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Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training?
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| General Discussion | Triathlon Talk » Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? | Rss Feed  |
 2009-07-27 4:21 PM |
Champion  10471    Dallas, TX |  Subject: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training?I am following the "27-Week Plan to a Half-Ironman" training plan from "Training Plans for Multisport Athletes", and it has a minimum of 3 hours a week swimming, up to 3:30. Well, I can tell you, I am NOT doing all that swim training. I'm a solid swimmer and for me to swim for 3 hours in a week, that is going to be 10,000 meters a week (I swim 5,000 in 1:30). I can honestly swim around 4,000-6,000 meters a week and come out of the water feeling fine at my HIM, with a decent time. Does anyone else see the swim times in these training plans and think, "WHAT ARE THEY THINKING??!!!". I know my boyfriend has had the same thing with a BT HIM training plan and he probably only does 75% of what is required. Feel free to vote. Let's see who is swimming 3:00-3:30 a week for a HIM... or whatever YOUR plan calls for. If you are not swiming it, what % are you swimming? ***NOTE: People who have coaches don't really fit in this catagory, as you trust your coach to give you the amount you need. **** |
| 2009-07-27 5:32 PM in reply to: #2311064 |
Master 1790  Tyler, TX | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? I swam 2 to 3 hours per week when I was in HIM training. Like you, swimming is my stronger sport so I don't put in as many hours as others/plans suggest. I'd swim two one-hour sessions with my Masters team, and another swim on my own during lunch if I had time and enough energy. We don't do high yardage sessions with my Masters team so I'd typically swim anywhere between 5,000 to 7,500 meters in a week. |
| 2009-07-27 5:37 PM in reply to: #2311064 |
| Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? I voted 100%, but honestly it's probably more, since I kept my own swim training schedule even tho I was using a plan. 8K in a light week, 13K in a heavy week. Which is about 4 hours worth of work Here's my thinking. Most people approach long course tri swimming with the wrong attitude (IMHO), i.e. "it's the shortest part of the day, I can get through it, and then worry about the bike/run, most of the time is spent on the bike so that's where I'll spend my time." My attitude was that I wanted a fast swim time and I didn't want to waste heartbeats doing it. Having a fast swim (:59 at IMAZ) and coming out of the water fresh sets your day up MUCH differently than those that just "get through" the swim. Not only do you come out fresh, yoou come out with generally faster cyclists and can feed off them and avoid the big crowds. btw, not saying this about the OP or any other person that's responded, it's a general statement about how people approach the swim. Edited by ChrisM 2009-07-27 5:37 PM |
| 2009-07-27 5:55 PM in reply to: #2311186 |
Pro 4277 Parker, CO | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? ChrisM - 2009-07-27 4:37 PM Here's my thinking. Most people approach long course tri swimming with the wrong attitude (IMHO), i.e. "it's the shortest part of the day, I can get through it, and then worry about the bike/run, most of the time is spent on the bike so that's where I'll spend my time." that's exactly my attitude going in to my first IM and has always been my attitude at any other distance. The most i am going to be swimming is 3-hours in a week...tops! I'm pretty certain this will get me a swim time of ~1:10-1:15 and I am fine with that. I don't expect to be trashed from the swim. I've used my HR monitor during swims in tris and my HR is always low and i come out of the water feeling pretty decent. To be honest, I am just not all that confident in my swimming abilities to where I want to push myself the way I would on the bike and the run (but I am confortable in the open water at my own pace). I enjoy swimming okay...but my sinuses do not! swimming in chlorinated pools kills me. you will never see me swim 2-days in a row and seldom longer than an hour in a pool. Sure, I could be a stronger swimmer with more effort...but I just don't enjoy being miserable all day from being in the pool! To the OP, I have never had a coach and I am sure I fall well under the recommended swimming from the BT/IM training plan. But I really don't know because I am not following anyone's training plan. |
| 2009-07-27 8:38 PM in reply to: #2311064 |
Expert 939 Newton, MA | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? I think I swam 3-3:30 for my IM, nevermind HIM. |
| 2009-07-27 10:30 PM in reply to: #2311064 |
Veteran 416 | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? Maybe I shouldn't have read this. I'm on a coached IM plan and it never even occurred to me to NOT do 100% of the swims (which is about 6 hours a week). It's maybe a little much, but I don't feel at all like I'm wasting my time since I've improved a lot in the past few months and I hope a strong swim sets up a strong day. |
| 2009-07-28 7:34 AM in reply to: #2311064 |
Veteran 318 Indianapolis | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? I voted 75%. I try to do my swims at lunch so I am limited to about 45 min or so. I can easily get in 2200-2500 yds in that time. I was really happy with my swim in the HIM I did. However, now that I know what to expect, I will probably hit the pool a bit harder for next year. I came out of the water feeling great, but next year I want to attack the swim a bit more and still feel ready to hit the bike. I have a swimming background too, so in my opinion, I just don't have to put in the yardage to be fairly fast on the swim. Next year I want to be under 30 min and feel the same way I felt this year. Now that I know what to expect, I will tailor my swims to meet that goal. My time to me is better spent on the bike, cause I am horrible at that. |
| 2009-07-28 9:32 AM in reply to: #2311064 |
Not a Coach 11473 Media, PA | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? If more triathletes spent 3 hours per week in the pool, their swim times would be better (in ANY distance tri) and they'd have a much greater ability to leverage whatever bike & run fitness they have. For stronger swimmers, 3 hours might not be enough to see much difference over, say, 2 hours (or maybe even less). Others may simply not have (or want to commit) to the time required. But that's not any different than choosing to cut out other workouts and do 'less'--for whatever reasons. Anyway, 3 hours is roughly my typical swim volume goal when tri training for any distance. I do skip a swim now and then and almost never make those up. So I average a bit less than "100%". |
| 2009-07-28 9:43 AM in reply to: #2312322 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? I swim 3 hours per week, around that anyway....that is the plan....its M-W-F mornings, and depending on the workout, I'm usually done between 52-60 minutes. that includes rest. I have 3000 yard workouts, and have maybe 4-5-6 minutes of total rest. some weeks its more, some weeks it less, its all based on what the plan of the workout is. FWIW, this is for sprint and olympic training. I wouldn't expect it to go up much for HIM-IM trainging, either. maybe instead of 9000 yards I would do 11,000 per week, which would add maybe 15 mintues or so per session. For me, most of the time involved in swimming is getting to the pool, so once I'm there, It makes sense to swim for an hour as it takes 30 minutes just to commute, get ready and get there.... |
| 2009-07-28 9:48 AM in reply to: #2311064 |
Master 1702 Southern Ontario | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? For most of the plan I followed I did 2 of the 3 weekly swims. (I always did the distance specified and I hit all the "quality" swim days.) However, the past month I've had no pool - so I've been swimming a lot of open water. I'm also from a swimming background - so the swim doesn't worry me too much. I know I'm under for mileage in that one - but I'm confident of my ability and my strength to get me through. However, I've hit 95% of all the other workouts. (The bike and run scared me.) |
| 2009-07-28 9:49 AM in reply to: #2311683 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? InnerAthlete - 2009-07-27 11:30 PM Maybe I shouldn't have read this. I'm on a coached IM plan and it never even occurred to me to NOT do 100% of the swims (which is about 6 hours a week). It's maybe a little much, but I don't feel at all like I'm wasting my time since I've improved a lot in the past few months and I hope a strong swim sets up a strong day. good, because you are not. there's a reason you have 6 hours of pool time a week. and if you are hitting all other training objectives and trust your coach and the plan, there is absolutely no reason you should change your point of view. your swim fitness will also carry over to the other two sports as well. |
| 2009-07-28 9:59 AM in reply to: #2312370 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? cusetri - 2009-07-28 9:49 AM InnerAthlete - 2009-07-27 11:30 PM Maybe I shouldn't have read this. I'm on a coached IM plan and it never even occurred to me to NOT do 100% of the swims (which is about 6 hours a week). It's maybe a little much, but I don't feel at all like I'm wasting my time since I've improved a lot in the past few months and I hope a strong swim sets up a strong day. good, because you are not. there's a reason you have 6 hours of pool time a week. and if you are hitting all other training objectives and trust your coach and the plan, there is absolutely no reason you should change your point of view. your swim fitness will also carry over to the other two sports as well. I am not trying to say that it's a waste of time... it certainly isn't. I was really just curious as to how others viewed a training plan that had 3+ hours worth of swimming a week. Since I have a swimming background, I know I can swim less and still come out of the water at the same time and feeling the same. I think swimming background vs. no swimming background should have been a qualifier in my poll. |
| 2009-07-28 10:12 AM in reply to: #2311064 |
Champion 6962 Atlanta, Ga | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? Don't forget that the swim is also a good way to get in recovery. So while you may be crushing every swim workout, they are not all meant to be crushed. You gain aerobic fitness and recovery in the water. So it's not just about getting faster. If my speed stays the same and my effiecency (sp) gets better in the water by doing 3 swims a week, I'm there. FWIW, the rule of thumb *I* use is: 2 swims/week = maintenance 3 swims/week = improvement 4 swims/week = building |
| 2009-07-28 10:17 AM in reply to: #2311064 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? KSH - 2009-07-27 4:21 PM I am following the "27-Week Plan to a Half-Ironman" training plan from "Training Plans for Multisport Athletes", and it has a minimum of 3 hours a week swimming, up to 3:30. Well, I can tell you, I am NOT doing all that swim training. I'm a solid swimmer and for me to swim for 3 hours in a week, that is going to be 10,000 meters a week (I swim 5,000 in 1:30). I can honestly swim around 4,000-6,000 meters a week and come out of the water feeling fine at my HIM, with a decent time. Does anyone else see the swim times in these training plans and think, "WHAT ARE THEY THINKING??!!!". I know my boyfriend has had the same thing with a BT HIM training plan and he probably only does 75% of what is required. Feel free to vote. Let's see who is swimming 3:00-3:30 a week for a HIM... or whatever YOUR plan calls for. If you are not swiming it, what % are you swimming? ***NOTE: People who have coaches don't really fit in this catagory, as you trust your coach to give you the amount you need. **** did you even swim that much for your 5k swim?? My opinion is a bit biased since I know you but I would think for YOU around 8,000 a week would be good and that would be aournd 2 hr ish?? I know when I swim with the masters groug I ignore what the training plan reads since I'll be over it, 3:30 hrs a week for 10,000-12,000. doesn't matter if it's a sprint or IM that's pretty much what I'd be swimming. |
| 2009-07-28 10:28 AM in reply to: #2312448 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? Gaarryy - 2009-07-28 10:17 AM KSH - 2009-07-27 4:21 PM I am following the "27-Week Plan to a Half-Ironman" training plan from "Training Plans for Multisport Athletes", and it has a minimum of 3 hours a week swimming, up to 3:30. Well, I can tell you, I am NOT doing all that swim training. I'm a solid swimmer and for me to swim for 3 hours in a week, that is going to be 10,000 meters a week (I swim 5,000 in 1:30). I can honestly swim around 4,000-6,000 meters a week and come out of the water feeling fine at my HIM, with a decent time. Does anyone else see the swim times in these training plans and think, "WHAT ARE THEY THINKING??!!!". I know my boyfriend has had the same thing with a BT HIM training plan and he probably only does 75% of what is required. Feel free to vote. Let's see who is swimming 3:00-3:30 a week for a HIM... or whatever YOUR plan calls for. If you are not swiming it, what % are you swimming? ***NOTE: People who have coaches don't really fit in this catagory, as you trust your coach to give you the amount you need. **** did you even swim that much for your 5k swim?? My opinion is a bit biased since I know you but I would think for YOU around 8,000 a week would be good and that would be aournd 2 hr ish?? I know when I swim with the masters groug I ignore what the training plan reads since I'll be over it, 3:30 hrs a week for 10,000-12,000. doesn't matter if it's a sprint or IM that's pretty much what I'd be swimming. The bulk of my training for the 3 mile swim was in June. Here are my swim totals for June: Swim: 12h 20m - 43717.76 Yd So I was swimming about 3 hours a week to train for the 3 mile. Yeah, I won't be doing 3 hours a week to train for a HIM, 1.2 mile swim. Nope. |
| 2009-07-28 2:11 PM in reply to: #2312401 |
Master 1853 syracuse | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? KSH - 2009-07-28 10:59 AM cusetri - 2009-07-28 9:49 AM I am not trying to say that it's a waste of time... it certainly isn't. I was really just curious as to how others viewed a training plan that had 3+ hours worth of swimming a week. Since I have a swimming background, I know I can swim less and still come out of the water at the same time and feeling the same. I think swimming background vs. no swimming background should have been a qualifier in my poll. InnerAthlete - 2009-07-27 11:30 PM Maybe I shouldn't have read this. I'm on a coached IM plan and it never even occurred to me to NOT do 100% of the swims (which is about 6 hours a week). It's maybe a little much, but I don't feel at all like I'm wasting my time since I've improved a lot in the past few months and I hope a strong swim sets up a strong day. good, because you are not. there's a reason you have 6 hours of pool time a week. and if you are hitting all other training objectives and trust your coach and the plan, there is absolutely no reason you should change your point of view. your swim fitness will also carry over to the other two sports as well. so, you have hit the absolute peak of your swim potential? swim as little or as much as you want. However, I would think 3+ hours of swimming would yield better results than 2 hours of swimming.....but I could be wrong. Of course, you have to be able to hit your other workouts and I wouldnt sacrafice biking/running time since you are always one of the first out of the water. If thats the case, I see your point. |
| 2009-07-28 2:14 PM in reply to: #2313224 |
| Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? cusetri - 2009-07-28 12:11 PM KSH - 2009-07-28 10:59 AM cusetri - 2009-07-28 9:49 AM I am not trying to say that it's a waste of time... it certainly isn't. I was really just curious as to how others viewed a training plan that had 3+ hours worth of swimming a week. Since I have a swimming background, I know I can swim less and still come out of the water at the same time and feeling the same. I think swimming background vs. no swimming background should have been a qualifier in my poll. InnerAthlete - 2009-07-27 11:30 PM Maybe I shouldn't have read this. I'm on a coached IM plan and it never even occurred to me to NOT do 100% of the swims (which is about 6 hours a week). It's maybe a little much, but I don't feel at all like I'm wasting my time since I've improved a lot in the past few months and I hope a strong swim sets up a strong day. good, because you are not. there's a reason you have 6 hours of pool time a week. and if you are hitting all other training objectives and trust your coach and the plan, there is absolutely no reason you should change your point of view. your swim fitness will also carry over to the other two sports as well. so, you have hit the absolute peak of your swim potential? swim as little or as much as you want. However, I would think 3+ hours of swimming would yield better results than 2 hours of swimming.....but I could be wrong. Of course, you have to be able to hit your other workouts and I wouldnt sacrafice biking/running time since you are always one of the first out of the water. If thats the case, I see your point. I noted the bolded quote as well, and can only say for me, the more I swim, the better I do in races and the fresher I feel coming out of the water. I can tell when my swimming drops, even when I end up at th FOP of the swim. I may not gain that many places (since there are less to gain there anyway), but I feel better. That's just for me |
| 2009-07-28 3:24 PM in reply to: #2311064 |
Master 1790 Tyler, TX | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? I think it all just comes down to the "race your strength, train your weakness" idea. If a strong swimmer has to miss a workout or reduce training hours, he/she is better off missing a swim workout rather than a run or bike workout. Personally I'm in swim maintenance mode (just 2-3 swims per week) most of the year. It's frustrating because I know I should be in the faster lane in Masters workouts, but I can't keep up.  But it's more frustrating to look at my results in the more competitive regional Olys -- virtually everyone in my AG who finishes ahead of me are faster in both the bike and run. The only way I'll beat them (I think) is to train more/smarter on the bike and run.That being said, I'm in my off season already and am enjoying swimming 4-5x per week and feeling like I'm getting a bit faster. I'm still running but not doing much cycling right now.... Brian |
| 2009-07-28 3:40 PM in reply to: #2313228 |
Master 1790 Tyler, TX | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? I noted the bolded quote as well, and can only say for me, the more I swim, the better I do in races and the fresher I feel coming out of the water. I can tell when my swimming drops, even when I end up at th FOP of the swim. I may not gain that many places (since there are less to gain there anyway), but I feel better. That's just for me You may actually be on to something here. My two triathlon races where I feel I performed to the best of my potential came off of fairly good swim training in preparation for two different meets. This year I swam less (didn't enter any swim meets), rode and ran more, but had generally poor results.... Brian |
| 2009-07-29 4:56 PM in reply to: #2311064 |
| Member 92 Ireland | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? I just started the intermediate 26 week SPRINT program as a starting program 2 weeks ago and for the next 2 week the swimming will be at 2:30 in the base building phase. I haven't swam in years, competitively since I was 15 so I find the huge load pretty good in getting my fitness back. |
| 2009-07-29 6:37 PM in reply to: #2311064 |
Extreme Veteran 565 Jenison , MI | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? I voted 75% but I end up doing more most of the time. I go by the yards not the time and it's been really working for me. Getting in about 30,000 yards a month give or take a for 1000. It has taken me from BOP to the top ten. My last sprint I was ranked 7th out of 405. Of course my run and bike are slow so that did not last long. lol |
| 2009-07-29 7:14 PM in reply to: #2311064 |
Champion 6046 New York, NY | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? well I swim 3 hours per week, but that puts me at about 7500 yards per week as I am not as fast as you |
| 2009-07-29 9:49 PM in reply to: #2316175 |
Champion 10471 Dallas, TX | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? TriToy - 2009-07-29 7:14 PM well I swim 3 hours per week, but that puts me at about 7500 yards per week as I am not as fast as you Hey, we all have our own speed.  I guess that's why I struggle with the training plan- out of a book- telling me to do 3 hours a week. That plan is very general for everyone... and thus it doesn't take into account how fast I go in the time they have allotted. I have the same issue with the running- if I need to run 3 hours a week... I don't know if the training plan was created for someone running a 6 minute mile, or someone running a 10 minute mile. There's a big different there. I am hitting the run time as it is laid out, but I convert it to miles. 45 minutes = 5 miles... 60 minutes = 6 miles... so on. |
| 2009-07-31 12:33 PM in reply to: #2312322 |
Expert 939 Tulsa | Subject: RE: Self-coached, using a training plan from BT/website/book- Who does ALL the swim training? Lol I swim maybe once a week. Before the last month or so i was swimming a few times a month. It's just so dang BORING!!!! Back and fourth, back and fourth. Even if i break it down and have shorter goals for the swim i just can't get to the pool more than 2 hours a week and that isn't swimming time. I swim like 30-45 min each session. For me cutting 20 min off my swim is much harder than 20 min off my bike or run. I should be able to swim a 1:20 with absolutely no swimming and come out of the water feeling great. I am by no means a swimmer so all this 3-6 hours training even for an IM is just crazy. |
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