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2010-03-29 8:49 PM

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Subject: Running injury free
So before you read on, this is all based on my thoughts, research, experience, coaching, and personal racing. It is no way is law, and simply my semi-educated opinion on a few things.

We’ve all known one at some point, that runner that no matter how much they train, they seemingly just do not get hurt. It’s a low blow to most newer runners struggling with shin or other common running issues, but the fix and subsequent path to running injury free is actually quite simple as long as a few basics are understood and followed.
One of my largest issues I see with newer (and many times experienced) runners is simply doing too much too soon; either distance, intensity, or both. Many times the runner actually does a good job for the first few weeks/months of running before issues spring up. Many times with this the problem comes from the runners aerobic ability progressing much faster than the harder tissues/joints/tendons etc can build up to the distances. Because of this many runners tend to dive into speeds and efforts that are actually beyond what their bodies can handle even though they don’t feel as though they are running that fast.
The next big issue comes from an inappropriate training load, sometimes from too much mileage but more often than not from simply running harder than the body is able to handle day after day. Many runners putting in too fast of runs complain about not being to run more than a few times a week because they need time off after each run, when slowing down a bit would often solve this issues completely.
The question this brings up is don’t you need to run faster in training to race faster? To a point, no, you don’t. While running at/around/faster than race pace (depending on race distance) does have its place in training, most runners do not reach the place where it should be used. If we take out faster running, the only other way to up the training load is to run a bit slower and run more. It is worth noting that when runners or coaches talk about slowing down runs, this is the main reason. It is not for the sake of running slower, or that running slower has more of a benefit, but rather that slightly slower training will allow you to run more, more often, and THIS will lead to improved fitness. Because of the lower impact/damage done at a slightly slower pace, you can continue building mileage and frequency, and from this fitness, with MUCH less risk of injury.
Your training load is a combination of volume and intensity, and because of this you can accomplish a LOT through simply running more at a lower intensity. While some faster running is a good thing, most runners need to have more mileage under their belt than they do before starting to add it in. I think for most, that slowly upping mileages until time/practical returns hit a wall before adding in speed work is a good rule of thumb and likely to keep most runners from A- adding in faster work before its safe, and B-, improving at a steady rate for much longer than they thought possible.
Lastly, I wanted to touch base with shoe choice. I very strongly believe that while running in the correct shoes is important, the proper build up and execution of a run program is WILDLY more important to staying injury free. Personally I think that the recent jump in popularity of vibrams, flats, and running barefoot actually helps to show this in that is forces runners to basically rebuild from the ground up their run training, both in terms of how much, how often, and how hard. EVERY single person I have seen re-start like this, regardless of shoes, has done well running, and I think goes a long way to point out how proper, slow, purposeful building helps in a healthy run program.



2010-03-29 10:23 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
excellent post, something I definitely need to contemplate... being that my knee is keeping me on the couch again after my 1/2 mary.
2010-03-29 10:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
Leegoocrap - 2010-03-29 9:23 PM

excellent post, something I definitely need to contemplate... being that my knee is keeping me on the couch again after my 1/2 mary.


I know i am sure to annoy/bug some people with this post, which is why i prefaced it with in my opinion, but for me, and those i have coached + what i have learned, this seems to be wildly the best way to tackle running to get faster and not get hurt, and more so when you are newer to running.

I think once you have been at it a while you start to get a feel for where you can push it, and where to back off (for example i know with me once i get comfortable running again i can fluctuate the amount of runs per week/length of runs on similar mileage without too any issues, but i change the intensity and it gets bad.

its going to be a bit diff, but this is a good place to start.
2010-03-29 10:57 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
I think you have a good point.  I NEVER did a speed workout until about 1.5 years after I started running, and it was really 2 years after I started (with 1 year of about 20 mpw), that I started incorporating a lot of speed work (once/week). 

When I started marathon training, I dropped the speedwork, because it was simply too hard on my body along with increasing from 30 mpw to 35 mpw, to 40 etc. 

I ran a 12k race 3 weeks after the marathon, went too hard, and had a nagging knee injury for a couple months (brought my running to about twice per week, 3 miles).  I think if i had just skipped the race, and recovered for another week, I would have been able to race the two spring marathons that I was hoping to.  Now, I am back to square one, just trying to get back up to 25 mpw.  Gah! 

It is interesting how endurance works - doing a lot at a pace easier then your race pace, does, in fact, make you a lot faster! 
2010-03-29 11:07 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
ultrahip_00 - 2010-03-29 9:57 PM

I think you have a good point. I NEVER did a speed workout until about 1.5 years after I started running, and it was really 2 years after I started (with 1 year of about 20 mpw), that I started incorporating a lot of speed work (once/week).

When I started marathon training, I dropped the speedwork, because it was simply too hard on my body along with increasing from 30 mpw to 35 mpw, to 40 etc.

I ran a 12k race 3 weeks after the marathon, went too hard, and had a nagging knee injury for a couple months (brought my running to about twice per week, 3 miles). I think if i had just skipped the race, and recovered for another week, I would have been able to race the two spring marathons that I was hoping to. Now, I am back to square one, just trying to get back up to 25 mpw. Gah!

It is interesting how endurance works - doing a lot at a pace easier then your race pace, does, in fact, make you a lot faster!



Good thing to note here (not really directed at you), for those adding in speed work, DO NOT add speed and distance in the same week, one, or the other, or back off distance a bit and add speed.

be very careful when adding to your training load this way.

@ ultra, i have had a lot of injuries like this in the past. one or two days/few days here and there could have done the trick, would have missed two runs. but i pushed it one or two runs too far and missed 2 months here, 3 weeks there.

if only we could learn from experieces without actually having the bad ones!
2010-03-29 11:48 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
what do you consider the difference between a speed day and a day you just feel really good so you hammer it out?


2010-03-29 11:58 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
This is a great post, with lots of very helpful information. But it's frustrating for me because I feel like I've followed all of these rules and still keep getting injured.

I've been running for about three years, and have done two marathons. I feel like I've been smart in my training and done everything I could to stay injury free -- I've built up my mileage carefully, and I've shied away from speedwork except for the occasional tempo run and races maybe once a month. During marathon training my body's held up great. But after both marathons I've ended up injured and forced to scale back by mileage a lot, which is incredibly frustrating. The first marathon I had some quad tendinitis that took a couple of months to go way (and in hindsight, I probably didn't need to cut back my mileage as much as I did, but it was my first time "injured" and I was being very careful). The second marathon, last December, I felt fantastic during training, including one 200-mile month, and I felt fine during the race, then three weeks later I've got plantar fasciitis, which I've been struggling with ever since.

I'm starting to think that maybe my body just isn't built for marathons? I signed up for the NYC Marathon lottery, and if I get in I'll run it this fall, but otherwise I'm taking the year off from marathons. I'm going to build up my mileage even more slowly -- more cautious than the 10 percent rule -- and I'm going to add core work and try to lose some more weight, to see if those things won't help keep away the injuries. Otherwise, I'm just not sure what to do.




Edited by Fielding 2010-03-30 12:02 AM
2010-03-30 12:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
Out of the 5 years of my running return, I've been hurt at least once each year.  Contrast this to my 7 years of cycling, I've never been injured.  I think running is just such a science that doing something even 1 mm off will cause issues.  The many 'gimmick' run styles do not help either.

2 IT band injuries (on my right leg), one lcl injury (right leg), 1 recurring achilles injury (left leg), and 3 incidents involving major ankle twists have put me out at least two weeks.  Other than the IT Band injuries, I wouldn't contribute any of the others to training load; mainly bad luck.  I injured the achilles while on a 5 mile run in 110 degree heat; I'm convinced it was due to lack of water in my system that caused the tear.

Also my peroneus tendon has been in discomfort for the past 2 months after running in uncomfortable motion control shoes; its tolerable now and I just hope it (and the achilles) behave until and during IMSG.
2010-03-30 12:17 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
Fielding - 2010-03-29 10:58 PM

This is a great post, with lots of very helpful information. But it's frustrating for me because I feel like I've followed all of these rules and still keep getting injured.

I've been running for about three years, and have done two marathons. I feel like I've been smart in my training and done everything I could to stay injury free -- I've built up my mileage carefully, and I've shied away from speedwork except for the occasional tempo run and races maybe once a month. During marathon training my body's held up great. But after both marathons I've ended up injured and forced to scale back by mileage a lot, which is incredibly frustrating. The first marathon I had some quad tendinitis that took a couple of months to go way (and in hindsight, I probably didn't need to cut back my mileage as much as I did, but it was my first time "injured" and I was being very careful). The second marathon, last December, I felt fantastic during training, including one 200-mile month, and I felt fine during the race, then three weeks later I've got plantar fasciitis, which I've been struggling with ever since.

I'm starting to think that maybe my body just isn't built for marathons? I signed up for the NYC Marathon lottery, and if I get in I'll run it this fall, but otherwise I'm taking the year off from marathons. I'm going to build up my mileage even more slowly -- more cautious than the 10 percent rule -- and I'm going to add core work and try to lose some more weight, to see if those things won't help keep away the injuries. Otherwise, I'm just not sure what to do.





to hit this and ferrot.

I do think/agree that some of it can be just bad luck.

One of my worst injuries running to date (stress frac) was a non-issue before a race and i would not walk after it.

Sometimes some nasty things do happen. you land wrong, do something wrong in one workout, or simply bad luck.

Weight wise, i have noticed a LOT more stress free running as weight went down, and i am sure this will help most people. less pounding per body size assuming it is healthy is always a good thing.

And i am sure right now if i tried a marathon i would end up hurt, its a LONG run, and the longer you are out there the more this will add up. I came through my longest run ever this past weekened in 2hr or so, 17.2 mi. That is a muych faster pace than many race a mary, or half mary at, but i know for me, if i upped that enough 9 mi and ran slower, i would prob end up hurt, or at least off real training for a while after.

26.2 mi is a LONG run, and a lot can happen to your body in that time.
2010-03-30 4:33 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
Fielding - 2010-03-30 12:58 AM

This is a great post, with lots of very helpful information. But it's frustrating for me because I feel like I've followed all of these rules and still keep getting injured.

I've been running for about three years, and have done two marathons. I feel like I've been smart in my training and done everything I could to stay injury free --



Great post, newbz.... I've found this approach working very well for me over the past year or so - increasing my mileage. almost all of it at an easy aerobic pace, VERY little in the way of speedwork, and most of that pretty "informal" speedwork (throw in a few strides here and there, etc.).

Fielding - it could be that maybe you must moved up to marathon distance too quickly. Two marathons within your first 3 years of running is a lot. I've backed off and focused on the 10K - 1/2 marathon distance. I like to keep my long runs somewhere around 1/3 of my total weekly mileage - this seems to be about right for me. I'm a long way away from running anywhere near the 60 + miles per week I feel would be right for me at the peak of marathon training. I've only done one full marathon, and probably did it too early as well. Fortunately it turned out okay, but I won't do another one unless/until I have my total running volume much higher than it is now.
2010-03-30 5:44 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
I look back on last four season and the years I was the most injured I ran less often only 3x a week. Last year I started running more frequently 4 sometimes 5 times a week and yes slower with lower HR and felt better than I ever have running since I started in '04 and had no injury issues.

I was pretty amazed that last year running more I had no run injuries and felt better as what I had read and thought was quite the opposite. Best part of running more and building durability is that my IM run given my day I was pleased with and my fastest miles were my last ones.

This year moving towards more frequent running with guidance of my coach and last few weeks I'm running 5 times a week depending on the week.


2010-03-30 5:45 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free

I am so slow, I consider my speed work is when I have a tail wind behind me

I started running 5 weeks ago with the C25K program. I have stuck with it almost exclusively. Once I actually ran longer than stated by quite a bit. Was more of a fitness test for myself.

Man Im slow, but my legs are moving forward and Im very careful not to injur my stressed out joints. I began running at 294 lbs and am now at 271.8

Im only at 13 mins/mile but thats way faster than being on the couch.

2010-03-30 6:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free

Great post Newbz, hopefully we can keep this on the first page for anyone with this important question.  Although this is discussed very often, it is a very good idea that you put it all together in one place.

Looking back I think you'll remember about a month and a half ago, I decided to finally get my running form looked at.  I was told to run barefoot and then in shoes and back again.  Watching the screen I was amazed that I was actually landing on my toes when I was barefoot.  When I switched to the shoes, my foot was almost landing exactly the same, but this time my heal was hitting just before because i was in a pair of shoes with such at elevated heal.  So now that I have the right shoes, I needed some help with how to start (again, for like the fifteenth time in a year).  Between you and others, some great points were made about training load and intensity.  I think it's also important to mention and really drive home the point about speed work and tempo workouts.

Many many training plans that you can get are excellent and if followed correctly, will heed fantastic results, with a couple exceptions.  Like you said, if you do not have a running background, you need to build running fitness prior to doing speed workouts or even tempo runs.  I have found that I can follow a HIM training plan, but because I don't have more than a year of running experience, it's not a good idea for me to try to do the runs the way that the plan says.  For newer people to running (like myself) just remember that even we type A personalities should NOT stick to the plan if you're body is not ready for the plan.  You will find yourself starting at the beginning of the plan over and over due to injuries and over training.

Some good advice would also be to plan ahead.  If you are just starting to run, make sure you are smart about what you do when you are NOT running.  Your first runs may be in the order of 15 minutes.  Ice and stretch after them.  Maybe they won't seem like much, but all those small muscles and fibers need time to heal.  A little preventative maintenance never hurt.

2010-03-30 8:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
Great Post, I see it, I understand it, I just need to do it (especially the go slow part and go slower part).

I am starting my third month of ITBS, it has been horrible, maybe this injury will be the motiviation for me not to try and kill every run that I ever do (if I am ever healthy again).

I am just now getting back into being able to do 2 or 3 or 4 milers.  Though I need to be careful, did a four miler almost pain free on Sunday then could not do 3 miles yesterday.
2010-03-30 9:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
Fielding - 2010-03-30 12:58 AM
more cautious than the 10 percent rule


The "10% rule" actually becomes fairly agressive once you get beyond the beginning stages.

I glanced briefly at your logs and looked at monthly volume for you over the past 3 years.  You should look at the graph.  I think you will get a sense of why you become injured after training for a marathon.  There's no complicated "science" to running as one poster inferred.  It's one of the most basic forms of exercise one can do.  It's simply a high impact activity and increases in that activity should be taken with care.

FWIW, the only serious injury I've had (i.e., causing me to miss a few weeks versus a few days of running) came after running my first marathon.  There wasn't any single workout I did that I couldn't handle at the time.  I beat my race goal by a wide margin.  But the accumlation of all the running I did to prepare was more than my body was ready for at the time (had been running for just about a year and had already probably 'pushed' things with a HIM).


Separately, to newbz' point about not needing to train fast to race fast, I ran a PR 5k a couple weeks ago.  At a pace I have not pushed in training (or racing) for probably a year.  Have just been putting in more consistent running.
2010-03-30 9:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
Leegoocrap - 2010-03-29 11:23 PM excellent post, something I definitely need to contemplate... being that my knee is keeping me on the couch again after my 1/2 mary.


Im in the same boat, albeit a much slower boat. When I line up at the start line, I have trouble managing the part of me that runs intelligently with the part of me that is competitive.


2010-03-30 9:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free

This is my 5th year of tri stuff. I had no running background. I'm relatively pokey and I'm over 40. When I first started, I was running in shoes I got on Ebay and they didn't fit! LOL I also ramped up too fast for me and had achilles tendinitus by mid-summer. I now wear orthotics (have had one bunionectomy also).

Speed has been elusive and something I would like but thanks for that reminder - no speed stuff when increasing miles. I've got a 1/2 mary coming up.

For me, after 4 years, I still feel so new to running. Its complicated! I read lots on the topic and try different postures, techniques, gaits etc... trying to find my 'groove'. Maybe if I were 20 years younger, I'd be more apt to seek out marathon distances but at the rate I'm going, maybe I'll be ready in a few more years. I've also found learned that there is a BIG difference between completing a distance completely spent, nearly barfing, and potentially injuring myself vs. laying the groundwork and developing my form and finishing with energy for high fives and smiles! At my age, I don't want to get injured cuz it takes too dang long to recover so I look to gaining strength, keeping injury free and one of the biggies for me - stretching (which I'm guilty of cutting corners on at times).



Edited by BbMoozer 2010-03-30 10:02 AM
2010-03-30 11:09 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
i think it may seem complicated, but its actually very very simple, and because of this people tend to think there is more too it, and keep looking for more answers.

Start slow, build slowly, rinse, repeat for a long time. gains come, just not quickly.
2010-03-30 11:30 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free

newbz - 2010-03-30 11:09 AM i think it may seem complicated, but its actually very very simple, and because of this people tend to think there is more too it, and keep looking for more answers. Start slow, build slowly, rinse, repeat for a long time. gains come, just not quickly.
Some other random guidelines:

1. Respect building volume (even if you have done high volume and are restarting a cycle)

2. Respect speedplay (especially if you are starting up again after time off or are new

3. Respect aches and pains and adjust plans for more speed or volume accordingly

4.  Be patient

I think some of the perception that there are runners who never get hurt isnt necessarily true.  I think there are just runners who have a grasp and discipline as to when its time to back off a bit for a workout or a few days or whatever is necessary.  There are too many folks that think you can pound your way into running fast and thats where problems come about.  Its a process and if you step away from that process for a few weeks or months, you are gonna have to ease back into it.  Remember to enjoy the ride too cuz that helps with the whole patience thing.

2010-03-30 11:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
jszat - 2010-03-30 10:30 AM

newbz - 2010-03-30 11:09 AM i think it may seem complicated, but its actually very very simple, and because of this people tend to think there is more too it, and keep looking for more answers. Start slow, build slowly, rinse, repeat for a long time. gains come, just not quickly.
Some other random guidelines:

1. Respect building volume (even if you have done high volume and are restarting a cycle)

2. Respect speedplay (especially if you are starting up again after time off or are new

3. Respect aches and pains and adjust plans for more speed or volume accordingly

4. Be patient

I think some of the perception that there are runners who never get hurt isnt necessarily true. I think there are just runners who have a grasp and discipline as to when its time to back off a bit for a workout or a few days or whatever is necessary. There are too many folks that think you can pound your way into running fast and thats where problems come about. Its a process and if you step away from that process for a few weeks or months, you are gonna have to ease back into it. Remember to enjoy the ride too cuz that helps with the whole patience thing.



these are some good points, and a few others worth mentioning:

- Know when a day off, shortened workout, etc are needed. a day or two off now can prevent weeks/months off later

- When you do harder work, be that volume, a long run, faster running, you should not be killing yourself. if you have something like 10x400m at 5k pace, run them at 5k pace, not as hard as you can. If you finish feeling like you are going to die and are totally trashed, this is where issues come up. Just because you CAN run something faster, doesn't mean you should.

There is a lot to be said for being able to turn around and make it out the door again tomorrow, and the day after, and the day after. Or in other words, the athlete that can train frequently, over time, even if his workouts are a bit easier/shorter will almost always come out ahead of the person that hammers all their workouts and then needs two days to recover. consistency is an awesome thing.
2010-03-30 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
I linked to this article a few years ago.  Still one of my favorites.  I should post it more.

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/torart.htm


2010-03-30 12:21 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free

JohnnyKay - 2010-03-30 12:00 PM I linked to this article a few years ago.  Still one of my favorites.  I should post it more.

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/torart.htm[/QUOTE]

havent seen that in a while but still awesome.  thats what i want to be when i grow up!

2010-03-30 12:30 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free

All good points that you make.  But despite trying to do everything right, I find myself suffering one issue or another every so often.  I guess we're all unique and some bodies are more resilient than others when it comes to running.  I feel like I could cycle and swim about as much as I like without issue.  I will never, ever, same the same of running.  But I keep plugging away at it, since it remains my limiter.  If I can get running up to par with cycling (30-40% in AG last season), then perhaps I'll shift some focus back to the bike at that point.

2010-03-30 12:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free
My story is I am coming back from several running injuries. All of which were caused by poor gait mechanics. Everyone seems to be so focused on swim form/technique, even I still obsess over it. What I have found is that run form is equally as important. We tend to over look it because running is a natural movement for most us. Swimming is not.

I finally have all my injuries healed from this past winter. All of my alignment issues were corrected by a very expensive therapist. I am now in the rebuild phase. I will never ever again take my running form for granted. It is something that I continually need to work on. 
2010-03-30 1:12 PM
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Subject: RE: Running injury free

TracyV - 2010-03-30 12:54 PM My story is I am coming back from several running injuries. All of which were caused by poor gait mechanics. Everyone seems to be so focused on swim form/technique, even I still obsess over it. What I have found is that run form is equally as important. We tend to over look it because running is a natural movement for most us. Swimming is not.

I finally have all my injuries healed from this past winter. All of my alignment issues were corrected by a very expensive therapist. I am now in the rebuild phase. I will never ever again take my running form for granted. It is something that I continually need to work on. 

I totally agree with newbz. I've been running for more than 20 years. I have had very few injuries in that time. My volume and goals have ranged, but always have relied on building volume and strength gradually.

Newbz downplays the speed part because it's true that too much, too soon, too fast, and you will definitely get hurt. But there does have to be some fast training to get faster. Just respect the toll it can take on your body and distribute it appropriately across the training spectrum. And like newbz said, if the the speedwork calls for intervals at a 5k pace, don't go faster just because you can.

As to TracyV's point, "all of my alignment issues were corrected": if you find that you are getting injured even after following a smart training plan, it may be that alignment and mechanics are your issues. Many of us spend most of our days sitting at a desk or engaging in some type of repetitive movement to do our jobs. It should be no surprise that this can cause undue stressors to hips, shoulders, backs, etc. Running and other sports with similar repetitive movements may, in fact, only amplify the issue. So, if you find that injury dogs you anyway, consider alignment and mechanics as potential culprits. Look at yourself in the mirror. Are you knees pointed forward? Are they even? Do your ankles roll in or out? Are your shoulders up and level? Are your hips even?

There are lots of alternatives to correcting alignment issues. Physical therapy, chiropractic care, yoga (with an instructor)... One of my personal favorites is a book called Pain Free.

In any case, it's something else to consider if nagging injuries continue to be a problem.

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