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What do you think of early voting?
OptionResults
Yes, I like early voting52 Votes - [72.22%]
No, I don't like early voting20 Votes - [27.78%]

2012-10-19 3:02 PM

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Subject: What do you think of early voting?

I was reading through the "who would you vote for thread" and saw a couple mentions of early voting.  I didn't want to sidetrack that thread so I'll ask it here.

Do you like early voting and think it's a good thing?

I'm not entirely sure why I don't like it, but for some reason it just doesn't seem right.  I'm all for absentee voting and it makes a lot of sense for people who are out of state, but the mail me a ballot 5 weeks before the election and fill it out and mail it back just seems weird to me when I'm 2 blocks away from my polling location.

So if I try to rationalize my thoughts on it, it boils down to two things 1) potential fraud, and 2) voting without full information.

There is a very strict chain of custody at polling stations where there are observers from both parties watching the whole process and ensuring nothing happens to the ballots.  With the mail in ballots this doesn't start until the ballots get to the polling people.  A pro Romney mailman could toss ballots all day long from heavy democrat districts and who would know?  Yes it would be illegal, but there's a huge gap in the chain of custody in my opinion.

The other part that bothers me is people voting without all information.  If you vote 5 weeks before the election you haven't heard any debates and miss all the October surprises (ok maybe that's a good thing).  Perhaps this isn't a huge issue because hard core right/left people are the ones mailing off early and the undecided voters wait longer but I'm just guessing.

So, it's not the biggest controversy in the world for me, but I'm just curious what you guys think.



2012-10-19 3:10 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.


2012-10-19 3:13 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
I gave my opinion on this earlier.
2012-10-19 3:24 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Veteran
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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?

My father could have mailed his ballot in 47 months ago.  He's voted Republican in every election for 3 straight decades, and Obama sure isn't going to be the candidate that changes that.  I think at this point Romney could introduce a polygamist second wife and Obama could release his Kenyan birth certificate and it still wouldn't change how the overwhelming majority of the population will vote.

As for voter fraud, you don't really think they're counting ballots do you?  They just sit back and wait for Fox News/MSNBC to call a state.

2012-10-19 3:40 PM
in reply to: #4461123

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
those mail in ballets are only counted if number of mail in ballots > margin of victory.  In other words if you one but 100,000 votes why bother counting 20,000 of unknown votes.
2012-10-19 3:48 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Elite
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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?

The flip side of this question is do you think you learn anything that would change your mind in the last 5 weeks?

What would it takes from Romney for you to vote for Obama? Probably something drastic like child molestation or something and even then I think he'd still have a decent showing.



2012-10-19 3:52 PM
in reply to: #4461096

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 3:10 PM I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.

According to a DoJ study it is  .00000013 percent. 

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Minnite.pdf 

Linked for reference.

So my question to you is that too much for you?  If so, how low do you think it should be?

 

2012-10-19 3:58 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
tuwood - 2012-10-19 3:02 PM

I was reading through the "who would you vote for thread" and saw a couple mentions of early voting.  I didn't want to sidetrack that thread so I'll ask it here.

Do you like early voting and think it's a good thing?

I'm not entirely sure why I don't like it, but for some reason it just doesn't seem right.  I'm all for absentee voting and it makes a lot of sense for people who are out of state, but the mail me a ballot 5 weeks before the election and fill it out and mail it back just seems weird to me when I'm 2 blocks away from my polling location.

So if I try to rationalize my thoughts on it, it boils down to two things 1) potential fraud, and 2) voting without full information.

There is a very strict chain of custody at polling stations where there are observers from both parties watching the whole process and ensuring nothing happens to the ballots.  With the mail in ballots this doesn't start until the ballots get to the polling people.  A pro Romney mailman could toss ballots all day long from heavy democrat districts and who would know?  Yes it would be illegal, but there's a huge gap in the chain of custody in my opinion.

The other part that bothers me is people voting without all information.  If you vote 5 weeks before the election you haven't heard any debates and miss all the October surprises (ok maybe that's a good thing).  Perhaps this isn't a huge issue because hard core right/left people are the ones mailing off early and the undecided voters wait longer but I'm just guessing.

So, it's not the biggest controversy in the world for me, but I'm just curious what you guys think.

There's in-person early voting, and mail-in/absentee early voting.

I think it's a good thing, as it gives more people a greater opportunity to participate.

We're probably all pretty fortunate to have jobs with enough flexibility to come in late or leave early on election day to vote in-person at our normal polling place.  That's not always the case for everyone or every polling station.  We see on the news every election of lines outside polling places.  I also see this as benefiting the person who has to travel for their job, and does not always know far enough in advance to request an absentee ballot.

Of the two types, I think in-person early voting is the better option to expand.  It's in-person, just like normal voting, so it mitigates the fraud concerns you raise.

Also, in most places ( check your applicable laws ), the absentee/provisional/mail-in ballots are not counted unless the margin of victory is less than the number of ballots outstanding.

2012-10-19 4:07 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Champion
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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
I am against early voting. Because then I'd have to get up earlier in the day. And that rampant voter fraud, just can't get enough of that rampant voter fraud. Something needs to be done about all that fraud!
2012-10-19 4:17 PM
in reply to: #4461086

Master
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, California
Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?

My state is ALL mail-in ballots now.  Works fine, in fact I think there's probably more participation this way.

 

Edit:

There is a very strict chain of custody at polling stations where there are observers from both parties watching the whole process and ensuring nothing happens to the ballots.  With the mail in ballots this doesn't start until the ballots get to the polling people.  A pro Romney mailman could toss ballots all day long from heavy democrat districts and who would know?  Yes it would be illegal, but there's a huge gap in the chain of custody in my opinion.

Frankly, I have more faith in our postal workers than I do in our political system / people who handle polling stations.  Considering the bulk of OTHER mail that goes through their system, and the fact that mail-in voters don't all send their ballots on the same day, I think it'd be a monumental task to rig the system in the way you're describing.

And aside from that, I'd say partisan state governments mess with polling stations more than the mail system - for example - making them more spread out in districts they don't favor.

The mail-in balloting still requires voter registration, which is another trouble spot for partisan trickery, but on balance I think mail-in ballots work well.



Edited by spudone 2012-10-19 4:25 PM
2012-10-19 4:18 PM
in reply to: #4461171

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
crowny2 - 2012-10-19 3:52 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 3:10 PM I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.

According to a DoJ study it is  .00000013 percent. 

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Minnite.pdf 

Linked for reference.

So my question to you is that too much for you?  If so, how low do you think it should be?

 




Yes, it's amazing how they don't find what they don't look for and have no way of proving after the crimes are committed.

In an anonymous voting system, it's self-evident that the only way to maintain its integrity is to prevent fraud up front.

Most of us don't live in high crime areas, either. In fact, the chances that our houses or cars will be broken into are infinitesimally small. But I'll bet we all still lock our doors when we leave. We may even have alarm systems. Why? Because it's common sense in order to safeguard our stuff.

I can't think of anything more worth safeguarding than the integrity of our votes.

Oh, and looky here, a person sentenced for vote fraud right in my neck of the woods just this week.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/174211971.html

Heck, we even have some people in positions of authority ASSISTING voter fraud. Sometimes, they get fired... but only if they're caught and someone makes a big deal about it.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/11/dnc-fires-obama-campaign-staffer-...








Edited by scoobysdad 2012-10-19 4:25 PM


2012-10-19 4:26 PM
in reply to: #4461198

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:18 PM
crowny2 - 2012-10-19 3:52 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 3:10 PM I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.

According to a DoJ study it is  .00000013 percent. 

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Minnite.pdf 

Linked for reference.

So my question to you is that too much for you?  If so, how low do you think it should be?

 

Yes, it's amazing how they don't find what they don't look for and have no way of proving after the crimes are committed. In an anonymous voting system, it's self-evident that the only way to maintain its integrity is to prevent fraud up front. Most of us don't live in high crime areas, either. In fact, the chances that our houses or cars will be broken into are infinitesimally small. But I'll bet we all still lock our doors when we leave. We may even have alarm systems. Why? Because it's common sense in order to safeguard our stuff. I can't think of anything more worth safeguarding than the integrity of our votes. Oh, and looky here, a person sentenced for vote fraud right in my neck of the woods just this week. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/174211971.html

And she was caught, and punished.  Sounds like the system worked.

Where's your outrage over this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-campaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10/19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html

The latter cast disenfranchises quite a few more voters than the case you cited.

 

2012-10-19 4:41 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
If it wasn't for early voting I wouldn't be able to vote in more than one state!
2012-10-19 4:43 PM
in reply to: #4461212

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
coredump - 2012-10-19 4:26 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:18 PM
crowny2 - 2012-10-19 3:52 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 3:10 PM I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.

According to a DoJ study it is  .00000013 percent. 

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Minnite.pdf 

Linked for reference.

So my question to you is that too much for you?  If so, how low do you think it should be?

 

Yes, it's amazing how they don't find what they don't look for and have no way of proving after the crimes are committed. In an anonymous voting system, it's self-evident that the only way to maintain its integrity is to prevent fraud up front. Most of us don't live in high crime areas, either. In fact, the chances that our houses or cars will be broken into are infinitesimally small. But I'll bet we all still lock our doors when we leave. We may even have alarm systems. Why? Because it's common sense in order to safeguard our stuff. I can't think of anything more worth safeguarding than the integrity of our votes. Oh, and looky here, a person sentenced for vote fraud right in my neck of the woods just this week. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/174211971.html

And she was caught, and punished.  Sounds like the system worked.

Where's your outrage over this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-campaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10/19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html

The latter cast disenfranchises quite a few more voters than the case you cited.

 



How many aren't caught? Aren't punished? Where are the in-depth DoJ studies and estimates about how much voter fraud exists but isn't caught? Why does the DoJ fight so hard against states who want to purge their voter roles of ineligible and deceased voters?

I don't care which party vote fraud favors, it's illegal and we should take common sense steps to prevent it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you don't participate enough in society to have/get a free state-provided ID, you probably don't participate enough in society to be eligible to vote.






2012-10-19 4:53 PM
in reply to: #4461233

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:43 PM

coredump - 2012-10-19 4:26 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:18 PM
crowny2 - 2012-10-19 3:52 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 3:10 PM I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.

According to a DoJ study it is  .00000013 percent. 

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Minnite.pdf 

Linked for reference.

So my question to you is that too much for you?  If so, how low do you think it should be?

 

Yes, it's amazing how they don't find what they don't look for and have no way of proving after the crimes are committed. In an anonymous voting system, it's self-evident that the only way to maintain its integrity is to prevent fraud up front. Most of us don't live in high crime areas, either. In fact, the chances that our houses or cars will be broken into are infinitesimally small. But I'll bet we all still lock our doors when we leave. We may even have alarm systems. Why? Because it's common sense in order to safeguard our stuff. I can't think of anything more worth safeguarding than the integrity of our votes. Oh, and looky here, a person sentenced for vote fraud right in my neck of the woods just this week. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/174211971.html

And she was caught, and punished.  Sounds like the system worked.

Where's your outrage over this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-campaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10/19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html

The latter cast disenfranchises quite a few more voters than the case you cited.

 



How many aren't caught? Aren't punished? Where are the in-depth DoJ studies and estimates about how much voter fraud exists but isn't caught? Why does the DoJ fight so hard against states who want to purge their voter roles of ineligible and deceased voters?

I don't care which party vote fraud favors, it's illegal and we should take common sense steps to prevent it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you don't participate enough in society to have/get a free state-provided ID, you probably don't participate enough in society to be eligible to vote.


We already have ``common sense steps to prevent it.'' Why should we add another layer of government intervention.

For someone who touts less government, you sure do promote more government intervention in people's lives a lot.

And the arguments have been rehashed on here ad nauseam about why some people can't get an ID. You either didn't read them or choose to ignore them. My guess is it's the latter.
2012-10-19 4:57 PM
in reply to: #4461244

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Master
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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
mr2tony - 2012-10-19 4:53 PM
scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:43 PM
coredump - 2012-10-19 4:26 PM
scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:18 PM
crowny2 - 2012-10-19 3:52 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 3:10 PM I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.

According to a DoJ study it is  .00000013 percent. 

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Minnite.pdf 

Linked for reference.

So my question to you is that too much for you?  If so, how low do you think it should be?

 

Yes, it's amazing how they don't find what they don't look for and have no way of proving after the crimes are committed. In an anonymous voting system, it's self-evident that the only way to maintain its integrity is to prevent fraud up front. Most of us don't live in high crime areas, either. In fact, the chances that our houses or cars will be broken into are infinitesimally small. But I'll bet we all still lock our doors when we leave. We may even have alarm systems. Why? Because it's common sense in order to safeguard our stuff. I can't think of anything more worth safeguarding than the integrity of our votes. Oh, and looky here, a person sentenced for vote fraud right in my neck of the woods just this week. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/174211971.html

And she was caught, and punished.  Sounds like the system worked.

Where's your outrage over this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-campaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10/19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html

The latter cast disenfranchises quite a few more voters than the case you cited.

 

How many aren't caught? Aren't punished? Where are the in-depth DoJ studies and estimates about how much voter fraud exists but isn't caught? Why does the DoJ fight so hard against states who want to purge their voter roles of ineligible and deceased voters? I don't care which party vote fraud favors, it's illegal and we should take common sense steps to prevent it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you don't participate enough in society to have/get a free state-provided ID, you probably don't participate enough in society to be eligible to vote.
We already have ``common sense steps to prevent it.'' Why should we add another layer of government intervention. For someone who touts less government, you sure do promote more government intervention in people's lives a lot. And the arguments have been rehashed on here ad nauseam about why some people can't get an ID. You either didn't read them or choose to ignore them. My guess is it's the latter.

Oh, and getting a good fake ID is nigh-on impossible I am sure.  Just ask any 19 year old...



2012-10-19 5:09 PM
in reply to: #4461248

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Elite
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Boise
Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
ejshowers - 2012-10-19 3:57 PM
mr2tony - 2012-10-19 4:53 PM
scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:43 PM
coredump - 2012-10-19 4:26 PM
scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:18 PM
crowny2 - 2012-10-19 3:52 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 3:10 PM I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.

According to a DoJ study it is  .00000013 percent. 

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Minnite.pdf 

Linked for reference.

So my question to you is that too much for you?  If so, how low do you think it should be?

 

Yes, it's amazing how they don't find what they don't look for and have no way of proving after the crimes are committed. In an anonymous voting system, it's self-evident that the only way to maintain its integrity is to prevent fraud up front. Most of us don't live in high crime areas, either. In fact, the chances that our houses or cars will be broken into are infinitesimally small. But I'll bet we all still lock our doors when we leave. We may even have alarm systems. Why? Because it's common sense in order to safeguard our stuff. I can't think of anything more worth safeguarding than the integrity of our votes. Oh, and looky here, a person sentenced for vote fraud right in my neck of the woods just this week. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/174211971.html

And she was caught, and punished.  Sounds like the system worked.

Where's your outrage over this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-campaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10/19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html

The latter cast disenfranchises quite a few more voters than the case you cited.

 

How many aren't caught? Aren't punished? Where are the in-depth DoJ studies and estimates about how much voter fraud exists but isn't caught? Why does the DoJ fight so hard against states who want to purge their voter roles of ineligible and deceased voters? I don't care which party vote fraud favors, it's illegal and we should take common sense steps to prevent it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you don't participate enough in society to have/get a free state-provided ID, you probably don't participate enough in society to be eligible to vote.
We already have ``common sense steps to prevent it.'' Why should we add another layer of government intervention. For someone who touts less government, you sure do promote more government intervention in people's lives a lot. And the arguments have been rehashed on here ad nauseam about why some people can't get an ID. You either didn't read them or choose to ignore them. My guess is it's the latter.

Oh, and getting a good fake ID is nigh-on impossible I am sure.  Just ask any 19 year old...

 

Of course my name is McLovin.

2012-10-19 5:18 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Extreme Veteran
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Highlands Ranch, Colorado
Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
I travel to the same trade show the first or second week of November every year so the only way that I vote is by mail in ballot.  I have been voting by mail in for the last ten years.
2012-10-19 5:42 PM
in reply to: #4461233

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Pro
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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 5:43 PM

 How many aren't caught? Aren't punished? Where are the in-depth DoJ studies and estimates about how much voter fraud exists but isn't caught? Why does the DoJ fight so hard against states who want to purge their voter roles of ineligible and deceased voters? I don't care which party vote fraud favors, it's illegal and we should take common sense steps to prevent it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you don't participate enough in society to have/get a free state-provided ID, you probably don't participate enough in society to be eligible to vote.

We've gone from a country that decided that you only counted to vote if you were a free, property owning male, to one that has decided that all citizens are equally eligible to vote. We could certainly go another direction as a country - e.g. you can only vote if you shown the investment in the country to volunteer a significant chunk of your time in service to it (military, Americorps, Teach for America, etc). But we haven't. Being a citizen of the US is enough.

As others pointed out, and I would generalize, it is somewhat ironic that those who lean right and towards less government intrusion in our lives in general are for the most part, the same ones who want people to have to show papers to vote. I could choose to live off the land, in a remote part of the country, and not need to own a drivers license, not have utilities to prove my identity with bills in my name, not have any earned income that requires me to report to the IRS, not have a bank account, etc, etc. And I would like to keep it that way. If anything, I have a better reason to vote than someone who is fine with having the government keep track of them through their state and federal taxes, allowing them to track my movements through my E-Z pass and cell phone records, driver's license allowing them to randomly stop me at traffic check points, etc. 

To answer the OP, I think the things that make you nervous are not realistically issues. Voter fraud? Frequency is quite low - and in the day when it was common, it did not require people to vote earlier in the cycle, just earlier in the day (vote early and vote often). If you really think ID's and same-day voting are needed, change the procedure to have people vote on a single day (but not a mid-week work day), and then dip their fingers in indelible ink. And the idea that some brand new idea will come out and change your mind? I think part of the problem with elections in general is that so much money goes to swaying the "undecided voter" who, 2-3 weeks before the election STILL doesn't know who to vote for. Do your research - decide what matters to you, whose reporting on those issues, and what the candidate's positions are on those issues. And I suppose, if you believe that the candidate can be trusted to keep their word. Because frankly, if they are changing positions this late in the game, they are not to be trusted to follow through at crunch time post-win.

2012-10-19 6:59 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida
Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
I like it about 1 week from the Election Day. Not 1 month.

Fraud does worry me too a bit.
2012-10-19 9:05 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Expert
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Johns Creek, Georgia
Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
It's helpful to get a practice vote in before you show up on election day.


2012-10-20 10:10 AM
in reply to: #4461244

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
mr2tony - 2012-10-19 4:53 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:43 PM

coredump - 2012-10-19 4:26 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:18 PM
crowny2 - 2012-10-19 3:52 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 3:10 PM I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.

According to a DoJ study it is  .00000013 percent. 

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Minnite.pdf 

Linked for reference.

So my question to you is that too much for you?  If so, how low do you think it should be?

 

Yes, it's amazing how they don't find what they don't look for and have no way of proving after the crimes are committed. In an anonymous voting system, it's self-evident that the only way to maintain its integrity is to prevent fraud up front. Most of us don't live in high crime areas, either. In fact, the chances that our houses or cars will be broken into are infinitesimally small. But I'll bet we all still lock our doors when we leave. We may even have alarm systems. Why? Because it's common sense in order to safeguard our stuff. I can't think of anything more worth safeguarding than the integrity of our votes. Oh, and looky here, a person sentenced for vote fraud right in my neck of the woods just this week. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/174211971.html

And she was caught, and punished.  Sounds like the system worked.

Where's your outrage over this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-campaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10/19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html

The latter cast disenfranchises quite a few more voters than the case you cited.

 



How many aren't caught? Aren't punished? Where are the in-depth DoJ studies and estimates about how much voter fraud exists but isn't caught? Why does the DoJ fight so hard against states who want to purge their voter roles of ineligible and deceased voters?

I don't care which party vote fraud favors, it's illegal and we should take common sense steps to prevent it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you don't participate enough in society to have/get a free state-provided ID, you probably don't participate enough in society to be eligible to vote.


We already have ``common sense steps to prevent it.'' Why should we add another layer of government intervention.

For someone who touts less government, you sure do promote more government intervention in people's lives a lot.

And the arguments have been rehashed on here ad nauseam about why some people can't get an ID. You either didn't read them or choose to ignore them. My guess is it's the latter.



In my state, prospective voters can walk right up to the poll the same day they vote and have the guy alongside them say, "Yeah, he's lives where he says he does" and that voter can register and vote right there. Does that sound like a common sense procedure to prevent vote fraud? In our last election, we had multiple reports (and video) of cars with the same license plates driving from poll to poll on election day with the occupants going inside to vote. Does that sound suspicious to you?

I'm not promoting government INTERVENTION at all. I'm promoting the idea that government should enforce its founding principles-- one qualified voter gets one vote.

It's interesting that a person who feels its fine for government to MANDATE that every citizen purchase health insurance or pay a penalty feels its an overreach that same government can't insist that citizens furnish simple proof of their identity to order to protect the foundation of our system of government.

Voter ID and other fraud prevention measure just make common sense. Most people understand this intuitively, which is why the American people overwhelmingly favor it:

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_pol...



2012-10-20 12:18 PM
in reply to: #4461662

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?
scoobysdad - 2012-10-20 11:10 AM
mr2tony - 2012-10-19 4:53 PM
scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:43 PM
coredump - 2012-10-19 4:26 PM
scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 4:18 PM
crowny2 - 2012-10-19 3:52 PM

scoobysdad - 2012-10-19 3:10 PM I think our voting system is built to allow a certain amount of fraud and I think some people, including some in power, are all for that.

According to a DoJ study it is  .00000013 percent. 

http://www.aclupa.org/downloads/Minnite.pdf 

Linked for reference.

So my question to you is that too much for you?  If so, how low do you think it should be?

 

Yes, it's amazing how they don't find what they don't look for and have no way of proving after the crimes are committed. In an anonymous voting system, it's self-evident that the only way to maintain its integrity is to prevent fraud up front. Most of us don't live in high crime areas, either. In fact, the chances that our houses or cars will be broken into are infinitesimally small. But I'll bet we all still lock our doors when we leave. We may even have alarm systems. Why? Because it's common sense in order to safeguard our stuff. I can't think of anything more worth safeguarding than the integrity of our votes. Oh, and looky here, a person sentenced for vote fraud right in my neck of the woods just this week. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/174211971.html

And she was caught, and punished.  Sounds like the system worked.

Where's your outrage over this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/republican-campaign-worker-charged-with-voter-registration-fraud/2012/10/19/c07cc378-1a01-11e2-94aa-9240e72ee00b_story.html

The latter cast disenfranchises quite a few more voters than the case you cited.

 

How many aren't caught? Aren't punished? Where are the in-depth DoJ studies and estimates about how much voter fraud exists but isn't caught? Why does the DoJ fight so hard against states who want to purge their voter roles of ineligible and deceased voters? I don't care which party vote fraud favors, it's illegal and we should take common sense steps to prevent it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If you don't participate enough in society to have/get a free state-provided ID, you probably don't participate enough in society to be eligible to vote.
We already have ``common sense steps to prevent it.'' Why should we add another layer of government intervention. For someone who touts less government, you sure do promote more government intervention in people's lives a lot. And the arguments have been rehashed on here ad nauseam about why some people can't get an ID. You either didn't read them or choose to ignore them. My guess is it's the latter.
In my state, prospective voters can walk right up to the poll the same day they vote and have the guy alongside them say, "Yeah, he's lives where he says he does" and that voter can register and vote right there. Does that sound like a common sense procedure to prevent vote fraud? In our last election, we had multiple reports (and video) of cars with the same license plates driving from poll to poll on election day with the occupants going inside to vote. Does that sound suspicious to you? I'm not promoting government INTERVENTION at all. I'm promoting the idea that government should enforce its founding principles-- one qualified voter gets one vote. It's interesting that a person who feels its fine for government to MANDATE that every citizen purchase health insurance or pay a penalty feels its an overreach that same government can't insist that citizens furnish simple proof of their identity to order to protect the foundation of our system of government. Voter ID and other fraud prevention measure just make common sense. Most people understand this intuitively, which is why the American people overwhelmingly favor it: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_pol...

Well, what did the news reports say was going on? It could be blatant fraud. Or it could be drivers who volunteer to take homebound people to the polling places (older people, people from group homes, etc). I would be more suspicious if something like that was being publicized, and NO ONE from the local paper was doing ANY investigative work. Or at least having something in the paper responding to the rumors of blatant fraud.

2012-10-20 1:29 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?

Pretty scary. I conducted an experiment. I traveled to some of the contested states and registered to vote. With a little "manipulation" of the postal system I was able to mail off ballots and vote in 5 states this year. This appears to have only been limited by the number of states I was able to travel to after getting the idea to try it. I'll vote again on the 6th in my state.

Hey, I'm just kidding... right?

ETA - I'm headed to Denver tomorrow...



Edited by mdg2003 2012-10-20 1:31 PM
2012-10-29 6:55 PM
in reply to: #4461086

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Subject: RE: What do you think of early voting?

I discovered another thing I really don't like about early voting.  Gallup just released this today:

In U.S., 15% of Registered Voters Have Already Cast Ballots

If you go down the page a bit it has this little nugget:

 

On election day nobody releases results on the east coast until after polling locations are closed because they're worried about the impact on people out West voting.  Remember when they called Florida early for Bush and people complained that it depressed the vote out West.

So, how is it OK to spread information like this that says one Candidate is way ahead or way behind.  Isn't that going to have an effect on voters?

On a side note.  Holy crap, Romney's really kicking butt.

 

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