General Discussion Triathlon Talk » friction shifting..... why did i not do this before? Rss Feed  
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2009-09-02 5:07 PM

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Subject: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
so this was sort of a revelation for me.

i went out riding the other day, right after i got to notre dame, and had totally forgot to adjust my rear derailer after putting training wheels back on (diff cassette size). as we pulled out of town my chain started jumping like mad, and in a attempt to not get dropped, i quickly changed my right shifter into friction mode thinking it would at least get me through the ride.

oh my god, why did i not do this before? (on a tri bike). shifting was like butter, absolutly NO NOISE from the chain/rear derailer.

my shifting was pretty well dialed in before, but still made a bit of noise. now it smoother than it ever has been, and SILENT.

just wondering, how many of you run the rear shifter in friction vs index mode on a tri bike?



2009-09-02 5:19 PM
in reply to: #2385895

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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
Probably not many unless they are running a 10-speed shifter with an 8 or 9 speed cassette.

Yeah, it is always a good "work-around" for a poorly tuned bike.
2009-09-02 5:24 PM
in reply to: #2385912

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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
ouch.

all parts are 10spd, and never had any issues before. shifted great. this just feels better to me for some reason.
2009-09-02 5:38 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
When I started racing, friction shifting was all there was. You really got a feel for it and the indexing was in your fingers so to speak. Of course all the new tech stuff is great, but as you note, the old ways still have some value.
2009-09-02 5:43 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
When I looked into getting different gearing on my bike for hilly courses in order to keep my power down going up hills one option I looked at was MTB 9 speed cassette on my 10 speed bike and I would have had to shift to friction shifting. My road bikes as a kid were all friction and the shop assured me I'd get used to it in no time. I do like the idea to have that idea in my back pocket if I'm in a jam in the future. I think I'll play around with it some ride once I'm back riding. Glad you mentioned that it worked for you.

For IM Canada I used 10 speed off brand 10 speed cassette with wide range of gears with a MTB derailuer which is 9 speed and certain gears didn't work well..this may have been an option I should have tried.
2009-09-02 6:42 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
Daremo - 2009-09-02 6:19 PM Probably not many unless they are running a 10-speed shifter with an 8 or 9 speed cassette.

Yeah, it is always a good "work-around" for a poorly tuned bike.


 I went from index to friction as a work around on a poorly tuned bike. I got it tuned and went back to index. Halfway into the first ride I went back to friction and have stayed there. Just feels better to me on the bar end shifters.


2009-09-02 6:53 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
newbz - 2009-09-02 6:07 PM so this was sort of a revelation for me. i went out riding the other day, right after i got to notre dame, and had totally forgot to adjust my rear derailer after putting training wheels back on (diff cassette size). as we pulled out of town my chain started jumping like mad, and in a attempt to not get dropped, i quickly changed my right shifter into friction mode thinking it would at least get me through the ride. oh my god, why did i not do this before? (on a tri bike). shifting was like butter, absolutly NO NOISE from the chain/rear derailer. my shifting was pretty well dialed in before, but still made a bit of noise. now it smoother than it ever has been, and SILENT. just wondering, how many of you run the rear shifter in friction vs index mode on a tri bike?


I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. 
2009-09-02 6:59 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
^^^  What she said!!!  What is friction shifting?  And how do you engage it?  How does it differ from normal (I guess that would be index) shifting?
2009-09-02 7:04 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
nscrbug - 2009-09-02 7:59 PM ^^^  What she said!!!  What is friction shifting?  And how do you engage it?  How does it differ from normal (I guess that would be index) shifting?


On your right bar end shifter there is a little piece under the shifter that you can flip and it will change from index shifting which means it clicks when you shift so your hand feels the place to stop to change gears. With friction shifting it feels like when you shift your front derailuer with your left bar end shifter..no clicks you feel it until it is in the right spot. But with your rear derailuer you have 10 gears to shift through if you have a 10 speed bike.
2009-09-02 7:11 PM
in reply to: #2386025

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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
I liked the friction shifting when I had my 10 speed bar end shifters on my 9 speed.  It did seem pretty smooth and quiet, but it need a decent "touch" to get used to it.

When I got my P2C, and had it tuned right, the index shifting seemed just as good to me.  That's where I leave it.

But it's great to know it there in case somethings goes really wonky during a race.  Make the switch and maybe stay in the race.
2009-09-02 7:14 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
KathyG - 2009-09-02 7:04 PM
nscrbug - 2009-09-02 7:59 PM ^^^  What she said!!!  What is friction shifting?  And how do you engage it?  How does it differ from normal (I guess that would be index) shifting?


On your right bar end shifter there is a little piece under the shifter that you can flip and it will change from index shifting which means it clicks when you shift so your hand feels the place to stop to change gears. With friction shifting it feels like when you shift your front derailuer with your left bar end shifter..no clicks you feel it until it is in the right spot. But with your rear derailuer you have 10 gears to shift through if you have a 10 speed bike.


Ok, got it.   I assume this is a "tri bike only" thing?  I ride a roadie, so maybe that's why I'm clueless about it. 


2009-09-02 7:19 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
KathyG - 2009-09-02 5:04 PM
nscrbug - 2009-09-02 7:59 PM ^^^  What she said!!!  What is friction shifting?  And how do you engage it?  How does it differ from normal (I guess that would be index) shifting?


On your right bar end shifter there is a little piece under the shifter that you can flip and it will change from index shifting which means it clicks when you shift so your hand feels the place to stop to change gears. With friction shifting it feels like when you shift your front derailuer with your left bar end shifter..no clicks you feel it until it is in the right spot. But with your rear derailuer you have 10 gears to shift through if you have a 10 speed bike.

Kathy, thank you!!! I was wondering what friction shifting is too.  And I've been wondering for over a year now what that little flippy thingy was on my shifter.  I play with it while I'm on the trainer, but obviously not ever while I was shifting.  Yer smart.  :-)
2009-09-02 7:23 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
nscrbug - 2009-09-02 5:14 PM
KathyG - 2009-09-02 7:04 PM
nscrbug - 2009-09-02 7:59 PM ^^^  What she said!!!  What is friction shifting?  And how do you engage it?  How does it differ from normal (I guess that would be index) shifting?


On your right bar end shifter there is a little piece under the shifter that you can flip and it will change from index shifting which means it clicks when you shift so your hand feels the place to stop to change gears. With friction shifting it feels like when you shift your front derailuer with your left bar end shifter..no clicks you feel it until it is in the right spot. But with your rear derailuer you have 10 gears to shift through if you have a 10 speed bike.


Ok, got it.   I assume this is a "tri bike only" thing?  I ride a roadie, so maybe that's why I'm clueless about it. 


Yeah, it's a selection on bar end shifters.

Technically, old fashioned down tube shifters are friction based!  Then technology comes into play and now you can "click" from gear to gear.  It nice because you don't have to go by touch so much to get it in the right gear.  Just on click and you are done.  With friction, you could go short or past the next gear just a tad and get some chain hop untill you adjust it back.  Easy enough to learn, but not as "user friendly" as index shifting, IMO.

However, funny how sometimes the old way of doing things is really not that bad.
2009-09-02 7:52 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
HA!  Who knew?!?!

My old road bike had STI shifters, and of course index shifting.

When I got my tri bike, which I bought used, it was apparently in the friction mode.  I just assumed that that was the way bar end shifters were!  I had no idea you could switch back and forth.  Now I can't wait to ride it in index mode and see how it is.  Although I've gotten really used to, and like, the friction shifting.

Well, you learn something new everyday!
2009-09-02 7:54 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
Hah! I've been in FD friction mode since getting my P2c and I never realized it could be anything else! Who knew?
2009-09-02 9:39 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
<raises his hand> Yes, I've done that.  I was constantly adjusting my bike (my indoor trainer wheel and my outdoor training wheel had slightly different cassettes), and I got sick of it.  And even when I spent a lot of time tuning the bike (no doubt I don't have some people's skill here) there would be a little noise in some gear combinations.  With friction shifting, none at all.  And the shifting is just easier.  After riding that way for a while, I can very quickly and easily get from any gear to any other quite quickly -- more quickly, I think, than I could with the index shifting.  I've never gone back.


2009-09-02 10:43 PM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?

This feels like those stories about kids graduating from High School who have never experienced a record player or dial phones, never knew Freddie Mercury (Queen) when he was alive.

My first 'real' bike was a 1987 Cannondale SR500 with then new 6-speed "index' shifting, and the never-before-dreamed-of-idea of routing the brake cable under the handlebar tape (called SLR brakes-Shimano Linear Response).  Man do I suddenly feel old.

2009-09-03 8:45 AM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
Friction shifting is all I have ever run.  My first bike didn't have SIS, so that is what I got accustomed to.  It also had down tube shifters,  UGH.  My second bike came with SIS, and I couldn't stand it, so I switched it back to friction shifting.  I have bar end shifters now and run only a 7 speed.
2009-09-03 8:45 AM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
How old are these people asking what friction shifting is?  It hasn't been that long ago has it?  You use to have to take your hands off the bars to shift too.
 
2009-09-03 9:07 AM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
RichMan - 2009-09-03 9:45 AM How old are these people asking what friction shifting is?  It hasn't been that long ago has it?  You use to have to take your hands off the bars to shift too.
 


Seriously!  I didn't even OWN an indexed shifter until I was 30; and that was also the first bike I had with shifters on the down tube instead of the top tube.  Of course, it could switch to friction.  And the front derailour used friction only. 

These kids today don't know how good they have it - indexed shifting, integrated shifters, spoke counts under 30, road AND mountain bikes, helmets that can actually protect your head.  In my day, the only "indexed shifters" where on 3 speed bikes, with the banana seat.  And anytime you went downhill, you had to rely as much on prayer as on the brakes actually stopping you!

And we had to walk 10 miles uphill both ways in the snow to get to the LBS.
2009-09-03 9:52 AM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
I'm glad some people mentioned the 10 speed in shifters in friction mode on a 9 speed cassette. I had been wondering if this would work since 9spd bar end shifters are harder to find at a good price. I figured 10spd ones would be a better value to resell later if/when I get a real tri bike and probably take the aeros off the road bike. I figured it would work but was skeptical. I may have to try this.


2009-09-03 10:16 AM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
gearboy - 2009-09-03 7:07 AM
RichMan - 2009-09-03 9:45 AM How old are these people asking what friction shifting is?  It hasn't been that long ago has it?  You use to have to take your hands off the bars to shift too.
 


These kids today don't know how good they have it - indexed shifting, integrated shifters, spoke counts under 30, road AND mountain bikes, helmets that can actually protect your head.  In my day, the only "indexed shifters" where on 3 speed bikes, with the banana seat.  And anytime you went downhill, you had to rely as much on prayer as on the brakes actually stopping you!

And we had to walk 10 miles uphill both ways in the snow to get to the LBS.


Whatever. Fred Flintstone's car had better breaks than my tri bike does.
2009-09-03 10:51 AM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
mrtopher1980 - 2009-09-03 7:52 AM I'm glad some people mentioned the 10 speed in shifters in friction mode on a 9 speed cassette. I had been wondering if this would work since 9spd bar end shifters are harder to find at a good price. I figured 10spd ones would be a better value to resell later if/when I get a real tri bike and probably take the aeros off the road bike. I figured it would work but was skeptical. I may have to try this.


Just make sure your derailer has the upper and lower limits set well so you don't throw the chain...
2009-09-03 10:56 AM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
Aikidoman - 2009-09-03 11:51 AM
mrtopher1980 - 2009-09-03 7:52 AM I'm glad some people mentioned the 10 speed in shifters in friction mode on a 9 speed cassette. I had been wondering if this would work since 9spd bar end shifters are harder to find at a good price. I figured 10spd ones would be a better value to resell later if/when I get a real tri bike and probably take the aeros off the road bike. I figured it would work but was skeptical. I may have to try this.


Just make sure your derailer has the upper and lower limits set well so you don't throw the chain...


Yeah they are set correctly even without the friction shifters on there now, glad this came up to convince me it is worth trying

I worked at a bike shop for 5+ years we just did mostly MTB stuff so never dealt much with friction so while I worked with it and knew it would work, I was just doubting myself.

Thanks.
2009-09-03 11:02 AM
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Subject: RE: friction shifting..... why did i not do this before?
For quite a few years we would only build the top MTB bikes with Deore thumshifters ...... much better than the Rapid-Failure stuff when it first came out!  And since people didn't always have the right gearing number they would end up running friction for them.

Now if I was running 6-speed Campy Super Record on an old Masi or something, then I'd be rocking the friction and loving it!

But I'm living in the 2000's ...... come on people, get with the times!!
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