Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item
-
No new posts
Moderators: k9car363, alicefoeller | Reply |
|
2014-01-04 5:42 PM |
Subject: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item ATF say medical-marijuana patients are prohibited from owning guns The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/ci_19026921 |
|
2014-01-05 1:47 PM in reply to: DanielG |
Master 3127 Sunny Southern Cal | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item This sounds like a federal policy, not a state one. Why the congrats to Colorado? It's not the state's doing, right? |
2014-01-05 1:55 PM in reply to: SevenZulu |
Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by SevenZulu This sounds like a federal policy, not a state one. Why the congrats to Colorado? It's not the state's doing, right? By handing out medical marijuana cards the state makes each recipient a prohibited person. Those cards aren't handed out federally |
2014-01-05 3:19 PM in reply to: DanielG |
Master 3127 Sunny Southern Cal | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Was the federal policy established and publicized prior to the medical permits? I honestly don't know, I'm merely asking. Colorado isn't alone in this, either, correct? I believe that a good number of states have adopted some sort of permitted medical marijuana, no? |
2014-01-05 3:39 PM in reply to: SevenZulu |
Pro 15655 | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item You know.....if we could get everyone to turn in their guns and smoke weed instead we'd probably have no need for guns. |
2014-01-05 7:46 PM in reply to: SevenZulu |
Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by SevenZulu Was the federal policy established and publicized prior to the medical permits? I honestly don't know, I'm merely asking. Colorado isn't alone in this, either, correct? I believe that a good number of states have adopted some sort of permitted medical marijuana, no? Fed law 1968. 18 U.S.C. 922 (d): It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person— (...) (3) is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)); Yeah, that was published. They also started ATF form 4473 in 1968 which lists prohibited persons. 20 states have some form of legalized MJ. Each and every one of the persons who partake of the states' laws and use it are prohibited persons and it's federally illegal for them to have a single round of ammunition, much less a firearm. That means they cannot touch one legally. What's going to be interesting is when there's a regime change and when that change brings a person who is anti-drug entirely who decides to start enforcing those federal laws. Poof, all those instant felons who will forever be forbidden from touching a bullet or they go back to jail. That will be an interesting set of lawsuits to decide who gets final say in this. |
|
2014-01-05 9:06 PM in reply to: 0 |
Champion 6503 NOVA - Ironic for an Endurance Athlete | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item a) Colorado has passed a law to allow the recreational (not medicinal) use of cannibus. These users do not need to register. I'm not sure why you would use it medicinally when you could use it for fun. b) The right answer to the form is "Not today". Edited by pga_mike 2014-01-05 9:10 PM |
2014-01-06 6:58 AM in reply to: pga_mike |
Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by pga_mike a) Colorado has passed a law to allow the recreational (not medicinal) use of cannibus. These users do not need to register. I'm not sure why you would use it medicinally when you could use it for fun. b) The right answer to the form is "Not today". So if they passed magazine limit bills, registration bills and gun type bans, it would be okay to ignore those laws as well. Glad to know it. |
2014-01-06 8:12 AM in reply to: DanielG |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item my hat it has tinfoil, tinfoil has my hat, if it didn't have tinfoil, it wouldn't be my hat! |
2014-01-06 8:43 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by dmiller5 my hat it has tinfoil, tinfoil has my hat, if it didn't have tinfoil, it wouldn't be my hat! Perhaps I'm missing something but are you saying the ATF's letter can be ignored? Or that in Colorado you can use federally illegal drugs and still be able to possess a firearm? Or in other states this can be ignored? It seems that if something is actually happening, it's not a tinfoil hat issue. http://www.alternet.org/story/152573/suspicious_department_of_justi... The DOJ and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms are teaming up to deny medical marijuana users the the 2nd Amendment. For once, the NRA is nowhere to be found. |
2014-01-06 8:54 AM in reply to: DanielG |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? |
|
2014-01-06 8:57 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by dmiller5 is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? You might want to read up on Heller vs DC. |
2014-01-06 8:59 AM in reply to: powerman |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? You might want to read up on Heller vs DC. So should you, that decision only applies to federal enclaves, and not to the individual states. |
2014-01-06 9:20 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? You might want to read up on Heller vs DC. So should you, that decision only applies to federal enclaves, and not to the individual states. So you're saying Chicago is a federal enclave? McDonald Vs Chicago. Wow. |
2014-01-06 9:25 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by dmiller5 is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? Seems you've decided to change the discussion. I was talking about ownership and possession and you're talking about concealed carry. They are not the same thing. Honest. As to your militia canard: McDonald v. Chicago involved a 2nd Amendment challenge to a Chicago ordinance that essentially banned private handgun ownership in the city. In 2008, a divided Supreme Court, in District of Columbia v. Heller , struck down similar District of Columbia legislation on the grounds that it violated an individual's 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear firearms for lawful uses such as self-defense in one's home. But the Court declined to say whether this 2nd Amendment right applies to the states and local governments and not just the District of Columbia, which is under federal jurisdiction. The Court answered this question in McDonald. In a five-four split decision, the McDonald Court held that an individual's right to keep and bear arms is incorporated and applicable to the states through the 14th Amendment's Due Process Clause. Writing for the majority, Justice Alito observed: “It is clear that the Framers and ratifiers of the Fourteenth Amendment counted the right to keep and bear arms among those fundamental rights necessary to our system of ordered liberty” (p. 31). “The Fourteenth Amendment makes the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms fully applicable to the States.” In a separate concurring opinion, Justice Thomas wrote that the 2nd Amendment is fully applicable to states because the right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the 14th Amendment as a privilege of American citizenship. HELLER In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court answered a long-standing constitutional question about whether the right to “keep and bear arms” is an individual right unconnected to service in the militia or a collective right that applies only to state-regulated militias. |
2014-01-06 9:26 AM in reply to: DanielG |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by DanielG Originally posted by dmiller5 So you're saying Chicago is a federal enclave? McDonald Vs Chicago. Wow. Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? You might want to read up on Heller vs DC. So should you, that decision only applies to federal enclaves, and not to the individual states. McDonald v Chicago is a separate case that did apply to the states. Also, whether or not you do, I still believe that the second amendment is poorly applied and that one day, hopefully sooner rather than later, cases like those will be overturned. Supreme court has made mistakes before a la Plessy v Ferguson. |
|
2014-01-06 9:30 AM in reply to: DanielG |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by DanielG Originally posted by dmiller5 Seems you've decided to change the discussion. I was talking about ownership and possession and you're talking about concealed carry. They are not the same thing. Honest. As to your militia canard: is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? McDonald v. Chicago involved a 2nd Amendment challenge to a Chicago ordinance that essentially banned private handgun ownership in the city. In 2008, a divided Supreme Court, in District of Columbia v. Heller , struck down similar District of Columbia legislation on the grounds that it violated an individual's 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear firearms for lawful uses such as self-defense in one's home. But the Court declined to say whether this 2nd Amendment right applies to the states and local governments and not just the District of Columbia, which is under federal jurisdiction. The Court answered this question in McDonald. In a five-four split decision, the McDonald Court held that an individual's right to keep and bear arms is incorporated and applicable to the states through the 14th Amendment's Due Process Clause. Writing for the majority, Justice Alito observed: “It is clear that the Framers and ratifiers of the Fourteenth Amendment counted the right to keep and bear arms among those fundamental rights necessary to our system of ordered liberty” (p. 31). “The Fourteenth Amendment makes the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms fully applicable to the States.” In a separate concurring opinion, Justice Thomas wrote that the 2nd Amendment is fully applicable to states because the right to keep and bear arms is guaranteed by the 14th Amendment as a privilege of American citizenship. HELLER In Heller, the U.S. Supreme Court answered a long-standing constitutional question about whether the right to “keep and bear arms” is an individual right unconnected to service in the militia or a collective right that applies only to state-regulated militias.
My point about the concealed carry was to show the precedent for the concept that, under circumstances, the use of guns can be restricted. Some of those circumstances include the use of drugs. Can we not apply similar logic to someone who has a card to use pot maybe isn't the best person to have a gun. |
2014-01-06 9:36 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? You might want to read up on Heller vs DC. So should you, that decision only applies to federal enclaves, and not to the individual states. You do realize the SCOTUS ruled it as an individual rights, and that the US Constitution does indeed apply to States... you might want to reald up on McDopnald vs Chicago |
2014-01-06 9:37 AM in reply to: 0 |
Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by dmiller5
My point about the concealed carry was to show the precedent for the concept that, under circumstances, the use of guns can be restricted. Some of those circumstances include the use of drugs. Can we not apply similar logic to someone who has a card to use pot maybe isn't the best person to have a gun. No. Carrying outside the house and possession within the house are not the same thing. Even in the Supreme Court cases they are completely different scenarios so no, one does not have any affect on the other. As I said, canard. Purchase and possession is all I'm talking about. As a matter of fact there are even cases showing this as well: http://www.freep.com/article/20130130/NEWS15/130130076/It-s-not-ill... LANSING — People can’t be charged with a crime simply because they possessed a firearm while intoxicated inside their own home, the Michigan Court of Appeals has ruled in a case arising from an incident involving former House Speaker Craig DeRoche. Edited by DanielG 2014-01-06 9:40 AM |
2014-01-06 9:37 AM in reply to: powerman |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? You might want to read up on Heller vs DC. So should you, that decision only applies to federal enclaves, and not to the individual states. You do realize the SCOTUS ruled it as an individual rights, and that the US Constitution does indeed apply to States... you might want to reald up on McDopnald vs Chicago I was replying to his assertion that Heller vs DC applied to the states. |
2014-01-06 9:41 AM in reply to: dmiller5 |
Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? You might want to read up on Heller vs DC. So should you, that decision only applies to federal enclaves, and not to the individual states. You do realize the SCOTUS ruled it as an individual rights, and that the US Constitution does indeed apply to States... you might want to reald up on McDopnald vs Chicago I was replying to his assertion that Heller vs DC applied to the states. It does, as is shown by McDonald Vs Chicago. |
|
2014-01-06 9:49 AM in reply to: DanielG |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by DanielG Originally posted by dmiller5 It does, as is shown by McDonald Vs Chicago. Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5 is this also taking your rights? CA Penal Code While exercising the privileges granted to the licensee under the terms of this license, the licensee shall not, when carrying a concealed weapon: Maybe people on drugs shouldn't have guns................................................... Also you, like most people, are taking such a poor interpretation of the second amendment, it does NOT say that everyone gets to have a gun. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Which militia are you a part of? You might want to read up on Heller vs DC. So should you, that decision only applies to federal enclaves, and not to the individual states. You do realize the SCOTUS ruled it as an individual rights, and that the US Constitution does indeed apply to States... you might want to reald up on McDopnald vs Chicago I was replying to his assertion that Heller vs DC applied to the states. Heller v DC does not apply to the states, McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), is a landmark[1] decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that determined whether the Second Amendment applies to the individual states. The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states. It did not find that the other case applies to the states, it found that the second amendment applies to the states. ok, time to move on from this point. X |
2014-01-06 10:12 AM in reply to: 0 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by dmiller5
Heller v DC does not apply to the states, McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), is a landmark[1] decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that determined whether the Second Amendment applies to the individual states. The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states. It did not find that the other case applies to the states, it found that the second amendment applies to the states. ok, time to move on from this point. X You might want to get the actual point before moving on.... the 2A is a INDIVIDUAL right. PERIOD, as determined by DC vs Heller. When SCOTUS rules... it applies to all... not just DC. How in the world you would think it only applies to DC is beyond me. After ruling it is an individual right... SCOTUS ruled it applied to the States in McDonald vs Chicago.... I agree it was stating the obvious, but Chicago needed to hear it from them apparently. You are the one that brought up militia. You might want to understand it if you are discussing it. Just trying to help. Edited by powerman 2014-01-06 10:12 AM |
2014-01-06 10:19 AM in reply to: DanielG |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by DanielG ATF say medical-marijuana patients are prohibited from owning guns The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/ci_19026921
As far as the OP, there are choices in life. I'm going to go out on a limb and say 95% of medicinal MJ users are just recreational users. As far as actual medical issues.... you can't be under the influence, but users of alcohol and prescription medications are not barred from ownership. If weed or drugs become legal, then they should not be barred either. And an individual must be adjudicated addicted to have rights striped... not just a "user". But as has been said, it is against Federal law, so you can't do it. At some point, the Federal law is going to have to be changed. But for now, I don't shed any tears for all the stoners with MMJ cards and a hang nail. Even if say cocaine was to become legal... that would still have to be regulated for use. I do not know what to think of a adult doing a legal activity but not being able to have full rights. But I think we might agree that coked out gun owners might be a problem... well, except for that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. |
2014-01-06 10:30 AM in reply to: powerman |
Extreme Veteran 3025 Maryland | Subject: RE: Congrats Colorado on the sneakiest gun control item Originally posted by powerman Originally posted by dmiller5
Heller v DC does not apply to the states, McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), is a landmark[1] decision of the Supreme Court of the United States that determined whether the Second Amendment applies to the individual states. The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states. It did not find that the other case applies to the states, it found that the second amendment applies to the states. ok, time to move on from this point. X You might want to get the actual point before moving on.... the 2A is a INDIVIDUAL right. PERIOD, as determined by DC vs Heller. When SCOTUS rules... it applies to all... not just DC. How in the world you would think it only applies to DC is beyond me. After ruling it is an individual right... SCOTUS ruled it applied to the States in McDonald vs Chicago.... I agree it was stating the obvious, but Chicago needed to hear it from them apparently. You are the one that brought up militia. You might want to understand it if you are discussing it. Just trying to help. You are still wrong. DC vs Heller could not have applied to states rights. As DC is not a state, the ruling only applied to the federal court. Therefore, HELLER DOES NOT ADDRESS THE ISSUE ANYWHERE OUTSIDE OF A FEDERAL ENCLAVE (I.E. THE STATES). McDonald vs Chicago is a completely SEPERATE ruling that extends the ruling in DC v Heller to the states. So the assertion that DC v Heller applied the 2A to individuals in the states, would be incorrect. |
|
Yet ANOTHER school shooting...and another thread about gun control. Pages: 1 2 3 | |||
Gun control - The Answer? Pages: 1 2 | |||
Medical Groups Oppose Gun-Law Change To Share Mental Health Records | |||
| ||||
|
| |||
|
| |||
|
|