should be blazed, with a painted stripe on the trees, to help people that did not think to bring a map.

x2 on this.  For a 5k race orange cones or even wire flag stakes on the left side that can easily be removed by the running club should be sufficient.  That is how we do it here.   It's to everyone's benefit for both groups to get along it only drives people away from both sports.

To pile on, The mountain bikes are probably defensive and a bit possesive of the trails, I suspect they are the ones who had to engage the land manager for the initial permission to build the trails in the first place, then build and continuously maintain them. Keeping trails in rideable condition is an on-going labor of love. 

While it's true that the trails on public land belong to everyone, if the trail-running club doesn't clean up after themselves, they are going to quickly wear out their welcome with both the other user groups and the land manager.

I know that when we build trails (and I have graduated IMBA trail-building school for both hand-building and machine building) we pick up our corridor markings as we go. The best analogy I can find is building a cyclocross course in a park, the promoter has to mark the course or there will be no course. Typically one uses either stakes and ribbon or pin flags, and every single marker gets removed as soon as the race is done. You leave the park the way you found it (maybe with a few extra tire tracks, and even those should be mitigated as much as possible.)  This is how it has worked for decades all over the world.

Sounds to me like the trail running club has some growing up to do, and they better be quick about it, or they may find themselves with a bad reputation among local land managers and shut out of a venue to race.