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2013-09-11 8:41 PM

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Subject: How does this sit with you?

These things were said by my kid's Social Studies teacher today at various times during a discussion of 9/11.  It was told to me by my daughter, and verified by two classmates.  Don't get me wrong.....I have no intention of even bringing it up with the school....teachers do what they do and parents do what we do....I'm good with my kids getting a balanced viewpoint whenever it presents itself.

 

So here we go.....

1. Putting Native Americans on reservations was an atrocity akin to the holocaust.

2.  Nuclear attack on Hiroshima was just as bad as them bombing Pearl Harbor and we should be ashamed.

3.  Our response to 9/11 made us no better than terrorists.

 

From my perch......I'm like......huh???  LOL



Edited by Left Brain 2013-09-11 8:44 PM


2013-09-11 9:10 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Elite
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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?
Originally posted by Left Brain

These things were said by my kid's Social Studies teacher today at various times during a discussion of 9/11.  It was told to me by my daughter, and verified by two classmates.  Don't get me wrong.....I have no intention of even bringing it up with the school....teachers do what they do and parents do what we do....I'm good with my kids getting a balanced viewpoint whenever it presents itself.

 

So here we go.....

1. Putting Native Americans on reservations was an atrocity akin to the holocaust.

2.  Nuclear attack on Hiroshima was just as bad as them bombing Pearl Harbor and we should be ashamed.

3.  Our response to 9/11 made us no better than terrorists.

 

From my perch......I'm like......huh???  LOL

1. Putting native Americans on reservations was shameful. Rounding up and killing 6 million Jews... uhh... more than shameful.

2. Acts of war are acts of war and we did not start that one.

3. Ehhh... live by the sword, die by the sword. It's been that way for a very very long time. Hint: don't start it if you have a crappy sword.

2013-09-11 9:19 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?
Originally posted by powerman
Originally posted by Left Brain

These things were said by my kid's Social Studies teacher today at various times during a discussion of 9/11.  It was told to me by my daughter, and verified by two classmates.  Don't get me wrong.....I have no intention of even bringing it up with the school....teachers do what they do and parents do what we do....I'm good with my kids getting a balanced viewpoint whenever it presents itself.

 

So here we go.....

1. Putting Native Americans on reservations was an atrocity akin to the holocaust.

2.  Nuclear attack on Hiroshima was just as bad as them bombing Pearl Harbor and we should be ashamed.

3.  Our response to 9/11 made us no better than terrorists.

 

From my perch......I'm like......huh???  LOL

1. Putting native Americans on reservations was shameful. Rounding up and killing 6 million Jews... uhh... more than shameful.

2. Acts of war are acts of war and we did not start that one.

3. Ehhh... live by the sword, die by the sword. It's been that way for a very very long time. Hint: don't start it if you have a crappy sword.

Yeah....we're discussing this as I type......my kids are a hoot. 

One of them just said, "you should tell XXXXX" (a really good family friend)......another said...."no way, he'll burn the school down."  LMAOOOOOOOOO

My son thinks the teacher is cool and just inciting conversation.

Good stuff over dinner!

2013-09-11 9:25 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?
Originally posted by Left Brain

These things were said by my kid's Social Studies teacher today at various times during a discussion of 9/11.  It was told to me by my daughter, and verified by two classmates.  Don't get me wrong.....I have no intention of even bringing it up with the school....teachers do what they do and parents do what we do....I'm good with my kids getting a balanced viewpoint whenever it presents itself.

 

So here we go.....

1. Putting Native Americans on reservations was an atrocity akin to the holocaust.

2.  Nuclear attack on Hiroshima was just as bad as them bombing Pearl Harbor and we should be ashamed.

3.  Our response to 9/11 made us no better than terrorists.

 

From my perch......I'm like......huh???  LOL

You should hear the stuff I'm hearing come back from my oldest who just started college.  It's pretty thick down there.  lol

1.  The Native American Genocide comparison is a tricky one because it was a Genocide from a pure definition standpoint.  However, pretty much every country on earth had an event where they came in and wiped people out.  It doesn't make it right, but it's "complicated".  It is a great example of the victors always getting to write the history books though.

2. Hiroshima wasn't even close.  We were in an active war and it's all about killing the other dudes before they killed us.

3. Response to 9/11 was well justified and the initial actions were targeted and strategic.  It does get complicated due to the nature of the war on terror but to say we're terrorists is just dumb.

2013-09-11 9:28 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?

That is one thing that is cool about history... it really is an opinion. Sure "facts" happened... but that isn't the "story" that is told. According to Oliver Stone, America has been the most aggressive military empire ever... there is actually a little truth to that. But that is just one take on it.

Sure... if your take is that America got what it deserved on 9/11... OK, that's your take... your a loony f#$% $#^$ ^#$, but sure, that's one take.

Now if the teacher is actually engaging in an effort to incite discussion... well then that is just good teaching. Explain why you think what you think and why you disagree. Don't just swallow the story. Nice work.

2013-09-11 9:38 PM
in reply to: powerman

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?
Originally posted by powerman

That is one thing that is cool about history... it really is an opinion. Sure "facts" happened... but that isn't the "story" that is told. According to Oliver Stone, America has been the most aggressive military empire ever... there is actually a little truth to that. But that is just one take on it.

Sure... if your take is that America got what it deserved on 9/11... OK, that's your take... your a loony f#$% $#^$ ^#$, but sure, that's one take.

Now if the teacher is actually engaging in an effort to incite discussion... well then that is just good teaching. Explain why you think what you think and why you disagree. Don't just swallow the story. Nice work.

Yeah....pretty much where I always end up with school stuff... another parent called me tonight about it...he's a good bud...he may have drank too much koolaid today.  I was like, "dude, relax, it's school, we don't go there anymore". Laughing



2013-09-11 9:52 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?

One thing I sometimes get a kick out of is people taking their "politically correct" glasses with 20/20 hindsight and then judging history based on it.

2013-09-11 10:51 PM
in reply to: tuwood

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?
Originally posted by tuwood

One thing I sometimes get a kick out of is people taking their "politically correct" glasses with 20/20 hindsight and then judging history based on it.

I used to have a big problem with teachers putting forth their opinions instead of just teaching..........but I got to a point where I figured it was good for my kids to hear every opinion on any subject....and it is.  After all, the kids get to decide what they believe and where they align themselves.  I'm good with that.

2013-09-11 11:58 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?
Originally posted by Left Brain

These things were said by my kid's Social Studies teacher today at various times during a discussion of 9/11.  It was told to me by my daughter, and verified by two classmates.  Don't get me wrong.....I have no intention of even bringing it up with the school....teachers do what they do and parents do what we do....I'm good with my kids getting a balanced viewpoint whenever it presents itself.

 

So here we go.....

1. Putting Native Americans on reservations was an atrocity akin to the holocaust.

2.  Nuclear attack on Hiroshima was just as bad as them bombing Pearl Harbor and we should be ashamed.

3.  Our response to 9/11 made us no better than terrorists.

 

From my perch......I'm like......huh???  LOL

1. This was a terrible part in our history, but like Tuwood  said pretty much every civilization did this in some way or another.  It was more about land and resources then killing off a certain type of people.

2. No, Japan attacked us, we fought a war, they refused to surrender when they had 'lost'.  We were also slightly ignorant to the true power of the weapon.  Bad things happen during war, this was one of them.  It's war, a war they started none the less.  Better them than us.

3. Um, no. 

What grade is your kid in? There comes a point when a teacher can interject their own personal opinions (so long as they leave an open dialog for differing opinions).  But not until you reach a certain age/maturity level.



Edited by Justin86 2013-09-12 12:02 AM
2013-09-12 3:47 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?
It's why I'm glad so many home school for long enough to get their kids looking stuff up from as many sources as possible before coming to a conclusion.

Somewhere near 10th grade most of them I know then send the kids to a public school to get the official diploma. It's funny as hell to hear the kids come back home, "Holy cow, they said XXXXX and never even mentioned there's a whole set of studies that disprove it"

They usually don't mind if something against what they believe is taught, they just want to hear there IS another point of view.

I wonder if the teacher even suggested the intel about how many would have died on both sides if we had gone through with a ground attack on Japan. Then compared that to what happened with the two bombs we dropped to end the war.

2013-09-12 11:45 AM
in reply to: DanielG

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?

 

I assume LB's kids are in high school at least so yes I don't have too big a problem with a teacher interjecting opinion on a subject as long as it is intended to start a discussion and not being "preached". 

However I don't think that is the best solution to inciting discussion. I had a college professor who was the sole guy in the religious studies department. I took a class on the Old Testament from him. It was an intro class and was one of 2-3 choices you were required to take for graduation, so people took the class because they had to not because they had a deep interest in religion. As such, you got all types and all sorts of opinions. 

To this day, that professor has my utmost respect for how he handled that class. He had an amazing way of inciting good discussion but he always managed to keep his own opinion out of it. I had no idea what his religion was, whether or not he was religious or what his solid opinion was on anything. He presented each view equally and never let any personal bias through. A year or two after the class I met someone who went to church with him so I finally figured out which religion he aligned with, but I would have never been able to figure it out after taking two classes from him. 

Anyway, there is a way for a teacher to incite discussion without presenting their opinion or bias. I can't cast any judgement on the teacher in the OP as I was not there and don't know there intentions but it sounds like they may have chosen a sub-optimal way to incite discussion. 



2013-09-12 12:49 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: ---
Originally posted by Left Brain

How does this sit with you?




A little off to the left, at a rakish angle.

2013-09-12 1:03 PM
in reply to: Aarondb4

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?

A couple thoughts to interject.

1.  If things were said exactly as posted.  I don't agree.  Outlandish claims, IMO.

2.  I think hearsay is always a little tricky.  Even trickier coming from kids (obviously, the older they are, the more reliable).  For example, if the teach said "some people say...." then the line, completely different.  Also, the shocking nature of the claim could overshadow the "some people say" part and it's forgotten in the recalling of the conversation.  I'm in no way saying the kids are not accurate, but I always take hearsay with a little skepticism.  If there is real concern, you need to bring up the conversation with the teacher and hear those claims directly from them.  I know parents tend to think their babies wouldn't lie or telling the truth.  It's not about that, it's simple mistakes in recollection and happens with people of all ages.

3.  I often hear the concern of "teachers putting ideas/personal views" in children's heads.  I understand the concern, but at the same time, wouldn't fear it.  Who do kids REALLY emulate and believe?  Well, if the parents are even half decent at parenting, it would be them.  Kids usually follow in the same footsteps as the parents - apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  If you have a relationship that encourages conversation, then topics like this come up and you can "straighten them out" or at least give your point of view.  The only time to "worry" (but it could also be kids learning their own way) is at the college age.  But by then, it's their life to chose their way through it.

2013-09-12 1:04 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: How does this sit with you?
Originally posted by Left Brain

These things were said by my kid's Social Studies teacher today at various times during a discussion of 9/11.  It was told to me by my daughter, and verified by two classmates.  Don't get me wrong.....I have no intention of even bringing it up with the school....teachers do what they do and parents do what we do....I'm good with my kids getting a balanced viewpoint whenever it presents itself.

 

So here we go.....

1. Putting Native Americans on reservations was an atrocity akin to the holocaust.

2.  Nuclear attack on Hiroshima was just as bad as them bombing Pearl Harbor and we should be ashamed.

3.  Our response to 9/11 made us no better than terrorists.

 

From my perch......I'm like......huh???  LOL




1. Depends on whether your lens for comparison is one of scale or concept.

2. I think that limiting it to just the nuclear attacks and not the overall bombing campaign of the Japanese home islands undermines the teacher's point. Pearl Harbor may have been dirty and underhanded, but we consciously decided over and over again to burn to death a whole bunch of babies. And the standard argument that we dropped the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in order to spare everyone the horror of the invasion is akin to saying that we decided to burn these babies to death over here so that we wouldn't have to kill these babies over here. Do I do it differently if I'm in charge? Probably not. Doesn't mean that we get to feel good about it.

3. Eh. I don't find this one provocative at all. It's along the same lines as the old adage that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. The concept that how you conceive of yourself may not align with how others perceive you isn't a mind-blowing one.
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