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2005-10-25 1:14 PM

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Subject: Sex education for middle schoolers
I would like your opinion on this:

I have a great relationship with my 11-year-old son (6th grader) and he talks to me about everything. So, last night, he pulls out this paper and says, "Mom, they gave this to us at school today, but I don't know what it's all about." I look at it, and it's all about sexually transmitted diseases. When I asked him about it who gave it to him, he kind of shrugged his shoulders and said he thought it was the guidance counselor, but he wasn't sure....

So I've been e-mailing with the middle school principle today. I told him that I thought 1) it was inappropriate for the age group and 2) it was distributed without any parental knowlege. Luckily, I have a child who will talk to me about it, but I know that's not necessarily the norm.

He wrote back that they had had reports of 6th graders experimenting with sex and felt that it was appropriate. Again, I wrote back saying that recently, I saw statistics from our local health department showing that about 5% of 8th graders had sex. (I live in a rural community of 9,000 residents.) I had to think that it was closer to 1 or maybe 2% for 6th graders (these are 11 and 12 year olds!!!) and why did they feel the need to talk to 100% of the students who are at varying levels of maturity for the benefit of 1 or 2%? ---and again, without parental knowledge. I got a "political" answer saying that he would take my comments into consideration and talk to the guidance counselor about it.

What do you think? Am I over-reacting here?


2005-10-25 1:26 PM
in reply to: #272142

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Champion
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers

My first concern here is that they gave him a sheet of paper with what sounds like terms and such that beyond his understanding.  Sex Ed is great, and I'm all for it, but it has to be "taught" in such a way as the child can understand and relate to.  Obviously, this was too much too soon for him because he didn't "know what it's all about."

I imagine the other kids who don't have a close relationship with their parents would just toss the sheet of paper without a second thought.  If it's not relevent to their lives, they aren't going to pay any attention.

I'm trying to think back to 6th grade and I'm having a little trouble remembering if I knew of anyone who was sexually active.  I heard stories about the 8th graders, but I can't recall any of my friends talking about sex except in the abstract.  But, we moved the summer after, and I heard stories about fellow 7th graders.  Of course, this was way back before AIDS was considered a threat to anyone who wasn't a gay male (1982-83).

I think you were right to contact the principal.  It's too bad he gave you a non-answer, though.  Perhaps this is something to take up with the School Board?

2005-10-25 1:33 PM
in reply to: #272142

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Science Nerd
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
Interesting that you weren't informed ahead of time. At the middle schools my siblings and I attended, they would send a note home to the parents. The parents had to sign and indicate whether they wanted their kids to go or not. That way they knew what was going on and had the ability to decide if their kids were ready or not. I think I started getting sex ed talks in about 5th grade, actually, and they did the same thing then.

I don't know if there's a harm in trying to teach them in 6th grade, but it doesn't sound like they taught them anything. They didn't really explain anything. I'm not sure what you think would be appropriate or what they taught, so it's hard to say what they should have talked about. I guess you might have overreacted a little bit, but the school certainly didn't do a good job. They should have let you know what was going on ahead of time and given them useful information that they could handle at their age.
2005-10-25 1:54 PM
in reply to: #272142

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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
I suggest you mail a copy of the "South Park The 4th Grade Years" episode where they introduced Sex Ed at all levels of grade school. The boys all thought that girls would give them STD's in the same way that cooties spread on a playground, so they all wore condoms all the time to protect against STD's. it was an awesome episode.

btw when i tell you to send a copy of that show to the school administrator i'm totally lying.
2005-10-25 2:03 PM
in reply to: #272142

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers

Michele,

Objectively: Was your son harmed by receiving this information? What is the downside?

Subjectively: I had sex education in the 6th grade. It didn't hurt me nor did it cause me to want to start having sex (I thought the whole thing sounded disgusting and perverse).

Who cares what we think, though. This is your son. What do YOU think?

2005-10-25 2:16 PM
in reply to: #272142

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
Disclaimer : we had to have signed notes from our parents to go through this stuff.

Pittsburgh Public Schools starts sex ed in 5th grade. Girls learn about periods and what you, boys learn about their stuff in separate classrooms, and then there is a group (co ed) AIDS/HIV discussion (this was late 80's, early 90's).

6th grade we had separate gym/health classes. One entire quarter was given to anatomy(of both genders), STD's, etc etc. 7th grade was the same thing, but with discussions about relationships. 8th grade was a lot of discussion about pregnancy/pregnancy prevention/Baby Think it Over stuff. But nothing was ever HIDDEN. I mean we had anatomically correct charts and graphs and labeling.

still, a good friend of mine had a baby 2 weeks before our 8th grade graduation to another 8th grader.

Throughout high school we got updated information on women's health, pap smears, etc. The entire time, it was stressed, "abstainence is the only 100 percent, but if you're going to do it, this is what will reduce your chances of getting something."

While my parents and I have a great relationship, I wouldn't have felt comfortable asking the questions I got to ask in class. It wasn't usually our gym teacher leading it, it was a health professional. I liked that until high school, it was gender separate too. It made it a lot less awkward for all involved.


2005-10-25 2:18 PM
in reply to: #272213

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Got Wahoo?
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San Antonio
Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
By the 7th grade I was VERY aware of what sex was. Not really about the pleasure, risk of it, but I know that some were doing it and was very curious. Educating that there are dangers involved at that age is not a bad thing, if your child is in a state where he/she can understand it. If you child is not currently curious, he/she soon will be. It's my opinion that if sex were just another facet of life and addressed that way, itx would not be the warping agent it can commonly become (whether through disease, pregnancy or mental issues). Talk and explain what sex is, however you need to color it for your own and your childs sensibilities. Renee is right, you know your son and when to discuss is a decision you and he should discuss. The only concerning thing here (for me) is the shcool didn't notify you and the other parents.
2005-10-25 2:21 PM
in reply to: #272228

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers

Maybe they do this at the middle school age to capture the kids who might be dropping out during their high school years? Sex ed for potential high school dropouts? Give them vital information before they're gone? I dunno.

In 7th grade they put all the girls in a 'health' class and made us feel on a breast model/mannequin to teach us how to check ourselves for breast lumps. I hated it!

Sex ed is what they teach city kids. Rural kids - those that grew up on a farm - could probably teach these classes!



Edited by Renee 2005-10-25 2:22 PM
2005-10-25 2:21 PM
in reply to: #272213

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
I'd say that education and guidance about human sexuality belongs in the home and not in the school. It's a child's parents that need to be the teachers here.

I'd make two exceptions.

The first is if the child is in a private school, religious or secular, and the parents know what the teaching on human sexuality will be going into it.

The second is a biological study of conception and fetal development. I think that study is more appropriate for older children, probably teenagers.

The problem I would have with a study on STD's is that it may also contain someone's idea of a solution to the problem. I'd think that the proposed solution, be it condoms or be it abstinance or anything in between, may not be acceptable to every family.

This is definitely a good place for government to get out of the bedroom, or back seat, or river bank. This issue rightly belongs in the family.


Edited by dontracy 2005-10-25 2:22 PM
2005-10-25 2:27 PM
in reply to: #272240

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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
dontracy - 2005-10-25 3:21 PM

I'd say that education and guidance about human sexuality belongs in the home and not in the school. It's a child's parents that need to be the teachers here.

I'd make two exceptions.

The first is if the child is in a private school, religious or secular, and the parents know what the teaching on human sexuality will be going into it.

The second is a biological study of conception and fetal development. I think that study is more appropriate for older children, probably teenagers.

The problem I would have with a study on STD's is that it may also contain someone's idea of a solution to the problem. I'd think that the proposed solution, be it condoms or be it abstinance or anything in between, may not be acceptable to every family.

This is definitely a good place for government to get out of the bedroom, or back seat, or river bank. This issue rightly belongs in the family.


But at the same time, if we have a family where neither parent ever learned about what an STD is, how it is contracted, what to look for, what a pap smear is, what is normal what is not normal, what happens when kids get to the age of questioning? I know that my parents have no clue what HPV is, how AIDS is contracted/not contracted, what the symptoms of chlymidia are, etc. If my sex ed was left up to them, "don't do it" would have been the end of it. But as we all know, "don't (smoke/drink/cut class)" doesn't always work. But I think having the knowledge of what you're NOT doing is vital. I CHOSE to not have sex because I KNOW what can happen...

so either school or parents need to give up-to-date education, because even since the 90's, the situation has changed.
2005-10-25 2:29 PM
in reply to: #272240

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Got Wahoo?
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers

I agree with you DonTracey, but there is a concern here that many parents are as ignorent as the childern, perhaps worse off as the misconceptions can be worse. For my child, I insist on any sex education being my duty and I am fine with that. The fact is, a JV football coach teaching health is not who I want teaching my child about this type of thing. However, as a society there is some duty to educate children when the parents don't or are incapable of doing it. Teen pregnancy, incurable and fatal diseases and life altering decisions are being made from a complete lack of understanding, and this problem, in my opinion, is at least partially of abstinance only education.

An observation: I don't see the more conservative folks out there saying that religion should be a family only topic... Is the point here that sex should be taught by the family and religion by society? Seems a little backwards as sex is universal and religion varies quite a bit.



2005-10-25 2:33 PM
in reply to: #272240

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers

dontracy - 2005-10-25 2:21 PM I'd say that education and guidance about human sexuality belongs in the home and not in the school.

Why? 

How can you teach human biology without discussing human reproduction and the function of the sex organs?

It is the mission of education to produce responsible citizens. Responsible citizens are responsible with their powerful, creative organs. Shouldn't they learn what these organs are and how they operate?

What about the children of ignorant parents? Sexually repressed parents who are too emotionally stunted to have informative, helpful discussions with their kids? We're supposed to leave kids at the mercy of ignorant parents or parents who are unwilling to teach their kids? I don't think so.

Don, I fully understand that you want to greatly influence how your kids perceive the sex act and that you may want to mold their sexuality within the context of your religious beliefs.

However, as a matter of arming kids with knowledge about their bodies, it's cheating kids to keep this information from them.

2005-10-25 2:39 PM
in reply to: #272254

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Got Wahoo?
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San Antonio
Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
I wonder what she means to say?
2005-10-25 3:13 PM
in reply to: #272262

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
Renee and Welshy, I share your concern for children of "ignorant" or "dysfunctional" parents.

The problem is, who gets to set the standard for a sex education curriculum?

Here's just a short list of issues that probably should be included in a thorough course:

heterosexuality
homosexuality
bisexuality
intercourse
anal sex
oral sex
masterbation
pregnancy
orgasms
miscarriages
abortion
birth control, both abortifacient and non-abortifacient
std's
sterilization
ivf
artificial insemination
abstinance
chastity
celibacy
and on and on

Nearly everyone of the items I listed will be controversial with one group or another. So who gets to decide what is the "correct" way to teach human sexuality?

I agree with you, Welshy, that religion should not be taught in public schools. I'm concerned with the movement that would replace "Evolution" with "Inteligent Design" for example.

But whereas evolution is a scientific fact, the many nuances of human sexuality are not.

So on balance, I'd say there may be more harm that could be done if there was a "state religion" that dictated how children should be taught about sexuality.
2005-10-25 3:27 PM
in reply to: #272297

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Got Wahoo?
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San Antonio
Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
Maybe you are right, but there is no gray area where sexual disease is concerned. Some of the abstinance only recipients might be well served to know that you can contract STD's in the throat. Parents should decide when and under what circumstances to participate in sex, but our educational system should, in my opinion, explain STD's, how you can contract them and the consequenses of getting them.
2005-10-25 3:34 PM
in reply to: #272142

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Northwest Ohio
Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
I will give you a little bit of background. A few years ago, I, along with a few other mothers, had a confrontation with the middle school principle (different man, same school) and the health teacher over the sex education program for 8th graders. We had heard some rumors about what was being taught and one of the moms went and sat through the week of classes in which it was taught to find out first hand. Turns out that the local health department had received a grant to teach “abstinence based” sex education to the middle-schoolers. So the health teacher basically turned her classroom over to this agency for a week. This class involved giving them a book that was somewhat of a how-to manual. But what was most upsetting (to us) was the day on which they talked about birth control. A nurse from the health department came in and passed out condoms to the 8th graders (again, please realize that these are 13-14 year olds. Some are shaving, some barely have hair under their arms). She also passed out spermicide and encouraged them to spray some on their hands “and get comfortable with it.” She then told them that if they ever needed birth control, that they could come up to the health department for condoms no questions asked.

My biggest problem with all of this was that it was being taught without parental knowledge. Parents had NO IDEA what was being taught in this class and if they knew that their children were being encouraged to play with condoms and spermicide in an effort to get them comfortable with it, I doubt if most parents would approve. To make a long story short, they eventually toned down the program so that birth control is discussed, but not played with. They got a different booklet that was less provocative, and best of all, a letter is mailed to the home of each student that gives an outline of the course, day-by-day, so that the parent has the choice of what is right for their child.

I understand that the health department is dealing with the girls who get pregnant every year, so their perception is different than mine. Ironically, according to their own statistics the teen pregnancy rate in our county went up dramatically after they began teaching the course (before the moms got involved). It has since decreased somewhat.

During all of this, we were told that the 6th graders were being taught about their bodies and having respect for themselves, etc. I’m totally okay with the health class talking about how bodies work. But when it comes to sex education, I feel that the parents should at least be informed in advance about what is being taught in the classroom so that they have the opportunity to make a choice about how to discuss it with their child.

That’s why I was shocked to find out that they were discussing STDs with my 11-year-old child. My son knows about sex. But I feel like the information being taught in the school should be more appropriate to their age.


2005-10-25 3:38 PM
in reply to: #272297

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers

Don, I think your list is too thorough, too extensive. I think kids should be taught about human sexual reproduction and sexual anatomy within a Biology class (this is already done with frogs and other animals). I don't believe the middle school should be teaching sexuality (hetero/homo/bi) or sex acts or decisions (oral, anal, abstinence, celibacy, chastisty). Intercourse, pregnancy, miscarriages and orgasm (actually, ejaculation) belong in the Biology curriculum. STD's should be taught within the context of teaching about diseases (Biology?) and how they are spread.

2005-10-25 3:38 PM
in reply to: #272297

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Giver
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers

dontracy - 2005-10-25 3:13 PM

The problem is, who gets to set the standard for a sex education curriculum?

The school boards, which is a great reason for parents to be involved. Go to school board meetings. Talk to your rep. Get on the PTA. Only if you're involved can you be part of the decision-making process. But regardless of what the schools are or aren't teaching, it's up to parents to temper what goes on in the classroom with their own feelings and experiences with the subject.

2005-10-25 3:42 PM
in reply to: #272320

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The Original
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
run4yrlif - 2005-10-25 4:38 PM

dontracy - 2005-10-25 3:13 PM

The problem is, who gets to set the standard for a sex education curriculum?

The school boards, which is a great reason for parents to be involved. Go to school board meetings. Talk to your rep. Get on the PTA. Only if you're involved can you be part of the decision-making process. But regardless of what the schools are or aren't teaching, it's up to parents to temper what goes on in the classroom with their own feelings and experiences with the subject.

Like Jim is saying, teach your children about the wahoo!  He can provide you with pics. if you need them to educate your children!

2005-10-25 3:44 PM
in reply to: #272320

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Northwest Ohio
Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
run4yrlif - 2005-10-25 3:38 PM

dontracy - 2005-10-25 3:13 PM

The problem is, who gets to set the standard for a sex education curriculum?

The school boards, which is a great reason for parents to be involved. Go to school board meetings. Talk to your rep. Get on the PTA. Only if you're involved can you be part of the decision-making process. But regardless of what the schools are or aren't teaching, it's up to parents to temper what goes on in the classroom with their own feelings and experiences with the subject.



That is well said. And like I mentioned in the above post, we felt that one of our "victories" with the 8th grade program is that a course outline is now mailed to each parent prior to the teaching of the course. Then the parent has the option of discussing this information with their child and tempering it however they see fit.
2005-10-25 3:44 PM
in reply to: #272315

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers

Michele, you would be surprised to learn what kids are doing at age 13 and 14. At my 20 year HS reunion one of the guys told me that he first had intercourse with his cheerleader girlfriend at age 13. I was shocked (I was a good-two shoes). Evidently, he was not alone. Kids will have sex at an early age. Shocking, but true.

Nationally, the teen pregnancy rates have increased after the Bush Administration started the abstinance only programs. It's good kids know where they can get condoms, no questions asked.

FWIW, I'm really glad my parents weren't notified when I had sex ed classes; they probably would have pulled me from them.



2005-10-25 3:58 PM
in reply to: #272318

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
Renee - 2

I think kids should be taught about human sexual reproduction and sexual anatomy within a Biology class (this is already done with frogs and other animals)...    STD's should be taught within the context of teaching about diseases (Biology?) and how they are spread.



Yea, I basically agree with you.  Might even go along with teaching about STD's as long as it doesn't turn into  the type of situation that Michele discribed, with kids playing with condoms and spermicide.  From stories that I've read and heard and even experieced myself, that is all too often what hapens. 

I guess there is a line here somewhere between "biology" and "values".  I'm not sure exactly where it is, but it seems to me that in general it has crossed over in to the "values" area.  At least here in the blue city of Philadelphia.

So I'd say:

biology studies belong in the classroom
values studies belong in the home
2005-10-25 4:02 PM
in reply to: #272345

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Buttercup
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers

dontracy - 2005-10-25 3:58 PM

So I'd say:

biology studies belong in the classroom
values studies belong in the home

Agreed.

2005-10-25 5:11 PM
in reply to: #272345

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
dontracy - 2005-10-25 4:58 PM

Renee - 2

I think kids should be taught about human sexual reproduction and sexual anatomy within a Biology class (this is already done with frogs and other animals)... STD's should be taught within the context of teaching about diseases (Biology?) and how they are spread.



Yea, I basically agree with you. Might even go along with teaching about STD's as long as it doesn't turn into the type of situation that Michele discribed, with kids playing with condoms and spermicide. From stories that I've read and heard and even experieced myself, that is all too often what hapens.

I guess there is a line here somewhere between "biology" and "values". I'm not sure exactly where it is, but it seems to me that in general it has crossed over in to the "values" area. At least here in the blue city of Philadelphia.

So I'd say:

biology studies belong in the classroom
values studies belong in the home


Although...one of the most effective/home hitting presentations I got in high school was about condom use. We had to put a condom on an anatomy dummy (guys AND girls). First we did it how we *thought* was the right way, then we got a lecture on how to *effectively* put them on. Condom myths/mis-use only up the rate of transmission. I did sex-ed type stuff for a while, and part of the presentation included me putting a condom on my head swim-cap style, and filling one up with about 3+ gallons of water to drive home that the "I'm too big for a condom" excuse is lame. I don't know...maybe it's the tinker in me, i'd just like to know my tools before I use them.
2005-10-25 5:45 PM
in reply to: #272380

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Philadelphia, south of New York and north of DC
Subject: RE: Sex education for middle schoolers
phoenixazul - I don't know...maybe it's the tinker in me, i'd just like to know my tools before I use them.


Tracey, some parents will want to teach their kids that it's wrong to use condoms in the first place. So your example seems to pull the rug of authority out from under those parents.

A demonstration like the one you went through seems to sanction condom use. That, in turn, may create a division within a child who must decide between the teaching of the school system and the teaching of their parents. So it seems not only unfair to the parents but to the child as well.

If parents themselves want to take their children swimming with a condom on their head, I've got no problem.
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