Do I take the job?

 For me, work is all about helping me enjoy all the other parts of my life. I'd think the predictable hours, shorter commute, and lack of travel would make training easier.

Oh, and this:

A group of engineers are sitting around at a party, discussing the nature of the God.

The mechanical engineer states that God must be a mechanical engineer because "if you look at all the pulleys and levers that drive the body, how the tendons and muscles and bones all work together, well, it's just amazing."

The chemical engineer says that no, God has to be a chemical engineer because "if you look at all the chemical processes that drive the body, how the hormones and the brain and the glands and everything else all interact, well, it's just astounding."

The electrical engineer says that no, God has to be an electrical engineer because "if you look at the circuitry of the body, how the thousands upon millions of nerve cells transmit signals from one part to another, well, it boggles the mind."

The civil engineer speaks up last of all and says, no, God is definitely a civil engineer, because "only a civil engineer would run a sewer through a playground. "

I think this will fall into the personal preference category and those things that are more important to you.

To me personally, the commute savings would be more than enough to switch jobs, as long as you get a good vibe from the department where you will be working for the city.  If i like my immediate supervisor and most of the people that you will interact with, i would put up with somewhat repetitive work in order to cut my commute and have the added benefit of job security.

When you do the math of the commute time, you would be saving 104 hours a year, more than 4 days, of being stuck inside your car....That to me has a big price.

If you move, it eliminates your commute issue.

It all completely depends on which cons are worse for you and which pros are best for you.  For me the con of joining a union trumps EVERYTHING else, just out of principle alone.  But for many that is preferable to non-union.  I would stay where you're at if I were you, but that is MY value system, not yours.

The real question to me is which one of the pros/cons is better/worse for you?  Objectively they seem to even out.  So I understand your quandary.  Maybe go for which one you'll look forward to working at most each day (nicest people, best boss, etc....)?

It depends on what you value.  But I saw that the pay is a 6% cut for the first year.  Does your current company pay for the fuel to commute or give you a company vehicle to drive.  If not how much would you save on vehicle cost and maintenance.  Then balance that with the other expenses you mention.  You might have a net gain and in a year be well ahead from a money perspective. 

What if the current company gives you a "crash pad" so you could reduce the drive? I had a job with a 100 mile drive to work and it got old quick but with a crash pad to stay at 2-3 nights a week it made it easier.

Thanks everyone.

Someone mentioned moving - problem is, I love where I live (Niagara Falls area) and moving closer to my current job means moving closer to Toronto.  That means the real estate prices are more than double where I am now, unless I want to move into a small bachelor condo...I know that's not even an option.

Yeah, it's hard to get a feel of the new co-workers/boss based on a 2 hour interview.  Everyone is on their best behavior in those.  I also know the union thing sucks, but unfortunately it's not optional for the position.

long commutes make people unhappy.

3hrs a day?  sitting in a car?  Might as we

congrats on all the job offers tho'. 

^^ This hits the points that came to mind for me.

My wife has a 50 mile per day commute, peanuts to most, but pretty long for around here. The mileage on her car goes up so fast it is crazy! Every time I turn around I need to do some routine maintenance on the thing. She wants a nice new car but it makes no sense because of the amount of miles she puts on in a year. Those costs can really add up.

I don't think I could deal with a 3 hour commute for very long. That is a long time in the car. Takes a lot of free time away from other things. Also around here people act like idiots on the road, that is a long time to share the road with a bunch of morons every day. 

That said, I have had a government job before, it is not exciting, the people are there for the security and the paycheck, not because they love their job (in my experience). But a lot can be said for good steady pay and benefits. 

Personally I work to live rather than live to work. Work is something I have to do so I can do the things that I want to do and live the way I want to live. So for me, I would most likely take the job closer to home so I wasn't wasting so much of my time getting to and from work. I think the only way I could justify that kind of commute is if it were temporary and it was going to further my career and get me to a better place later.

I cant speak as confidently on this point seeing that your in Canada vs. US, but.....

I would be very hisitent to view any position going forward as a "guarantee" or cash for life.   We are just starting to see this in the US where pensions are being changed even for those who have since been retired.   There is no way for some municipalities to continue on the course they are on in terms of benefits post retirement.   I would consider your offers based not on what retirement looks like down the line, but what makes you happy and allows for you to save enough personally to be able to retire comfortably.  My 2 cents anyway.  

Already been said, but what's that 4 hours a day NOT in a car worth to you? Does the 6% pay cut and union dues balance out in commute costs and time available to you?

To me, it's almost a no-brainer.

You can probably do some web searches but the commuting cost is more than just the gas.  The IRS allows about $0.50/mile here in the US, so you could assume your actual commuting costs are around $75/day not including your time.  Also, what will the commute be like in the winter/spring, when roads are icy or snow falls heavily?  You also mentioned that you'd have to travel off-site a fair amount, so how does that factor into the weekly schedule? 

Yea, they only care that the work gets done, so how often will you get the work done in less than 6-8 hours versus 10-12 hours?  A 3-hour commute on top of a 10 hour day gets old very quickly. 

Yeah, I'm commuting to Oakville/Mississauga (stones throw of the Ford plant) from Port.  Prior to that it was Hamilton but it was closer to Stoney Creek so it only took me 50 mins which was liveable.  The new job is with the City of St. Catharines.

I'm hedging towards the new job right now.  Although the current guys will be very disappointed and I hate doing that to them.  Like I said, they've been good so far.  I'm trying to make myself hate them right now saying "push comes to shove and they were having a hard time making the share holders happy, they wouldn't think twice of letting me go".  I know, kinda of lame..lol.

PC to SC vs PC to Oakville/Mississauga? That's a no brainer. They're practically the same town! Now, if it was Fort Erie I would understand being torn...

I worked in Welland, Port Colborne, Niagara Falls, St. Catherines and occasionally Fort Erie. I loved St. Catherines.

I know it's just what people get used to, but it boggles my mind how anyone can consider a 3 hour commute "worth it". After your time and gas that 6% is a pay raise. My time is not free. That extra two hours you spend in your car is 20% of your work day. That's 20% you are not getting paid for, and we have not even added up gas and wear and tear on your car. 6% pay cut is a 20% pay raise in my book.

Obviously it does not matter if you do not like the job you are offered, but it sounds like it's a wash to you... in that case it isn't even close for me.

As always though... you need to be very clear on compensation. We hear what we want in interviews. Once you get in it isn't always what the "brochure" said it was going to be.... meaning it might be the 6% cut now... but a garantee of more in a year, hard to beleive in our current climate... especially for a municipality. A pay freeze is not unheard of.

Maybe I missed something . . . but didn't you just take your current position in May?

I know several people have a problem with the commute, but I'd have a problem with quitting after two months. 

I know when I'm interviewing, I pay close attention to the dates of positions listed on the resume.

We work to live, not live to work. 15hrs a week commuting to and from work is like having another part time job. I cant imagine that. My vote would be to stay local and with the security of the government. You will take a pay cut for the first year but after that its the same. I think that the money you save on gas and time you save commuting will be greater then the 6% of salary you are loosing.

Oh the horror.

Two jobs to pick from.....

I wouldn't think a 'government' job is any more secure than another anyway. And who says your neighbors won't vote you out of it at the next election when there are cutbacks?

I DREAM of being presented with two good job offers at the same time....

I don't get your point - I would consider it a major failing if one of my managers fired somebody they had hired two months ago (though, not the firing as much as the hiring choice). 

Good businesses don't fire people willy-nilly.  If there's a short term need they'll use a staffing agency.  Otherwise, hiring decisions are taken very seriously and made for the long term.

All this shows me is someone willing to hop the fence the moment a slightly greener pasture comes into view.

So you'd rather have a pissed off employee(=unproductive) to stay instead of making room someone that will appreciate it more, no matter how long they've been there?

Anyhow, I ended up taking the government job.  And yes it's secure.  I don't know how things work in the US, but here once you're in the union it's extremely difficult to get rid of you.  I've seen the stupidest government employee in the pass keep their job even though it wasn't even necessary and they were looking for areas to cutback.