Libya and Egypt Attacks
-
No new posts
Moderators: k9car363, the bear, DerekL, alicefoeller | Reply |
|
2012-09-12 9:21 AM |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: Libya and Egypt Attacks Anti-American protesters attack a U.S. embassy and consulate, leaving a U.S. ambassador and several other Americans dead. Some reports indicate an al-Qaida flag was raised over the embassy in Egypt, and the Egyptian president has yet to condemn the riot. The U.S. initially issues an apology to Muslim people for an obscure documentary film made by an American/Israeli citizen that is critical of Islam and may have inflamed tensions. Of course, yesterday also marked the 11th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Meanwhile, in the U.S., President Obama refuses to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu during his U.S. visit later this month regarding the prime minister's concerns with developments in Iran and the Mid-East. What is your take? I can't shake the feeling we are seeing 1979 play out all over again. |
|
2012-09-12 9:30 AM in reply to: #4407320 |
Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks Just posted a thread and you beat me to it. I'll post my comment here. Sad to hear about the US Ambassador in Libya. My prayers go out to The people on both those diplomatic missions. I hope the Marines who are moving toward Tripoli never have a reason to point a weapon. I grew up an Embassy brat in Mexico and Guatemala. We had attempted coups (golpes) so regularly in Guatemala that they were planned into the school schedule like snow days. As a kid, we thought it was great. Our non-embassy friends would come to our house and stay for a few days (we had a guard on the house during these) and we'd have a good time. Little did we know then that was because it was a civil war and we were very valuable targets. Our diplomats are the outstretched hands of our country and the majority of them know the dangers and do a great job across administrations. Sad day. |
2012-09-12 9:49 AM in reply to: #4407320 |
Pro 9391 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks Agree, it's a sad day. I think from a political standpoint this is going to force the President to defend his foreign policy strategy with the Arab Spring and Israel. One could argue that Obama is almost weaker on foreign policy than he is on the economy. I honestly don't understand for the life of me what Obama is doing with Israel. I will give him one thing, he's ignoring the political consequences for whatever agenda he's working towards. |
2012-09-12 9:56 AM in reply to: #4407320 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks This is too close to 9/11 for me to really buy into the "someone not from the USA that lives in California, made a movie where scenes got on youtube so we are rioting" Parading the dead body in the streets. Reports that the security forces told the rioters which building the envoy was moved to... Just difficult for me to believe that right now |
2012-09-12 10:04 AM in reply to: #4407320 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 9:21 AM Anti-American protesters attack a U.S. embassy and consulate, leaving a U.S. ambassador and several other Americans dead. Some reports indicate an al-Qaida flag was raised over the embassy in Egypt, and the Egyptian president has yet to condemn the riot. The U.S. initially issues an apology to Muslim people for an obscure documentary film made by an American/Israeli citizen that is critical of Islam and may have inflamed tensions. Of course, yesterday also marked the 11th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. Meanwhile, in the U.S., President Obama refuses to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu during his U.S. visit later this month regarding the prime minister's concerns with developments in Iran and the Mid-East. What is your take? I can't shake the feeling we are seeing 1979 play out all over again. The flag they flew was not an al qaeda flag, it has scripture written in Arabic say `Mohammed is the only god' or some such thing that makes it look similar to scripture al qaeda uses. In fact it's a commonly used scripture by conservative Muslims, all of whom are NOT al qaeda. Obama has condemned the attacks while saying the filmmaker's choice to attack another religion was wrong. Finally, Netenyahu has said Obama refused to meet while Obama says no meeting was requested. It's a he-said he- The main point of contention between the U.S. and Israeli governments right now is that the Obama Administration doesn't like that Israel is basically telling us how to conduct our foreign policy with regards to Iran, saying we MUST draw a line on their nuclear weapons development. Personally I agree and disagree with Obama. I agree that we shouldn't let a foreign government dictate our foreign policy, but I think we should be taking a harder stance with Iran. |
2012-09-12 10:12 AM in reply to: #4407444 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:04 AM The flag they flew was not an al qaeda flag, it has scripture written in Arabic say `Mohammed is the only god' Obama has condemned the attacks while saying the filmmaker's choice to attack another religion was wrong. That alone is an interesting juxtaposition of statements. So... how is there a moral equivalency in killing a U.S. ambassador and several other Americans in supposed retaliation for some rinky-dink documentary film made by an Israeli living in America (and it just happens to take place on 9/11)? |
|
2012-09-12 10:18 AM in reply to: #4407444 |
Champion 17756 SoCal | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks mr2tony - 2012-09-12 8:04 AM Obama has condemned the attacks while saying the filmmaker's choice to attack another religion was wrong. Why would be using free speech be wrong? I haven’t seen the this video so I don't know if it's hate speech or just a contradictory view but either way I think if you speak out against someone they retort in violence it's wrong. |
2012-09-12 10:45 AM in reply to: #4407497 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks Big Appa - 2012-09-12 11:18 AM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 8:04 AM Obama has condemned the attacks while saying the filmmaker's choice to attack another religion was wrong. Why would be using free speech be wrong? I haven’t seen the this video so I don't know if it's hate speech or just a contradictory view but either way I think if you speak out against someone they retort in violence it's wrong. Mohamed al-Zawahiri -- the brother of al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri -- added, "We called for the peaceful protest joined by different Islamic factions including the Islamicc Jihad (and the) Hazem Abu Ismael movement." "We were surprised to see the big numbers show up, including the soccer Ultra fans," he said. "I just want to say, how would the Americans feel if films insulting leading Christian figures like the pope or historical figures like Abraham Lincoln were produced? How would we react? There might be protests, but we damn sure wouldn't be killing people. Freedom of speech, even though it may be hateful or disgusting, is a constitutional right and a cornerstone of our legal and societal systems. Civilized people respond in a civilized manner. |
2012-09-12 10:47 AM in reply to: #4407473 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 10:12 AM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:04 AM The flag they flew was not an al qaeda flag, it has scripture written in Arabic say `Mohammed is the only god' Obama has condemned the attacks while saying the filmmaker's choice to attack another religion was wrong. That alone is an interesting juxtaposition of statements. So... how is there a moral equivalency in killing a U.S. ambassador and several other Americans in supposed retaliation for some rinky-dink documentary film made by an Israeli living in America (and it just happens to take place on 9/11)? I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. And the Obama Administration's statements are in agreement with one another -- attacking a religion is bad, as is attacking and killing people in the name of religion. Attacking one's religion is a bad thing because it shows religious intolerance regardless of the religion being attacked, wouldn't you agree? Now, while the filmmaker was an idiot, no, it doesn't justify any sort of violent attacks on ANYONE, especially to the scale of what we saw in Libya and Egypt. People attacking and killing in the name of religion -- this is why I'm an atheist. |
2012-09-12 10:51 AM in reply to: #4407497 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks Big Appa - 2012-09-12 10:18 AM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 8:04 AM Obama has condemned the attacks while saying the filmmaker's choice to attack another religion was wrong. Why would be using free speech be wrong? I haven’t seen the this video so I don't know if it's hate speech or just a contradictory view but either way I think if you speak out against someone they retort in violence it's wrong. I never said using free speech is wrong. But just because it's your right doesn't make it right. People say racist, sexist, religionist, whatever-ist things all the time. Sure they can do it, but does that make it right? Violence is never the answer, that's a given in a civilized society. |
2012-09-12 10:54 AM in reply to: #4407567 |
Champion 8540 the colony texas | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-09-12 10:45 AM Big Appa - 2012-09-12 11:18 AM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 8:04 AM Obama has condemned the attacks while saying the filmmaker's choice to attack another religion was wrong. Why would be using free speech be wrong? I haven’t seen the this video so I don't know if it's hate speech or just a contradictory view but either way I think if you speak out against someone they retort in violence it's wrong. Mohamed al-Zawahiri -- the brother of al Qaeda leader Ayman al-Zawahiri -- added, "We called for the peaceful protest joined by different Islamic factions including the Islamicc Jihad (and the) Hazem Abu Ismael movement." "We were surprised to see the big numbers show up, including the soccer Ultra fans," he said. "I just want to say, how would the Americans feel if films insulting leading Christian figures like the pope or historical figures like Abraham Lincoln were produced? How would we react? There might be protests, but we damn sure wouldn't be killing people. Freedom of speech, even though it may be hateful or disgusting, is a constitutional right and a cornerstone of our legal and societal systems. Civilized people respond in a civilized manner.
Exactly it happens quite often actually.. South Park is pretty good about picking on everything, but even when they were going to do show on Muhammad Comedy Central edited them quite a bit. That Never happed for all the episodes of thier Jesus character. (which were quite funny) . Maybe Christians are just used to it or have a better sense of humor. It might be me or what gets reported but it seems that when ever Muhammad is going to be portrayed poorly, certain groups of muslim object by using threats of violence or actual violence |
|
2012-09-12 11:00 AM in reply to: #4407571 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:47 AM I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities". Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world. Edited by scoobysdad 2012-09-12 11:01 AM |
2012-09-12 11:07 AM in reply to: #4407624 |
Master 4101 Denver | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 10:00 AM Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. |
2012-09-12 11:09 AM in reply to: #4407624 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 11:00 AM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:47 AM I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities". Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world. I agree with you on all counts (edit) except the last statement about how the president reserves his passion. I feel he should've said `Yes the guy's an idiot but he is also an American idiot, and therefore has the right to express his idiocy. Furthermore, we've decided to stop giving money and other assistance to Libya and Egypt because they obviuosly don't value us as an ally if they're allowing their people to kill our ambassadors and troops and attacking our embassies. Also, any more attacks on our embassies, which are in fact considered U.S. soil, will be seen as an act of aggression and we will defend ourselves.' But that's not very diplomatic, I guess. Edited by mr2tony 2012-09-12 11:12 AM |
2012-09-12 11:18 AM in reply to: #4407624 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 12:00 PM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:47 AM I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities". Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world. I think he was pretty clear in his address this morning. I would also argue he has pretty good credibility in the use of deadly force when pursuing terrorists. From Fox News- President Obama condemned the "outrageous and shocking" attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that left the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans dead, as he and other officials vowed to "bring justice" to the killers while moving quickly to bolster security in Libya and at other diplomatic posts. "Make no mistake. Justice will be done," Obama said, speaking from the Rose Garden alongside Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "Make no mistake. We will work with the Libyan government to bring justice to killers who attack our people," Obama said, adding: "There is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None."
|
2012-09-12 11:21 AM in reply to: #4407663 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-09-12 11:18 AM scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 12:00 PM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:47 AM I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities". Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world. I think he was pretty clear in his address this morning. I would also argue he has pretty good credibility in the use of deadly force when pursuing terrorists. From Fox News- President Obama condemned the "outrageous and shocking" attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that left the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans dead, as he and other officials vowed to "bring justice" to the killers while moving quickly to bolster security in Libya and at other diplomatic posts. "Make no mistake. Justice will be done," Obama said, speaking from the Rose Garden alongside Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "Make no mistake. We will work with the Libyan government to bring justice to killers who attack our people," Obama said, adding: "There is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None."
New reports across the wire saying that U.S. sources reporting the Libya attack was planned by extremists who used the confusion and riots as a diversion to attack the ambassador. |
|
2012-09-12 11:36 AM in reply to: #4407673 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks mr2tony - 2012-09-12 11:21 AM BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-09-12 11:18 AM scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 12:00 PM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:47 AM I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities". Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world. I think he was pretty clear in his address this morning. I would also argue he has pretty good credibility in the use of deadly force when pursuing terrorists. From Fox News- President Obama condemned the "outrageous and shocking" attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that left the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans dead, as he and other officials vowed to "bring justice" to the killers while moving quickly to bolster security in Libya and at other diplomatic posts. "Make no mistake. Justice will be done," Obama said, speaking from the Rose Garden alongside Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "Make no mistake. We will work with the Libyan government to bring justice to killers who attack our people," Obama said, adding: "There is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None."
New reports across the wire saying that U.S. sources reporting the Libya attack was planned by extremists who used the confusion and riots as a diversion to attack the ambassador. What about the attack in Egypt? Why did Obama not even mention the attack on the U.S. consulate in Egypt in his address? Why the initial apology by the U.S. embassy? http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.html They certainly seem to be drawing some measure of moral equivalency between speech and violence there. |
2012-09-12 11:38 AM in reply to: #4407320 |
Extreme Veteran 787 The Woodlands/Magnolia, TX. | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks i saw an interview last night where an analyst for some terrorism and foreign affairs think-tank said that this kind of action in Libya and Egypt is becuase a growing majority of people of these countries don't distinquish the difference between an 'american individual' and the 'american governmet'. so when some individual american yahoo mouths off or makes a ignorant video the people in these countries imediately blame the U.S. as a whole. i definately agree with that statement and i think this kind of logic will only cause things to, unfortunately, get worse before they get better. the quran burnings are another example...some idiots burn some qurans to show their personal beliefs, and the response from those same populations in muslim countries was that all americans should die. |
2012-09-12 11:43 AM in reply to: #4407663 |
Extreme Veteran 787 The Woodlands/Magnolia, TX. | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-09-12 11:18 AM From Fox News- President Obama condemned the "outrageous and shocking" attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that left the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans dead, as he and other officials vowed to "bring justice" to the killers while moving quickly to bolster security in Libya and at other diplomatic posts. "Make no mistake. Justice will be done," Obama said, speaking from the Rose Garden alongside Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "Make no mistake. We will work with the Libyan government to bring justice to killers who attack our people," Obama said, adding: "There is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None." i hope he means, "we'll give the Libyan govt a chance to help, but if they don't, we'll hunt them down on our own...no matter what anyone says. becuase that's what happens when you mess with us." |
2012-09-12 11:45 AM in reply to: #4407710 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 12:36 PM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 11:21 AM What about the attack in Egypt? Why did Obama not even mention the attack on the U.S. consulate in Egypt in his address? Why the initial apology by the U.S. embassy? http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.htmlThey certainly seem to be drawing some measure of moral equivalency between speech and violence there. BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-09-12 11:18 AM New reports across the wire saying that U.S. sources reporting the Libya attack was planned by extremists who used the confusion and riots as a diversion to attack the ambassador. scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 12:00 PM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:47 AM I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities". Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world. I think he was pretty clear in his address this morning. I would also argue he has pretty good credibility in the use of deadly force when pursuing terrorists. From Fox News- President Obama condemned the "outrageous and shocking" attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that left the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans dead, as he and other officials vowed to "bring justice" to the killers while moving quickly to bolster security in Libya and at other diplomatic posts. "Make no mistake. Justice will be done," Obama said, speaking from the Rose Garden alongside Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "Make no mistake. We will work with the Libyan government to bring justice to killers who attack our people," Obama said, adding: "There is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None."
It's not an apology, it's a statement trying to separate the beliefs of an individual from those of the Embassy and US Government. It was released BEFORE the attacks. I can only assume Obama did not mention Egypt as his speech was focused on Stevens and the deaths in Libya. |
2012-09-12 11:47 AM in reply to: #4407710 |
Champion 15211 Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 11:36 AM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 11:21 AM What about the attack in Egypt? Why did Obama not even mention the attack on the U.S. consulate in Egypt in his address? Why the initial apology by the U.S. embassy? http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.htmlThey certainly seem to be drawing some measure of moral equivalency between speech and violence there. BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-09-12 11:18 AM New reports across the wire saying that U.S. sources reporting the Libya attack was planned by extremists who used the confusion and riots as a diversion to attack the ambassador. scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 12:00 PM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:47 AM I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities". Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world. I think he was pretty clear in his address this morning. I would also argue he has pretty good credibility in the use of deadly force when pursuing terrorists. From Fox News- President Obama condemned the "outrageous and shocking" attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that left the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans dead, as he and other officials vowed to "bring justice" to the killers while moving quickly to bolster security in Libya and at other diplomatic posts. "Make no mistake. Justice will be done," Obama said, speaking from the Rose Garden alongside Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "Make no mistake. We will work with the Libyan government to bring justice to killers who attack our people," Obama said, adding: "There is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None."
Sorry. I don't see an apology in that link. |
|
2012-09-12 12:09 PM in reply to: #4407710 |
Champion 34263 Chicago | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 11:36 AM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 11:21 AM BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-09-12 11:18 AM scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 12:00 PM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:47 AM I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities". Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world. I think he was pretty clear in his address this morning. I would also argue he has pretty good credibility in the use of deadly force when pursuing terrorists. From Fox News- President Obama condemned the "outrageous and shocking" attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that left the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans dead, as he and other officials vowed to "bring justice" to the killers while moving quickly to bolster security in Libya and at other diplomatic posts. "Make no mistake. Justice will be done," Obama said, speaking from the Rose Garden alongside Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "Make no mistake. We will work with the Libyan government to bring justice to killers who attack our people," Obama said, adding: "There is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None."
New reports across the wire saying that U.S. sources reporting the Libya attack was planned by extremists who used the confusion and riots as a diversion to attack the ambassador. What about the attack in Egypt? Why did Obama not even mention the attack on the U.S. consulate in Egypt in his address? Why the initial apology by the U.S. embassy? http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.html They certainly seem to be drawing some measure of moral equivalency between speech and violence there. Are you reading the same document I am? First, he doesn't apologize. Second, where are you seeing him equating the attack on Islam to murder? The statement simply says that America condemns the filmmaker attacking Islam. And goes on to say that freedom of religious beliefs is a cornerstone of democracy. You don't agree with that??? I agree with the statement -- attacking Islam is idiocy and intolerant. Nowhere does it say that the film justifies the murder of the ambassador, so where is the measure of moral equivalency? |
2012-09-12 1:36 PM in reply to: #4407799 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks mr2tony - 2012-09-12 12:09 PM scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 11:36 AM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 11:21 AM BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-09-12 11:18 AM scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 12:00 PM mr2tony - 2012-09-12 10:47 AM I dont recall anybody saying there was a moral equivelancy other than you. My point is that is that is obviously the position of these terrorists. And if it's true that Libyan security forces looked the other way or even participated in this murder, that can be seen as the position of Libyan "authorities". Our response deserves far more than an apology by our President for the views expressed by a private citizen and a weak statement in which he doesn't even DEMAND that the murderers of a U.S. ambassador be brought to justice and doesn't even mention the attack in Egypt. It seems like Mr. Obama reserves his passion and gift for high-minded rhetoric for re-election speeches and not for important statements in which he represents the U.S. to the world. I think he was pretty clear in his address this morning. I would also argue he has pretty good credibility in the use of deadly force when pursuing terrorists. From Fox News- President Obama condemned the "outrageous and shocking" attack on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi that left the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans dead, as he and other officials vowed to "bring justice" to the killers while moving quickly to bolster security in Libya and at other diplomatic posts. "Make no mistake. Justice will be done," Obama said, speaking from the Rose Garden alongside Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "Make no mistake. We will work with the Libyan government to bring justice to killers who attack our people," Obama said, adding: "There is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None."
New reports across the wire saying that U.S. sources reporting the Libya attack was planned by extremists who used the confusion and riots as a diversion to attack the ambassador. What about the attack in Egypt? Why did Obama not even mention the attack on the U.S. consulate in Egypt in his address? Why the initial apology by the U.S. embassy? http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.html They certainly seem to be drawing some measure of moral equivalency between speech and violence there. Are you reading the same document I am? First, he doesn't apologize. Second, where are you seeing him equating the attack on Islam to murder? The statement simply says that America condemns the filmmaker attacking Islam. And goes on to say that freedom of religious beliefs is a cornerstone of democracy. You don't agree with that??? I agree with the statement -- attacking Islam is idiocy and intolerant. Nowhere does it say that the film justifies the murder of the ambassador, so where is the measure of moral equivalency? After a violent attack on a US consulate, the FIRST THING condemned by the very embassy in that country is the intolerant views of a private citizen nominally from its own country. I see that as the US government just about accepting responsibility for those views and excusing the subsequent attack in retaliation. Yes, I see such an excuse and acceptance as a borderline apology and, yes, I see that as setting up a moral equivalency. It also smacks of the "America's chickens are coming home to roost" statement by Obama's pastor and spiritual mentor, Jeremiah Wright, shortly after the 9/11 attacks. Speaking of which, I also find it curious why more attention has not been placed upon the fact that these attacks were a celebration of the 9/11 attack rather than in response to some insignificant youtube videos placed by a private citizen. Which seems more likely (especially considering those videos were originally posted in JULY)? Seems like the mainstream press is getting gamed here. Edited by scoobysdad 2012-09-12 1:38 PM |
2012-09-12 2:06 PM in reply to: #4407962 |
Pro 3906 St Charles, IL | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 1:36 PM After a violent attack on a US consulate, the FIRST THING condemned by the very embassy in that country is the intolerant views of a private citizen nominally from its own country. I see that as the US government just about accepting responsibility for those views and excusing the subsequent attack in retaliation. Yes, I see such an excuse and acceptance as a borderline apology and, yes, I see that as setting up a moral equivalency. It also smacks of the "America's chickens are coming home to roost" statement by Obama's pastor and spiritual mentor, Jeremiah Wright, shortly after the 9/11 attacks. Speaking of which, I also find it curious why more attention has not been placed upon the fact that these attacks were a celebration of the 9/11 attack rather than in response to some insignificant youtube videos placed by a private citizen. Which seems more likely (especially considering those videos were originally posted in JULY)? Seems like the mainstream press is getting gamed here. Even Al Jazeera isn't claiming what you're claiming. I personally think you have a skewed world view and see everything through that filter, but you're welcome to your opinion. As for the timing, it's getting attention now, because it was just aired and made public in Egypt on Sept 8th, in Arabic. Spread on social media How did an obscure film come to have international ramifications? A trailer of the film was first posted on YouTube by a user called "sam bacile" in July 2012, and has received about 11,000 views to date. The trailer began to get much more attention in September. On September 4, the same user posted a version dubbed in Arabic, which has garnered more than 70,000 views. Morris Sadek, a Coptic Christian born in Egypt but who lives in the US, told AP he had been promoting the film on his website. He also tweeted a link to the trailer on September 9. Sadek, the head of the National American Coptic Assembly, is known for his vehemently anti-Islam views, and told the Wall Street Journal that “the violence that it [the film] caused in Egypt is further evidence of how violent the religion and people are”. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/201291214042970150.html So, it's become an issue because people ( with an anti-islamic agenda ) who know exactly what sort of reaction they can provoke are stirring up trouble and kicking a hornet's nest. |
2012-09-12 2:41 PM in reply to: #4408025 |
Champion 6056 Menomonee Falls, WI | Subject: RE: Libya and Egypt Attacks coredump - 2012-09-12 2:06 PM scoobysdad - 2012-09-12 1:36 PM After a violent attack on a US consulate, the FIRST THING condemned by the very embassy in that country is the intolerant views of a private citizen nominally from its own country. I see that as the US government just about accepting responsibility for those views and excusing the subsequent attack in retaliation. Yes, I see such an excuse and acceptance as a borderline apology and, yes, I see that as setting up a moral equivalency. It also smacks of the "America's chickens are coming home to roost" statement by Obama's pastor and spiritual mentor, Jeremiah Wright, shortly after the 9/11 attacks. Speaking of which, I also find it curious why more attention has not been placed upon the fact that these attacks were a celebration of the 9/11 attack rather than in response to some insignificant youtube videos placed by a private citizen. Which seems more likely (especially considering those videos were originally posted in JULY)? Seems like the mainstream press is getting gamed here. Even Al Jazeera isn't claiming what you're claiming. I personally think you have a skewed world view and see everything through that filter, but you're welcome to your opinion. As for the timing, it's getting attention now, because it was just aired and made public in Egypt on Sept 8th, in Arabic. Spread on social media How did an obscure film come to have international ramifications? A trailer of the film was first posted on YouTube by a user called "sam bacile" in July 2012, and has received about 11,000 views to date. The trailer began to get much more attention in September. On September 4, the same user posted a version dubbed in Arabic, which has garnered more than 70,000 views. Morris Sadek, a Coptic Christian born in Egypt but who lives in the US, told AP he had been promoting the film on his website. He also tweeted a link to the trailer on September 9. Sadek, the head of the National American Coptic Assembly, is known for his vehemently anti-Islam views, and told the Wall Street Journal that “the violence that it [the film] caused in Egypt is further evidence of how violent the religion and people are”. http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/201291214042970150.html So, it's become an issue because people ( with an anti-islamic agenda ) who know exactly what sort of reaction they can provoke are stirring up trouble and kicking a hornet's nest. I'm sorry, which fact represents my skewed world view? The fact that the US Embassy in Cairo condemns the views expressed by a private citizen after violent attacks against two US embassies/consulates in two different nations, resulting in the murder of several embassy staff? The fact the attacks occurred on 9/11? The fact we have a president who, for over 20 years, attended mass at a church led by a minister who vehemently blamed the US following the original 9/11 attacks? Exactly which of those facts is the result of my my "skewed world view"? |
|