General Discussion Triathlon Talk » iPhone Legal? Rss Feed  
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2012-06-25 1:08 PM

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2012-06-25 1:32 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Champion
7821
50002000500100100100
Brooklyn, NY
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
That’s an interesting question. Would love to hear one of our resident referees weigh in.

If I had to guess, I would say that as long as you were only using the computer function of the iPhone, and not, for example, listening to music, texting or making calls, you would be ok.
2012-06-25 1:32 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
You mean like in a case on the bike?  I don't think that would be illegal as you are using it as a computer.   No first hand experience though
2012-06-25 1:46 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Expert
2192
2000100252525
Greenville, SC
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
i think if it was put in airplane mode with Wifi/Bluetooth enabled, if required for sensors, it would be ok.  maybe unsync any mp3/audio files from it before race day, then resync afterwards.  purely a computer at that point.
2012-06-25 1:48 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Extreme Veteran
856
5001001001002525
Detroit, Michigan
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

At the race I did last week, the director was clear that they were not allowed as they are personal music players.

I imagine interpretation of this law is up to the race director.

2012-06-25 1:55 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Extreme Veteran
1018
1000
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
Dang.  I was hoping to take mine so I could get motivating texts from friends and family on the run.  Even call them and let them know I'm within a mile of the finish line.


2012-06-25 2:05 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Veteran
293
100100252525
Somewhere training in Rocklin, CA
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
I have the Wahoo system, train and race with it but never bothered to ask about the rule given it's use as a bike computer vs music/phone/etc. I like to think that a reasonable interpretation of the rule would apply but it probably, like always, depends upon the official.
2012-06-25 2:29 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Extreme Veteran
534
50025
Herriman, Utah
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
Email the Race Director for sure but in my opinion it should be okay to use it. I used mine last year but didn't like keeping it in the transition area.
2012-06-25 2:49 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Master
2327
200010010010025
Columbia, TN
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

At a local race here a few weeks ago the RD announced repeatedly on the PA system that they were NOT allowed to be used on the bike as a head unit.

I think that this interpretation of the rules is incorrect and I suggest someone email Charlie, the head referree at USAT and ask him.  His email address is published on the site and he welcomes email questions and responds in a timely manner.

 

2012-06-25 4:31 PM
in reply to: #4279520


79
252525
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
I saw someone using their iPhone with this (or a similar) system at the Philly tri yesterday.  Looks cool!
2012-06-26 4:51 AM
in reply to: #4279753


1439
100010010010010025
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

swimtochina - 2012-06-25 5:31 PM I saw someone using their iPhone with this (or a similar) system at the Philly tri yesterday.  Looks cool!

 

 

Contact Garmin, the more people who do the faster they will work on a fix for this issue. They need to konw it is an issue before they will look into it and just an handful of people with the issue will probably not prompt them to do anything.



2012-06-26 9:54 AM
in reply to: #4279364

Veteran
441
10010010010025
Clearwater, FL
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

GAUG3 - 2012-06-25 2:55 PM Dang.  I was hoping to take mine so I could get motivating texts from friends and family on the run.  Even call them and let them know I'm within a mile of the finish line.

I would think that talking on the phone would be in the same category as listening to music.

Also, rather than trying to read periodic, motivating texts (and not watching where you're going), have your family and friends write mantras or quotes for you. At specific points on the run, repeat one over and over until it's time to move on to the next quote/mantra.

2012-06-26 10:15 AM
in reply to: #4279230

Pro
6191
50001000100252525
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
3.4 i. Unauthorized Accessories. No participant shall, at any time during the event, use or wear a hard cast, headset, radio, personal audio device, or any other item deemed dangerous by the Head Referee. Any violation of this Section shall result in a variable time penalty.Those are USAT rules. A phone is in the gray area. Check your race's specific rules and if they are unclear, contact the race director.
2012-06-26 10:25 AM
in reply to: #4279230

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by jblamb1401 2012-06-26 10:42 AM
2012-06-26 10:30 AM
in reply to: #4279230

Master
1929
100050010010010010025
Midlothian, VA
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

I sure wouldn't want to leave something as valuable and portable as an iPhone sitting in the open in transition....

If you use a Forerunner or other watch it is ON you the entire race. Much safer from thieves.

2012-06-26 11:35 AM
in reply to: #4280933

Master
2327
200010010010025
Columbia, TN
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
faded_memories - 2012-06-26 10:30 AM

I sure wouldn't want to leave something as valuable and portable as an iPhone sitting in the open in transition....

If you use a Forerunner or other watch it is ON you the entire race. Much safer from thieves.

Many people use the larger garmin head units as their navigation, speed and power meter readout.  These are more expensive than an iPhone...but I have heard of them being stolen.

 



2012-06-26 11:38 AM
in reply to: #4279364

Master
2327
200010010010025
Columbia, TN
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

GAUG3 - 2012-06-25 1:55 PM Dang.  I was hoping to take mine so I could get motivating texts from friends and family on the run.  Even call them and let them know I'm within a mile of the finish line.

This is precisely the reason they aren't allowed.  Using your smartphone this way would put you and, more importantly, other racers at risk.  I'm sure they've discussed the valid reason for competitors to have a smartphone and they also know that there will always be someone out on the course that uses it to carry on a dialogue which becomes dangerous and can provide a competitive advantage by virtue of getting live race updates from spotters...

 

 

2012-06-26 1:22 PM
in reply to: #4280917

Chicago
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
jblamb1401 - 2012-06-26 10:25 AM I contacted Charlie Crawford with USAT who provided the following response:

"Back in 2004, we made an exception in our enforcement of 3.4i regarding cell phones. We determined that cell phones have a certain value in the event of an emergency and to outlaw them on the basis of 3.4i (cell phones are radios) needed adjustment. So, our policy is that as long as the cell phone is not being used, no penalty would apply. The use of a cell phone would be permissible if the participant was making no forward progress on the run or standing off the bike during that portion. But here we are 8 years later and now cell phones are also personal audio devices that play music. The rule prevents the participant from using, wearing or carrying a personal audio device. So, an iphone, or other brand that does the same, mounted on the bike would be illegal. GPS devices, like the Garmin are not covered in 3.4i and are legal to use.

Clearly, this is a case where technology has gotten ahead of the rules as we know them. We intend on a review of 3.4i at the end of the season to determine whether it should stay as is, or be amended in some way to allow for smart-phone possession and use. It is not a simple matter as there are always consequences that must be considered for opening up the allowance of new technology."

Glad to see he's being very reasonable and recognizing that technology is changing very quickly and one man's "personal audio device" is another man's bike computer.  They should change this.

2012-06-26 4:11 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Veteran
576
500252525
Maple Grove
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
I'm guessing Gaug3 forgot to use the red sarc font in his message (as best I can tell by his tone). I used this exact system with the Cyclemeter app on my phone at a half-iron a couple of weeks ago. I had the phone on an armband. it was nice, because the app automatically updated my position/distance/pace every hour on my facebook and twitter pages, and my friends and family at home could click on a link that showed my position on a map after every mile. Other than having to start it in T1 and change from cycle to run in T2, I didn't touch it the entire race. It probably cost me a total of :20-:25 seconds total, which was fine with me since this wasn't an A race and several friends who wanted to come had other committments. If i could find a way to use it on the swim without the risk of drowning the phone, I would...
2012-06-26 4:23 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Champion
7704
50002000500100100
Williamston, Michigan
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
I worked penalty tent at a 70.3 once which is where I learned this from Jimmy Ricatello. You are allowed to have the phone with you however you may NOT USE THE PHONE unless you are stopped.  I don't see how using it as a GPS would be against the rules but I could be wrong

Edited by Socks 2012-06-26 4:23 PM
2012-06-26 4:42 PM
in reply to: #4279230

Champion
6962
500010005001001001001002525
Atlanta, Ga
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

As was covered in Charlie's response, Iphones or the such are illegal if being used while racing.  There was an e-mail that went out to the USAT officials that specifically explained the interpretation.

It boiled down to this:  If the phone is out and being used then it's a penalty (assuming you are not stopped on the side of the road).  It comes down to they do not know if you are using it as a GPS, Cyclometer, Music player, etc.  So if it's out and you are moving...it's illegal.



2012-06-26 7:50 PM
in reply to: #4281704

Veteran
441
10010010010025
Clearwater, FL
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

rdailey1 - 2012-06-26 5:11 PM

If i could find a way to use it on the swim without the risk of drowning the phone, I would...

http://www.lifeproof.com/shop/cases/iphone-4-4s

2012-06-27 12:26 AM
in reply to: #4279230

Regular
142
10025
Portland
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

This is really too bad I use my phone as my bike computer now and it's really nice that My family can watch my progress as I go along. I think you should be allowed to use it. Basically its like they are demanding I spent another few hundred dollars to get another device that while nice I don't really need because I have an Iphone. I know triathletes are all rich but... I teach preschool another bike computer is like a quarter of a months salary for me or more. 

I understand the concern, but you can just easily be distracted by looking at your bike computer or for your family or friends on the side. 

2012-06-27 3:56 AM
in reply to: #4279230

Expert
3145
2000100010025
Scottsdale, AZ
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?
Hopefully they don't change the rule.  Iphones and the like have no place on a race course, none.  There are plenty of other ways for family and friends to know how you're doing and plenty of other ways to track speed/power etc.  As soon as they allow them you'll have a thousand idiots using them for music, texting and calling during the event.  
2012-06-27 8:29 AM
in reply to: #4282270

Chicago
Subject: RE: iPhone Legal?

thebigb - 2012-06-27 3:56 AM Hopefully they don't change the rule.  Iphones and the like have no place on a race course, none.  There are plenty of other ways for family and friends to know how you're doing and plenty of other ways to track speed/power etc.  As soon as they allow them you'll have a thousand idiots using them for music, texting and calling during the event.  

This is very close-minded.  Clearly you can see how the lines between "phone" and "bike computer" are being blurred by technology.  Bike computers are perfectly acceptable...but if that bike computer can also be used to make a phone call - even if it's not being used to do so - it's illegal?

I understand that officials can't tell what you're doing if your "phone" is out so I get that it's not an easy thing to officiate and why they don't just embrace it with open arms.  But they should certainly be talking about it and considering options - technology is forcing them to do so.  They definitely shouldn't turn their back on the whole thing, plug their ears and walk out of the room like you seem to be doing.

I don't think a thousand idiots would be using other functions of their "phones" and screwing up your race.  They'd be using it as a bike computer and following the rules.

Also...long course tri's that might not have great support or many people at all in places way out on the bike course....wouldn't you want to be able to make a call if you get injured, break your bike, etc?  Absolutely no place for a phone on a race course, really?

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