Good at swim and bike but terrible at run

Run does not equal cycling. 

Not everyone has the same capabilities. 

If you want to run better, run more.  You can compare your times to those you race against, but you can't compare how much you need to train to go a certain speed, over a certain distance relative to what others need to do to go that same speed & distance (or, more accurately, you can but you won't find a perfect correlation).

The fact that you can swim & bike to the top 25% means you can probably get much closer than top 50% with proper training AND pacing (remember, the run in a tri is AFTER the swim & bike--your lack of training there impacts how fast you can run as much or more than your stand-alone run fitness and may account for why those focused cyclists end up running faster than you).

I have had 3-4 month periods where I have run 5x per week. Weekly mileage was only 20-25 but I am only training for sprints and oly's.

I know most people on this forum will say you have to put in a lot more miles than that to run quickly. But a lot of the people I know and race against run similar amounts to me yet are a good 8-10 minutes quicker than me over a 10k. And as I said, I know people who never train the run at all yet are still quicker than me when they occasionally race. 

You're comparing apples and oranges.  Stop it.  It will only disappoint you when you bite into the apple expecting to taste an orange.

Have your times gotten faster?  If so, great, keep it up.  If not, look at your training/racing and change something.

Completely agree.  Compare your 10k times to your own times.  If you are getting faster, then you are doing it right.  If you are not, then back to the drawing board, so to speak.  

Seems odd. Have you improved since you started?

Also, could weight be an issue? Extra lbs will effect people a lot more on the run than the bike.

I'm in a similiar situation except that I'm not much of a swimmer either.

The most common thing I hear on the run as people pass me?  "Strong bike!"  

I spent the entire winter between my first and second seasons completely focused on the run.  And when season two came around, it did show.  My bike didn't suffer and even though I was still bottom 25% on the run, I wasn't last in my age group anymore.  Progress!  It still sucked to watch friends who ran a lot less than me, beat me on the run...but whatever.  My legs are short (that's my excuse and I'm stickin' to it!).

I know what you are saying and it is frustrating, but as others have said, you really can't compare yourself to others.  Everyone is built differently.  We all have different skills.   The best you can do is compare yourself to yourself.  If you are improving, then celebrate and keep it up.

THis is an excellent point!  I am great at the swimming, usually fall behind on the bike (definitely my weakest event), and have to make it back up on the run.  Running is my strongest, so I am usually pacing myself up to the run.  I never compare myself to anyone, it can defeat you mentally before you even start.  

I agree, find a plan for your skill level and work it.  There are some great ones out there!  

Yup, I know exactly what you mean, as I'm usually 1st/2nd out of the water, 5th on the bike (and only overtaken by tri-bikes), but plodding slow on the run (31-33 mins for 5k), coming in 5th/6th overall in my AG (of 15-20).  In my case, I know I'm carrying extra pounds (15-20 lb), which I'm oh-so-slowly getting rid of (although I've lost 70lb so far ), but yes I know how frustrating it is. I know I can just creep under 30 mins for a stand-alone 5k, but I can't match that pace at the end of a tri.   

However, I'm not setting my sights very high for running, just aiming to become a faster-tortoise!  My times were steadily getting better at the end of last year (10.30 min/miles to 9.20 min/miles) as I was slowly upping my mileage (10% at a time) from 3 to 6 miles (running twice a week with one shorter 5k run with an increasingly longer run at the weekends).  So for me I found that increasing my mileage was making me faster.  However, IT band problems messed everything up in December and I'm slowly recovering from that now, but back up to running 3.5 miles again. 

I'm not sure that I will ever truly "enjoy" running (unlike swimming and biking), but it is the only way I can get to that beautiful finishing line in triathlons, so for me it's "my challenge"

I'm in the some boat. At big race I am in the top 25% on the swim and bike and often I am DFL on the run.  For the whole race.  Seriously old women with walkers pass me on the run.  Its not from lack of trying.  In my case I get injured very easily and my run is fragile.  I just have come accept my inner slowness

Suggestions 1-Get a gait analysis 2-see a PT or some such person to address any potential muscle imbalances or gait abnormalites that may be holding you back 3- try a run coach  4- spped work with a run coach 5-MORE is not always the answer

I didn't see this asked but ..

How does your triathlon 5 or 10k compare to your open 5k/10k?  I'm often guilty of riding the bike too hard.  I like to go fast and drop the (proverbial) hammer and then I pay for it dearly on the run.

Sprint this past weekend I expected to run 23-24 off the bike but ended up running 27 and I'm 99% sure I know why, I just won't learn :D

The key to running is to put in the mileage.  When I was a runner only, I consistently ran 40+ miles per week, for a good solid 6 years.

Now, I completely realize that 40+ miles per week is tough for Triathletes to do given all the other hours required for bike and swim training (unless you're training for an IM in which case you better be pounding the pavement bigtime).  I know my run mileage has dropped off the face of the earth since I started Tri-training.  But if you really want to get faster on the run you'll need to get the mileage up and keep at it week after week.  Mostly easy, some harder.

Bill

I don't see this either. More running will help to get faster, but it doesn't help with utilizing one's ability more effectively.

We all have our crosses to bear, except maybe the phenomenally gifted. In my typical races, I'm one of the top 5%-10% (including guys) on the swim and run, and barely MOP on the bike. In my last race, out of 150 women, I was 4th on the swim, 1st on the run by a lot, and 30th on the bike. AG (40-49) was even worse--1st on swim and run, 12th on bike (out of 43). That's not even top 25%. Ugh. If I could get even within the top 10 on the bike in most races, I would crush the women's OA, but I'm nowhere close in a big race. My races all involve coming out in great position (in one case, leading a major race), losing it all, and trying to salvage something.

One would THINK that since running and biking both invove cardio fitness and leg strength, there would be considerable cross-over between the two, but I don't see it. I have an amazing engine, endurance to bike all day, and you'd be hard-pressed to find an extra ounce on me, but I'm just slow on two wheels. I have a colleague who rarely trains with any seriousness except for a few weeks prior to an event, and she can crush me on the bike, even after I've been doing 2-3 race-pace interval workouts a week. We ride similar Trek roadies, so it's not about the bike, in this case.

To be honest, I think there is some genetics at work here, more in bike/run than swim as the latter depends so much on technique and comfort level with OWS. When I compare myself to women of similar speed overall who do much better on the bike, they tend to have much more muscular builds, esp. upper legs and glutes. I'm lean, small-boned and very light on my feet; classic marathoner's build. The leg strength needed to push big gears and get amazing bike speeds just doesn't come naturally, the way a quick, efficient stride doesn't seem to come naturally to others. My only hope is that over time I'll improve a bit, and maybe I'll be better at long distances where endurance becomes more important than speed/power and my lighter weight might be an advantage over the long haul. Maybe you'd be a better runner at iron distances where the speedsters might all be walking!

Two things come into my mind when reading this thread:

Running, unlike cycling and swimming is a weight bearing sport. If you have extra kilos, whether from body fat or upper body muscle mass this will penalize you on the run.

Second, I'd like to think "anyone can run" but there is actually running technique that can make you a more efficient and faster runner. I started barefoot running and improved my time, not because of the barefoot itself but because it forced me into a better running style. Before I could do 10K in just under 60min, certainly training also helped, but one year later I did 10K in 45min. And btw, I love how my run is now silent

In traditional running shoes it is difficult not to hit heel first and often with the foot in front of your torso, which takes a lot of speed and energy and putting ankle and knee under extra stress.

Practising mid- or forefoot strike, also known as pose-running, gives a smoother run, saves energy so you can run faster longer.

BEWARE: Changing running style also means that new muscles needs to be trained. You may be relieved of knee and ankle injuries, but another one lurks: stress fracture. This is not a traditional fracture but a significant weakening of the bone, typically the 2nd metatarsal. This happens because when you land on your forefoot muscles in the foot absorb more of the impact, when they get tired, the shock is absorbed by the metatarsal bones. You can't see this on an x-ray just after the injury, only later x-ray will show inflammation around the bones.

So, reduce your running, run less miles when you run, and run fewer times per week, and only slowly work your way up to normal distances - I really mean, running just 1 mile is fine the first week(s). In the beginning it is better to run more frequently than run longer.

Keep in shape with more cycling and swimming. 

BR, Erik

Wow, what a first post  Looking forward to more.  

I am glad you have found a running style that works for you.  But there is simply zero evidence that this is true.

It may be black & white.  But not how you seem to think.

Running and biking use mostly the same muscles in your legs.  You just use them differently (and to different degrees).  Generally, you activate more muscles when running--one reason why running HR > cycling HR (for most).

There an awful lot of very fast cyclists who can run well.  And vice versa.  You named two of them.  I'm pretty sure we could spend all day naming more.  Of course, you have to train both sports well.  Which means you probably can't reach your 'full potential' in either one individually (to do so, you commit all your training time to that sport).  And some people will always be faster than you.  Because of some combination of training and 'natural selection'.  Since all you can control is YOUR training, focus on that aspect.