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2008-10-15 6:44 PM

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Subject: Swim - Breath

Do you breath every 2 or 3 strokes?

I'm training with a 3 strokes breathing but I find it very hard. Does it really matter? 



2008-10-15 6:54 PM
in reply to: #1745492

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
Man, I must be slow I breath every single stroke.
2008-10-15 6:57 PM
in reply to: #1745492

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
I find 2 easier, but I tend to breath too fast for everything. Once I have a more reliable place to swim I will try to slow down and establish a 3 stroke breath. The only real problem with 2 stroking is that you need to shift from breathing primary side (right for me) to breathing 2ndary side (left for me) every so often to give your primary shoulder a break or you develop overuse issues of the one shoulder. Using a 3 stroke count avoids this so that you just alternate sides you breath on every 3 strokes. Also, most folks go straighter with 3 stroke breathing as breathing on one side tends to push (or is it pull) you one way or the other.

I am at altitude so this may have some effect my breathing rate and I need to build endurance and probably swim slower until my fitness matches the speed I want to go without increasing my heart rate out of zone 1-2, at least for the long swims (not talking speed drills here).

My inexperienced 2 coppers.
2008-10-15 7:00 PM
in reply to: #1745530

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Sensei
Sin City
Subject: RE: Swim - Breath

Depends.  If I'm hauling, I need a breath on every other stroke (every time I lift my right arm).

If I'm in cruise mode, it's every fourth stroke (every OTHER time I lift my right arm).

If I'm in between, I do one of two things.  Take a breath on the 4th stroke, then the second, then the 4th, and so on.  It's sort on an odd pattern, but seems to work for me.  OR, I breath on every 3 stroke (right and breath, left, right, left and breath, right, left, right and breath) and so on..

2008-10-15 7:09 PM
in reply to: #1745492

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath

The only thing that matters is that you are getting sufficient air (or expelling sufficient CO2).  2, 3, whatever works for you.

That said, sometimes better to train on 3, or even 5 on occasion, but I generally train and race on 2

2008-10-15 7:38 PM
in reply to: #1745530

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath

wirelessness - 2008-10-15 7:54 PM Man, I must be slow I breath every single stroke.

You must look hilarious in the water.....have you ever kinked your neck or died from inhaling water? or are you just really good at it?



2008-10-15 7:52 PM
in reply to: #1745492

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
I do every 3, 5 or 7.  So I can see both sides.  Takes awhile to get used to whichever side is more awkward.
2008-10-15 10:05 PM
in reply to: #1745492

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
i always train every 3 but when raceday comes, it starts as every 2 until i can get my heartrate down and get into my rhythm.
2008-10-15 10:11 PM
in reply to: #1745560

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
ChrisM - 2008-10-15 7:09 PM

The only thing that matters is that you are getting sufficient air (or expelling sufficient CO2).  2, 3, whatever works for you.

That said, sometimes better to train on 3, or even 5 on occasion, but I generally train and race on 2

What Chris said.

I train and race on 2.  When in the pool, I always breathe to the same side of the pool.  So I'm on the right on one length, then coming back I'm on the left.  It's important to be able to breathe from both sides for a few reasons:

1.  To be able to use a shoreline for sighting

2.  Direction of the waves

3.  The ability to get air when you need it

The ability to breathe every three strokes constantly is nice, but being comfortable breathing to either side whenever you need to is what's really important.

2008-10-15 10:12 PM
in reply to: #1745492

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
I breath every stroke I guess... I've never swam competively but I swam a 31:38 1500M in a crazy lane tonight breathing on every right stroke.
2008-10-15 10:17 PM
in reply to: #1745560

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
ChrisM - 2008-10-15 8:09 PM

The only thing that matters is that you are getting sufficient air (or expelling sufficient CO2).  2, 3, whatever works for you.

That said, sometimes better to train on 3, or even 5 on occasion, but I generally train and race on 2

Chris...as I respect your opinion a lot...I swam a 1500M in  a crowded lane (got smacked in the head, floaters, doggy-paddlers, swam underneath someone) in 31:38 in a 25m pool, and I breathe every time I take a right stroke....do I need a coach?  I want to break 10:00 per 500m, and the closest I've come so far is 10:05.

 



2008-10-15 10:24 PM
in reply to: #1745983

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
kagoscuba - 2008-10-15 10:17 PM
ChrisM - 2008-10-15 8:09 PM

The only thing that matters is that you are getting sufficient air (or expelling sufficient CO2).  2, 3, whatever works for you.

That said, sometimes better to train on 3, or even 5 on occasion, but I generally train and race on 2

Chris...as I respect your opinion a lot...I swam a 1500M in  a crowded lane (got smacked in the head, floaters, doggy-paddlers, swam underneath someone) in 31:38 in a 25m pool, and I breathe every time I take a right stroke....do I need a coach?  I want to break 10:00 per 500m, and the closest I've come so far is 10:05.

 

Not Chris, but what helped me lower my times were

1.  Swimming more.  More times per week and longer sessions

2.  Drills to nail down form

3.  Speeeeeeed work.  One of my roughest swims had a 20x50 sprint set in it.  Then there's the ever popular 12x100 set.  Ugh.

2008-10-15 11:00 PM
in reply to: #1746002

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
sesh - 2008-10-15 8:24 PM
kagoscuba - 2008-10-15 10:17 PM
ChrisM - 2008-10-15 8:09 PM

The only thing that matters is that you are getting sufficient air (or expelling sufficient CO2).  2, 3, whatever works for you.

That said, sometimes better to train on 3, or even 5 on occasion, but I generally train and race on 2

Chris...as I respect your opinion a lot...I swam a 1500M in  a crowded lane (got smacked in the head, floaters, doggy-paddlers, swam underneath someone) in 31:38 in a 25m pool, and I breathe every time I take a right stroke....do I need a coach?  I want to break 10:00 per 500m, and the closest I've come so far is 10:05.

 

Not Chris, but what helped me lower my times were

1.  Swimming more.  More times per week and longer sessions

2.  Drills to nail down form

3.  Speeeeeeed work.  One of my roughest swims had a 20x50 sprint set in it.  Then there's the ever popular 12x100 set.  Ugh.

What Sesh said ( I LOVE that avatar......)

I focused on 1 and 3, I do some drills during warmup, but not much.  

Coach?  I think maybe a coach for one or two sessions, but a much better option if you have it available is a masters class.  You'll be pushed like never before, and you can work your way up the ranks and join a faster lane for certain sets to challenge yourself.   SOunds like you swim at a Y?  is there a class there?

And speed is IMHO very important.  More specifically, consistent speed over a set.  If you can do that 12 x 100 on a fairly fast interval and hold each 100 within a couple seconds at a challenging pace, you'll see improvements.  We just did a 16 x 100 set on a pretty fast interval for me and I consider it a benchmark set against which all future sets will be measured.  Over the last few years (swimming speed comes slowly.....) I've gone from 1:40 100 intervals to 1:20

2008-10-15 11:16 PM
in reply to: #1745623

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
Jyles16 - 2008-10-15 7:38 PM

wirelessness - 2008-10-15 7:54 PM Man, I must be slow I breath every single stroke.

You must look hilarious in the water.....have you ever kinked your neck or died from inhaling water? or are you just really good at it?

I guess I'm counting strokes incorrectly.  I breath every time I my right arm comes out of the water, which I'm learning is every 2 strokes.  Sometimes I alternate to every time my left arm comes out of the water to try to not overuse the one side but I'm not as good on that side.  This is why I love this forum...I learn something every time I log on!

2008-10-16 12:15 AM
in reply to: #1745492

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath

I've been training every two with 4 or 6 thrown in when I feel like it.  I sometimes blow out my air and simulate missing a breath so I can get used to that too.  I've recently learned that getting used to hypoxia is a very good thing.

I absolutely plan to race breathing every second stroke.  You never know when you're going to get a wave in the face when you're looking for air and I'm not waiting 6 or 8 strokes for my next breath.

2008-10-16 12:45 AM
in reply to: #1745492

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Houston
Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
Less breathing = more efficiency.

It is definitely worth striving for 3 stroke breathing because it not only balances your stroke (less wiggling in the water), but taking a breath literally creates more water resistance.


2008-10-16 12:49 AM
in reply to: #1745492

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath

I suck at breathing. I actually don't really understand why , although I'm definitely new to swimming. My form isn't terrible (14-15 strokes/25m), but I pretty much need a breath every other stroke to keep going at a reasonable clip. It's strange, because aerobically, I'm fairly strong (18:00 5k), and my arms NEVER get tired at my enduro swim pace, but I just need to keep on sucking for air. Will keep working on it.

 

2008-10-16 6:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath

Every 2 strokes for me, but I train on both sides just in case I am forced to breath on my other side.  I find every 3rd stroke to be just a tad bit too long of an exhale for me so I went with 2 and it has worked out great.  Like most people here, don't go with what we do, go with what your body is most comfortable with and become more efficient.

2008-10-16 6:55 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath

wirelessness - 2008-10-15 4:54 PM Man, I must be slow I breath every single stroke.

 

X2, I would die if I could not breath every stroke.

2008-10-16 7:44 AM
in reply to: #1746333

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath

pengy - 2008-10-16 12:45 AM Less breathing = more efficiency. It is definitely worth striving for 3 stroke breathing because it not only balances your stroke (less wiggling in the water), but taking a breath literally creates more water resistance.

Efficient breathing=more efficiency

2,3,4,5 and so on is perfectly ok.  The ability to do all, even if just for a short time is excellent.  I also fail to see how breathing makes you wiggle or creates more drag.  If that's the case, you are breathing wrong.

2008-10-16 8:20 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
If I'm relaxed I do 3 or 5 stokes but if I'm pushing that I need more air and go with 2 strokes with one 3 stroke to change sides


2008-10-16 8:26 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
Depends. I might start my warmup breathing once per length, then once every five strokes, then every three, and eventually two. Unless I'm in a (pool swimming) sprint race, I'll breathe whenever my body tells me to. Which is normally every two strokes.
I used to get shoulder pain on my left side because I was only breathing to the right. It went away after the first few weeks of my junior year swim season. No problems since... but I'll occasionally make an effort to RB2 on my left side for a while.

If you have good rotation and breathing technique then your breathing pattern shouldn't make a large difference in speed in a triathlon. Listen to your lungs.
2008-10-16 11:10 AM
in reply to: #1746576

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Houston
Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
sesh - 2008-10-16 7:44 AM

pengy - 2008-10-16 12:45 AM Less breathing = more efficiency. It is definitely worth striving for 3 stroke breathing because it not only balances your stroke (less wiggling in the water), but taking a breath literally creates more water resistance.

Efficient breathing=more efficiency

2,3,4,5 and so on is perfectly ok.  The ability to do all, even if just for a short time is excellent.  I also fail to see how breathing makes you wiggle or creates more drag.  If that's the case, you are breathing wrong.



Explain to me, if perfect breathing technique means you will not slow down at all, why in a 50 sprint college+ level swimmers will hardly breathe or not breathe at all.

It does effect your stroke. Granted it may not be a whole lot, but when doing 350yds - 2.4 miles, it adds up. Obviously if you need air, breathe, but you will be an over all better swimmer if you strive to do a 3 count or even a 4.
2008-10-16 11:28 AM
in reply to: #1747153

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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath
pengy - 2008-10-16 10:10 AM
...

It does effect your stroke. Granted it may not be a whole lot, but when doing 350yds - 2.4 miles, it adds up. Obviously if you need air, breathe, but you will be an over all better swimmer if you strive to do a 3 count or even a 4.

I think becoming a more efficient swimmer lets you breath on every 3rd, 4th, or more strokes, but it doesn't work the other way. Holding your breath longer doesn't make you more efficient, it only makes you want to be more efficient.

That said, I understood 3 stroke breathing to be a desirable goal when I started swimming and forced myself to do it as much as I could. It eventually got easier. Then I started trying to breath for longer distances only on my off side. It eventually got easier.

I usually train now with 3 stroke breathing, sometimes more strokes per breath but rarely. For shorter races, I'll use 2 stroke breathing on whichever side is convenient. For longer races, like an IM in August, I kept the effort easy enough to stay with 3 stroke breathing.

Edit: I understand that sprinters are marginally faster when not breathing but that margin is insignificant when talking about the efficiency of most triathletes.


Edited by Micawber 2008-10-16 11:39 AM
2008-10-16 11:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Swim - Breath

pengy - 2008-10-16 11:10 AM

Explain to me, if perfect breathing technique means you will not slow down at all, why in a 50 sprint college+ level swimmers will hardly breathe or not breathe at all.

Because they don't have to, especially in an anaerobic event.  Besides, what does the breathing pattern of a 50 yard sprint have to do with triathlon swimming?  There is not a triathlete on this planet that swims a half mile at the speed of college level sprinter.  If three strokes is "correct" then there are a ton of elite triathletes doing it wrong.  In fact, there were some swimmers doing the 800m in the Olympics doing it wrong.  If there is a "slow down" with breathing in the water, it is completely negligible at distance.  Maybe at the sprint speed it matters, but not at distance.

But yeah, you'll be an overall better swimmer if you strive for three or four stroke breathing.  Then when you get to that point, you start trying to go faster, until you get to the point where you have to breathe every two again.  Then you try to increase your oxygen efficiency to the point where you can go three or four again.  Then you try and go faster... and so on.  When it's time to race, you do what's comfortable for yourself and what gets you out of the water the fastest and most efficiently.  For the majority of triathletes it's two strokes.  Doesn't mean that applies to everyone, that's just the largest sample.

 



Edited by sesh 2008-10-16 11:50 AM
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