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2013-12-12 8:55 AM

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Subject: Affluenza


2013-12-12 8:58 AM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
I was just reading the same thing. Not sure which hit me harder- the sympathy for the victims families or the anger at the justice system. This to me is the ultimate insult as far as lack of accountability is concerned.
2013-12-12 9:31 AM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
What are you enraged about? The article says the family is outraged at the verdict. Are you upset because of the family's outrage?

Sorry, I enjoy being facetious sometimes

The beauty of, and the downside to, the justice system is that anyone can present any argument and it must be taken seriously. If you believe there is an explanation to an offense, you will be heard, which is satisfying in its own right. 19 times out of 20, that explanation will be shot down if it is stupid. However, that 1 time out of 20, it gets publicized and outrages people like yourself. But the justice system doesn't work like that. The judge can't say, "stop right there. What you are about to say sounds stupid and I won't hear it." It doesn't mean 'affluenza' isn't stupid - I think it is and shouldn't be an excuse for something this significant - but it is a concept that must be heard.

And yes, the families are outraged. But a court decision never completely satisfies any party. I bet the family of the accused were expecting only 3 years of probation.

Edited by So Fresh So Clean 2013-12-12 9:33 AM
2013-12-12 10:08 AM
in reply to: So Fresh So Clean

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
For me it comes down to accountability. The decision to not apply a more severe penalty to the 16 year old defendent DUI of more than 3 times the legal limit that caused an accident that killed 4 people based on the arguement that he was the product of wealthy privelaged parents that never set limits on the kid is beyond belief. Even more scary is the legal precedent that is now set on the basis of this decision.
2013-12-12 10:36 AM
in reply to: So Fresh So Clean

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
Originally posted by So Fresh So Clean

What are you enraged about? The article says the family is outraged at the verdict. Are you upset because of the family's outrage?

Sorry, I enjoy being facetious sometimes

The beauty of, and the downside to, the justice system is that anyone can present any argument and it must be taken seriously. If you believe there is an explanation to an offense, you will be heard, which is satisfying in its own right. 19 times out of 20, that explanation will be shot down if it is stupid. However, that 1 time out of 20, it gets publicized and outrages people like yourself. But the justice system doesn't work like that. The judge can't say, "stop right there. What you are about to say sounds stupid and I won't hear it." It doesn't mean 'affluenza' isn't stupid - I think it is and shouldn't be an excuse for something this significant - but it is a concept that must be heard.

And yes, the families are outraged. But a court decision never completely satisfies any party. I bet the family of the accused were expecting only 3 years of probation.


Forgive me for my legal ignorance, but basically they said he's rich so he has a feeling of "malaise" that caused him to do this. That appears to me to be a get out of jail free card for just about everything. I'm fat/skinny/rich/poor/popular/outcast/tall/short/man/woman/etc. so I have been feeling a malaise that caused me to steal/murder/DUI/Abuse/etc.
2013-12-12 11:28 AM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
if they are truely serious about this, then the parents who enabled this condition need to be charged in some shape or form...


2013-12-12 11:37 AM
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Subject: RE: Affluenza

I think the "Affluenza" is pretty ridiculouos......but that sentence is pretty common for that crime....especially for young people.

On the other end of the spectrum, it leaves the "Pofluenza" defense in play I guess.



Edited by Left Brain 2013-12-12 11:38 AM
2013-12-12 4:07 PM
in reply to: JoshR

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Supersonicus Idioticus
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Subject: RE: Affluenza
Originally posted by JoshR

Forgive me for my legal ignorance, but basically they said he's rich so he has a feeling of "malaise" that caused him to do this. That appears to me to be a get out of jail free card for just about everything. I'm fat/skinny/rich/poor/popular/outcast/tall/short/man/woman/etc. so I have been feeling a malaise that caused me to steal/murder/DUI/Abuse/etc.



That is what they are saying. Yes. And if I can remember clearly back to when I was 16, I had no idea about the value of money. Specifically, if my parents were to earn an extra $3k, I wouldn't know what that meant. I can't imagine what that feeling would be like if it were amplified by 1000x if my parents were multi millionaires.

Again, I don't think this is an excuse for manslaughter, but it may be a good reason for vandalism or failure to appear in court etc.
2013-12-12 4:17 PM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by Left Brain

I think the "Affluenza" is pretty ridiculouos......but that sentence is pretty common for that crime....especially for young people.

On the other end of the spectrum, it leaves the "Pofluenza" defense in play I guess.

Those were my thoughts exactly.  A large percentage of crime can be explained by Pofluenza - including almost all property crimes.

2013-12-12 6:30 PM
in reply to: Hook'em

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
Originally posted by Hook'em

Originally posted by Left Brain

I think the "Affluenza" is pretty ridiculouos......but that sentence is pretty common for that crime....especially for young people.

On the other end of the spectrum, it leaves the "Pofluenza" defense in play I guess.

Those were my thoughts exactly.  A large percentage of crime can be explained by Pofluenza - including almost all property crimes.




The kid should never see the light of day again. Period.
Those who supplied him the booze and were in any way partially responsible for the crash, deserve prison sentences as well.
Just my opinion.
2013-12-12 7:21 PM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
Originally posted by Hook'em

Originally posted by Left Brain

I think the "Affluenza" is pretty ridiculouos......but that sentence is pretty common for that crime....especially for young people.

On the other end of the spectrum, it leaves the "Pofluenza" defense in play I guess.

Those were my thoughts exactly.  A large percentage of crime can be explained by Pofluenza - including almost all property crimes.

The kid should never see the light of day again. Period. Those who supplied him the booze and were in any way partially responsible for the crash, deserve prison sentences as well. Just my opinion.

My daughter probably suffers from affluenza.  Not a reason get away with DUI.  I love my kids, but this is BS.



2013-12-12 9:19 PM
in reply to: ChineseDemocracy

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by ChineseDemocracy
Originally posted by Hook'em

Originally posted by Left Brain

I think the "Affluenza" is pretty ridiculouos......but that sentence is pretty common for that crime....especially for young people.

On the other end of the spectrum, it leaves the "Pofluenza" defense in play I guess.

Those were my thoughts exactly.  A large percentage of crime can be explained by Pofluenza - including almost all property crimes.

The kid should never see the light of day again. Period. Those who supplied him the booze and were in any way partially responsible for the crash, deserve prison sentences as well. Just my opinion.

I could never get on board with that.

2013-12-13 6:58 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

I think it's a little extreme to say he never will see the light of day again....HOWEVER....  If it were a kid of mine or my wife that was killed in this I would have a hard time not making someone pay for what they did.  I really can't believe that the guy got off on probation.  He should be tried as an adult and sentenced to a long, long, long time. 

 

Sometimes you wonder if vigilante justice needs to take place....I do.

I'm really just speechless after reading this article.  Speechless.

2013-12-13 9:20 AM
in reply to: Bevie

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.

2013-12-13 9:33 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by dmiller5

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.

I agree 100%.

2013-12-13 9:40 AM
in reply to: dmiller5

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
Originally posted by dmiller5

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.




I don't think he should be sentenced for the rest of his life, but he should definitely do some time in my mind, even as a minor. Nothing about his "Affluenza" is going to change. It's still a get out of jail free card for him. Except now he can say he even got out of murder so he has even more malaise.


2013-12-13 9:47 AM
in reply to: JoshR

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
Originally posted by JoshR

Originally posted by dmiller5

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.




I don't think he should be sentenced for the rest of his life, but he should definitely do some time in my mind, even as a minor. Nothing about his "Affluenza" is going to change. It's still a get out of jail free card for him. Except now he can say he even got out of murder so he has even more malaise.


This is what I was thinking -- he now knows that he can literally get away with murder. I would HOPE he's smart enough to know that if he does something like this again he's going to go to jail for a very very long time, but if he truly is afflicted with this terrible disease then he won't realize that and continue on this path.
2013-12-13 9:52 AM
in reply to: mr2tony

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by mr2tony
Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by dmiller5

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.

I don't think he should be sentenced for the rest of his life, but he should definitely do some time in my mind, even as a minor. Nothing about his "Affluenza" is going to change. It's still a get out of jail free card for him. Except now he can say he even got out of murder so he has even more malaise.
This is what I was thinking -- he now knows that he can literally get away with murder. I would HOPE he's smart enough to know that if he does something like this again he's going to go to jail for a very very long time, but if he truly is afflicted with this terrible disease then he won't realize that and continue on this path.

Lilke I said, his sentence is really very typical for that crime.  I don't think he knows more than anyone else who kills someone while driving drunk, regardless of family wealth.

2013-12-13 10:09 AM
in reply to: mr2tony

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by mr2tony
Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by dmiller5

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.

I don't think he should be sentenced for the rest of his life, but he should definitely do some time in my mind, even as a minor. Nothing about his "Affluenza" is going to change. It's still a get out of jail free card for him. Except now he can say he even got out of murder so he has even more malaise.
This is what I was thinking -- he now knows that he can literally get away with murder. I would HOPE he's smart enough to know that if he does something like this again he's going to go to jail for a very very long time, but if he truly is afflicted with this terrible disease then he won't realize that and continue on this path.

He did not get away with murder. He has been given a punishment for manslaughter. There is a difference.

2013-12-13 10:21 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mr2tony
Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by dmiller5

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.

I don't think he should be sentenced for the rest of his life, but he should definitely do some time in my mind, even as a minor. Nothing about his "Affluenza" is going to change. It's still a get out of jail free card for him. Except now he can say he even got out of murder so he has even more malaise.
This is what I was thinking -- he now knows that he can literally get away with murder. I would HOPE he's smart enough to know that if he does something like this again he's going to go to jail for a very very long time, but if he truly is afflicted with this terrible disease then he won't realize that and continue on this path.

Lilke I said, his sentence is really very typical for that crime.  I don't think he knows more than anyone else who kills someone while driving drunk, regardless of family wealth.




Do you agree with the punishment? I know I know I know those decisions are above your pay grade and blah blah blah but do you personally think that probation is a fair punishment for killing four people.

Oh, sorry, for `slaughtering' four people.
2013-12-13 10:26 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mr2tony
Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by dmiller5

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.

I don't think he should be sentenced for the rest of his life, but he should definitely do some time in my mind, even as a minor. Nothing about his "Affluenza" is going to change. It's still a get out of jail free card for him. Except now he can say he even got out of murder so he has even more malaise.
This is what I was thinking -- he now knows that he can literally get away with murder. I would HOPE he's smart enough to know that if he does something like this again he's going to go to jail for a very very long time, but if he truly is afflicted with this terrible disease then he won't realize that and continue on this path.

Lilke I said, his sentence is really very typical for that crime.  I don't think he knows more than anyone else who kills someone while driving drunk, regardless of family wealth.

I'm sure you are more aware of the typical sentence on this sort of thing than I am, but just a local story to share. A kid here did the same thing. Always a straight kid, no record, no driving record, wasn't a drinker. His friends convinced him to try drinking, he had a few then got in the car and drove home. Ran into a ped and killed them. He got 5 years in jail for that.

In the OP case I could understand a 10-15 year probation, but he needs to serve at least 5 in prison IMO. He killed 4 people, that shouldn't be taken lightly.

If this "Affluenza" crap is really a defense, he essentially has free license to continue to drink and drive. If he is rich and the courts have already given him a huge pardon like this how is he to know it is wrong in the future?



2013-12-13 10:32 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by Left Brain

I think the "Affluenza" is pretty ridiculouos......but that sentence is pretty common for that crime....especially for young people.

On the other end of the spectrum, it leaves the "Pofluenza" defense in play I guess.

That is the FIRST thing I thought of.

2013-12-13 10:36 AM
in reply to: mr2tony

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by mr2tony
Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mr2tony
Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by dmiller5

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.

I don't think he should be sentenced for the rest of his life, but he should definitely do some time in my mind, even as a minor. Nothing about his "Affluenza" is going to change. It's still a get out of jail free card for him. Except now he can say he even got out of murder so he has even more malaise.
This is what I was thinking -- he now knows that he can literally get away with murder. I would HOPE he's smart enough to know that if he does something like this again he's going to go to jail for a very very long time, but if he truly is afflicted with this terrible disease then he won't realize that and continue on this path.

Lilke I said, his sentence is really very typical for that crime.  I don't think he knows more than anyone else who kills someone while driving drunk, regardless of family wealth.

Do you agree with the punishment? I know I know I know those decisions are above your pay grade and blah blah blah but do you personally think that probation is a fair punishment for killing four people. Oh, sorry, for `slaughtering' four people.

I think it's easy for us to sit in judgement on something like this, but you'd likely be surprised at the devastation that is usually unleashed on the person who caused the deaths as well.....some of it externally, and alot of it internally. 

I guess for me it comes down to how much of a threat to society is the offender?  At 16, I'd say he deserves to go on with his life, with some very serious monitoring and counseling.  Maybe you can save that life, because there is nothing you can do about the other 4.  I think if it were my family that he killed I could live with that.  Then again, I'm pretty soft when it comes to kids who make mistakes.

2013-12-13 10:42 AM
in reply to: Aarondb4

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Subject: RE: Affluenza

Originally posted by Aarondb4

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by mr2tony
Originally posted by JoshR
Originally posted by dmiller5

All the affluenze BS aside, it is still a minor who did something incredibly stupid. Assuming he has a clean record before this, the punishment seems to fit the crime far better than "never seeing the light of day again"

Also to the families that are outraged over the sentence, destroying someone else's life won't bring back the lives of your loved ones.

I don't think he should be sentenced for the rest of his life, but he should definitely do some time in my mind, even as a minor. Nothing about his "Affluenza" is going to change. It's still a get out of jail free card for him. Except now he can say he even got out of murder so he has even more malaise.
This is what I was thinking -- he now knows that he can literally get away with murder. I would HOPE he's smart enough to know that if he does something like this again he's going to go to jail for a very very long time, but if he truly is afflicted with this terrible disease then he won't realize that and continue on this path.

Lilke I said, his sentence is really very typical for that crime.  I don't think he knows more than anyone else who kills someone while driving drunk, regardless of family wealth.

I'm sure you are more aware of the typical sentence on this sort of thing than I am, but just a local story to share. A kid here did the same thing. Always a straight kid, no record, no driving record, wasn't a drinker. His friends convinced him to try drinking, he had a few then got in the car and drove home. Ran into a ped and killed them. He got 5 years in jail for that.

In the OP case I could understand a 10-15 year probation, but he needs to serve at least 5 in prison IMO. He killed 4 people, that shouldn't be taken lightly.

If this "Affluenza" crap is really a defense, he essentially has free license to continue to drink and drive. If he is rich and the courts have already given him a huge pardon like this how is he to know it is wrong in the future?

How old was the kid in your scenario? 16 or 17 makes a HUGE difference here in sentencing.  16 is a juvenile who must be certified as an adult....and that doesn't happen very often in cases with no history.... 17 and you are an adult, and subject to adult sentences.

2013-12-13 10:44 AM
in reply to: Left Brain

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Subject: RE: Affluenza
Should the factor that maybe there should be a deterrent to doing it in the first place enter into this at all ?
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