Ethics...switching over to the competitor

thats gonna be tough, nice on the $$, tough to explain to existing customers.  unless you can explain somehow that you were exploring the other companies products/ services and believed they were better and they would allow you to service their needs better.

I think the additional salary and signing bonus is really a payout for you to bring your client list with you.  Does your current employer have anything in your contract prohibiting this?  Does your state have any laws for/against non compete clauses?  California basically does not honor non compete agreements.

What I like to remind myself is that it is a small world and if you are perceived as screwing over your current company, you never know when you will run into them when you need a job or promotion.  Karma can be nasty.

Take it. If you were selling right, you were offering your prospects & clients your company's strengths vs. competitor's weaknesses. Simply explain to them if you go that you are able to now offer XXX which is better than what they has previously.

Before that though, don't be suprised if your existing company counter offers. They should and don't feel bad about it. I am sure you bring great return to the company and the competitor already realized this.

Good luck...

I have to agree here. I would be telling your management about your offer and see what the response is. You may be surprised (one way or another) and the decision might become easier.

My company does have a non-compete. I have heard some nasty letters get sent but basically nothing they can do to California residents. 

I am not sure about the idea of alerting management.  It may come off wrong.  I mean I really wasn't seeking alternative employment, I am happy here...it's just that they contacted me.  I actually just got a raise last month.

I also agree its a ploy to bring back market share.  A few years ago they had the edge, but now I have doubled and taken most of there business.  I am leaning more towards pass...but it's tough to leave that kind of cash on the table.

I think it should be noted that he has no offer to lay out.

As a recruiter, I advise against informing management at this time. If you want them to offer you a counteroffer, it's best to wait until you actually have an offer in hand for them to counter. That way no matter how things go, you have a job either way. 

Wow, if this is true, then your company will likely do what it can to keep you. Bring it up and just let your boss know that they contacted you and this was their offer, then say, "There's no way I would accept their offer ...." and sell yourself up a little bit. See what happens.

X2. Don't burn the bridge and just leave. Let them know and see if they are willing to match, or at least come close. 

Financial institutions do it all the time.  Wooing away employees is a legitimate tactic.  If the company the you're working for wants to keep you, they should pay you what you're woryh.  You're in the enviable position of knowing someone values you more than the company you're currently working for.  I'd use that to either negotiate a better deal for yourself where you are now or, if you're afraid they absolutely won't match or beat the offer and instead take steps to retain your clients, take the offer.  Really it's up to you.  There's nothing particularly noble about business loyalty.

Edited by Johners 2010-02-10 10:56 PM

Good advice here. If they offer you something, then maybe you go to your current employer. Nothing wrong with saying you were approached and weren't out actively looking. As for the products and ethics, heck, you're a salesman, right?

I think it depends in part on what you were selling, and what sales tactic you were using. I avoid drug reps for the most part these days but when I was more open to seeing them, they often would try to tell me how much better their drug was than the competitor. If one of them went to a direct competitor (as opposed to, say, going from selling antidepressants to blood pressure meds), I would probably have a field day.  OTOH, one of the reasons I stopped seeing drug reps is that I never really bought into their lines of arguments, and think the studies they show me are self-selected and slanted.

If you truly believe in the product you are selling, and sell it on its own merits, ethically, I don't see why you would be tempted.  If your competitor has made some sort of improvements that address what you perceived to be their weaknesses, it can't hurt to look. And if you are really just selling your product because you are good at sales, and have no true belief in the superiority of your product, well, I suppose that (cynically) makes you a salesperon. Surely if your selling point has been to bash the competition, they must know that your credibility would be compromised when you go to your old customer base, and it may not be worth as much as it seems on the surface. (unless the product is very expensive, and you only need to convince a couple of people to make a switch)

If yo go on the interview, I would decide ahead of time what it would take to jump ship.  And then perhaps push the issue of what you perceive to be their weak areas.  Maybe you will learn something that helps the decision.  Unless you are really considering taking their offer, I think using it to leverage more money from your current job is risky - they might decide not to do so, and if you stay anyway, you lose some credibility the next time.  And if you do bail just for the prinicple, you might hate the new job and regret the choice.

This is a tough one... you need to assess the situation with your current company; are they paying you what you are worth and how loyal are they to YOU... most likely, if think long and hard, you will come to the conclusion that business climate today means that they will not look out for your best, but rather for their own best (which hopefully will be the same as yours, but don't count on it).

I.e. you only get so many chances in life to make a big change and it does sound like this could be one of them... you owe it to yourself to at least explore the possibility by scheduling an interview.

I'm living this problem right now (but more of a customer to supplier position).  I took the money and the position.  My old company was not happy I left and then did an internal audit to make sure I didn't do anything unethical before I left.  My old friends have dropped me like a stone.

As is well however, because now I have new friends and a very rapidly growing company with many new opportunities.  To get where I am now would have taken another 5-7 yrs at the old place.

I'd say go on an interview and dig a little further you never know what you'll find.  As for your customers, unless you were bashing your competitors they will understand.  Besides they were buying probably because of you and your relationship so I'm sure they will in the future too.

As an MBA student, I am interested to see how this turns out.

As devils advocate (and honest)

Lie... sort of.

Morals are for sale. Take the 50k more, put the kids through college, buy a new bike, sleep easy.
Want it justified, tell your customers this:

"I took a closer look at the competitor, and I realized there was a lot more to them (like the fact they are paying me a lot more money) then I originally believed. You should re-evaluate your position as well."

IMO, the question that hasn't been asked is what do YOU think about changing jobs.  How happy are you in your current job?  You state that you are happy there, will $50k make you happier for the competitor?  Does this job provide you opportunity/growth that your current job doesn't?  Is there anything appealing (other than money) working for the competitor?


I recently went through a similar process.  Our #2 left for another agency and offered me a job making about 40% more than I am currently making.  I got all kinds of excited about making that much more money and assuming a better lifestyle as a result of my hard work.  In the end, for me, it was all ego driven.  I was letting potential earnings cloud my judgments.  The job did present growth opportunities but so does my current job.  I had to ask myself did I want to start back over building a new network of people, dealing with those headaches, whereas, I have gained the trust and confidence of my current network.  In the end, I didn't think it was the best fit for me.  I humbly called her and turned down the position.  And despite my management knowing about the situation, I did not ask them to consider matching or adjusting my salary. 

I have never been in this situation, so my opinions have nothing to really stand on, but here's what comes to mind:

The signing bonus aside, $50 is more than I make in a year... with 2 jobs.  I don't get a bonus or pay increase of any kind.  Just the standard 'cost of living', which is a joke but in this economy, I'm happy to be employed. 

If I did, as you said you did, 'doubled and taken most of their business', I would see it as a challenge and try to do the same for the other guy against your current company.  Who knows, you could become the guru for you industry.  I'm not sure what you do for a living but if you can offer your current clients a better rate, or at least not more, I don't see why they would leave, if they are happy with you. 

As someone stated before, take care of your family - put the kids through college.  However, if you're working somewhere that will offer you a $50k pay increase and a signing bonus, you don't need anymore money to pay for college.  Do you care more for your family than your company?  If you have kids, what do you want them to learn out of this? 

This probably made it harder.  Good luck!

Um...is this going to be legal?  We had a sales guy defect to our top competitor and he has since been sued to death.  He had access to confidential technology, pricing, and business strategy information. 

Same competitor tried to recruit me (and other engineers) with the same offers - huge bonus, etc, they were looking to steal our technology developments, pay us off, and then retire us.

A company that will do that has questionable ethics in the first place - you sure you want to work there?

We were hiring last month and I know a woman from our competitor who would have LOVED what we offered. She could have gone to part-time, worked from home instead of full time and on-site. With a new baby, I'd bet she would have run to us.

But, our owner specifically asked me not to talk with her because of the ethics.

Like cheating spouses, you'll always have to wonder if he/she left the first one to be with you or if they're chronically disloyal and will do the same to you as soon as the chance arises.

You don't want to be "that guy".

This user's post has been ignored.

Never accept a counteroffer.  At that point they know you have considered going to work for someone else.  They will never have the same trust of you as they did before.  They may start looking to replace you.

A better strategy is to get the other offer then approach your current company and ask them for a raise.  Show them you are worth the extra money.  Do NOT mention the other offer.  Do not threaten to leave.  If they refuse you simply turn in your notice. 

This article has some other reasons why you should not accept a counter offer:

http://www.thewisdomjournal.com/Blog/10-reasons-i-wont-accept-a-job-counter-offer/







Edited by TriRSquared 2010-02-11 2:37 PM