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Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 (Page 10)
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 2010-11-03 1:47 PM in reply to: #3193152 |
Elite  3779      Ontario |  Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011shmeeg - 2010-11-03 1:10 PM Should we be doing the tests in the same gear every time and for the entire duration? I feel like I should have tested in a higher gear/lower cadence, but just don't know. I think I went out too hard and didnt pace well for most of the 20'. I know that for me I try to take the first minute at what I think is a sustainable pace (likely lower than I can really manage), and at a higher cadence. Then, after about a minute I'll up a gear, drop the cadence and bury my head. I find that if I try to hit the intended wattage/gear ratio right away, I'm going to suffer too much. I'll then start to suffer around 10 minutes, gut it out for the next 5 at basically the same cadence/power, and try to hang on for the next 3 minutes and push the last couple of minutes as much as possible. This is how I approach the 20min test. 3min test - hit it hard right away and try to hang on. |
| 2010-11-03 3:37 PM in reply to: #3193454 |
Expert 1179 Kansas City, Missouri | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 GoFaster - 2010-11-03 11:47 AM ....This is how I approach the 20min test. 3min test - hit it hard right away and try to hang on. Thanks, that makes sense. I'll give that a shot on the next 20'. |
| 2010-11-03 10:07 PM in reply to: #3192624 |
Champion 9430 No excuses! | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JorgeM - 2010-11-03 10:12 AM Love to see the suffering going on  I am back on the trainer and getting in shape after months and months of inactivity due to knee injury/surgery. Yesterday I did 30 min on the trainer at 120-130w (like 80w lower of what I used to ride for 5+ hrs!) and I felt like I was doing a 60 min all out effort, LOL! It is going to be fun get back in shape and track all of our improvements together! If you haven't done so, email or PM your email address to share the Google excel sheet so you can track your progress over time and see how others are doing. Slacker  Good to see you back training again, hopefully the injuries will be a thing of the past. |
| 2010-11-04 7:58 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Extreme Veteran 688 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 TT test is done. Average hr of 163 for the test = THR of 158. Thanks for suffer test Jorge. |
| 2010-11-04 8:05 AM in reply to: #3194456 |
Extreme Veteran 330 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 WOW - that was tough - but I squeeked out the first TT last night. I am finally getting a grasp on the plan - I don't know why this seemed so hard for me to understand . . . even after having it pointed out to me that my trainer computer displays power I was still thinking I needed to follow the HR plan - figuring the power meters had other features that I didn't. It is looking like I can follow the power plan though. So - I kinda screwed up my first test. I captured avg watts and avg HR - but for 30 minutes!! I imagine my results will be a little skewed between TT1 and TT2 . . . I ended with an avg of 184W - nowhere to go but up Thanks Jorge!! Renee |
| 2010-11-04 9:02 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Veteran 820 Omaha, NE | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Jorge, I didn't read through all pages of this thread but I was wondering if it really matter what brand trainer I have, or rather don't have lol. I'm looking into that right now. I know I'm not going to get a cheap one, but money is tight right now. From what I have read it looks like the Kurt Kinetic Road and Cycle Ops Fluid are probably the best choices. I do not have power tap, but does the one that you can add on to the Kurt Kinetic do just as good. I can get that all in a package for around $420. I also found this on at nashbar though. http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_502633_-1_201561_10000_200416 I have a coupon for 20% off so with shipping it be around $265 or so. I like that it has a power meter to go with it, any thoughts on how good it would be compared to the others. I'd like to do it based off power, or HR monitor but I don't have either one. I think the Nashbar could do the job. I have read a review that the powe meter isn't 100% accurate, but my thoery I guess is as long as it gives a consistant reading every workout, I will still know where I'm at as far as how hard to go, and how I'm doing. Thanks for any input. Chad |
| 2010-11-04 9:07 AM in reply to: #3194640 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 cstoulil - 2010-11-04 9:02 AM Jorge, I didn't read through all pages of this thread but I was wondering if it really matter what brand trainer I have, or rather don't have lol. I'm looking into that right now. I know I'm not going to get a cheap one, but money is tight right now. From what I have read it looks like the Kurt Kinetic Road and Cycle Ops Fluid are probably the best choices. I do not have power tap, but does the one that you can add on to the Kurt Kinetic do just as good. I can get that all in a package for around $420. I also found this on at nashbar though. http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_502633_-1_201561_10000_200416 I have a coupon for 20% off so with shipping it be around $265 or so. I like that it has a power meter to go with it, any thoughts on how good it would be compared to the others. I'd like to do it based off power, or HR monitor but I don't have either one. I think the Nashbar could do the job. I have read a review that the powe meter isn't 100% accurate, but my thoery I guess is as long as it gives a consistant reading every workout, I will still know where I'm at as far as how hard to go, and how I'm doing. Thanks for any input. Chad I don't have experience with the nashbar one but an athlete I coached used it successfully for the program. The readings might not be as accurate as a power meter would offer but still, as you mentioned, just having consistent number for you is all that matters. the KK and the C-ops trainers are great options for sure. |
| 2010-11-04 9:16 AM in reply to: #3194640 |
Expert 957 Reykjavik, Iceland | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 cstoulil - 2010-11-04 2:02 PM Jorge, I didn't read through all pages of this thread but I was wondering if it really matter what brand trainer I have, or rather don't have lol. I'm looking into that right now. I know I'm not going to get a cheap one, but money is tight right now. From what I have read it looks like the Kurt Kinetic Road and Cycle Ops Fluid are probably the best choices. I do not have power tap, but does the one that you can add on to the Kurt Kinetic do just as good. I can get that all in a package for around $420. I also found this on at nashbar though. http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_502633_-1_201561_10000_200416 I have a coupon for 20% off so with shipping it be around $265 or so. I like that it has a power meter to go with it, any thoughts on how good it would be compared to the others. I'd like to do it based off power, or HR monitor but I don't have either one. I think the Nashbar could do the job. I have read a review that the powe meter isn't 100% accurate, but my thoery I guess is as long as it gives a consistant reading every workout, I will still know where I'm at as far as how hard to go, and how I'm doing. Thanks for any input. Chad Looks pretty good. I have something very similar just a bit older from from Taxc. That also gives me watt and I agree with your theory that as long as it is consistent nothing else matter.
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| 2010-11-04 9:22 AM in reply to: #3194640 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 cstoulil - 2010-11-04 10:02 AM Jorge, I didn't read through all pages of this thread but I was wondering if it really matter what brand trainer I have, or rather don't have lol. I'm looking into that right now. I know I'm not going to get a cheap one, but money is tight right now. From what I have read it looks like the Kurt Kinetic Road and Cycle Ops Fluid are probably the best choices. I do not have power tap, but does the one that you can add on to the Kurt Kinetic do just as good. I can get that all in a package for around $420. I also found this on at nashbar though. http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_502633_-1_201561_10000_200416 I have a coupon for 20% off so with shipping it be around $265 or so. I like that it has a power meter to go with it, any thoughts on how good it would be compared to the others. I'd like to do it based off power, or HR monitor but I don't have either one. I think the Nashbar could do the job. I have read a review that the powe meter isn't 100% accurate, but my thoery I guess is as long as it gives a consistant reading every workout, I will still know where I'm at as far as how hard to go, and how I'm doing. Thanks for any input. Chad The Nashbar unit is a repackaged new Elite unit. It has a different power curve than the KK or Fluid2 fluid trainer based on what I found online in research fluid trainer MPH to power conversions. Take a look as reviews for the Elite trainer linked above to get a better feel on the units quality. I forget the forum I was on but I do recall some harsh words for some older Elite fluid trainers. BTW, you'll find people with KK or CycleOps trainer that say the power reading don't line up. There are factors that go into this such as the tension on the tire, air pressures, power meter cal, etc. The KK "power" meter for the trainer will do just fine for the KK and CycleOps Fluid2. Or you can just download the spreadasheet on Jorge's blog and use the MPH to Power conversion and save the $ and be able to use the power based workouts of the plan. |
| 2010-11-04 9:28 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Regular 609 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Jorge - any answer to my question above re: subbing a different trainer workout once a week? Thanks, Roger |
| 2010-11-04 9:53 AM in reply to: #3193211 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 JollyRoger - 2010-11-03 12:25 PM Hi Jorge, I was going to send a message, but I thought that others might be interested in your reply. As I think you know, I will be lagging behind by about three weeks because of a half marathon on Nov. 14th. Yesterday evening I attended a "trainer session" that is hosted by one of our local tri stores. This will run weekly on Tuesday evenings during the winter months and I have been invited to join. A different local coach runs an hour (plus) long session every week. No particular stucture - some weeks may be more power focused; some more technique focused etc. I would like to do this (the companionship and motivation plus post session beer is a plus!) and substitute this workout for the first of your workouts each week. Do you think that this will this adversely effect the outcome of your program in any way. Any good reason not to do this? Thanks, Roger You can do this for sure as it will help motivation-wise. Still, depending how easy or not the group trainer session is, you might want to keep the Days 1 and 3 for most weeks as those are the most specific and substitute day 2 which is a bit less intensive. If that is too much then do Day 1 and 2 and substitute day 3 with the group trainer session. The point is to get the greatest return on investment while letting your body adapt and handle the load within your own limitations. Day 1 and 3 are the most specific and intense, day 2 is moderate intense day and day 4 will be the longish ride. As far as how can it affect the plan, well it depends how consistent you are. The program was designed to maximize certain adaptations and follow a progression to allow you increase your max aerobic capacity, your sustainable power and increase your critical power. At least that's what I had in mind when creating it. Obviously it would work best if you follow it as suggested but also remember, it is just a general plan that has to blend with different needs for different athletes hence making adjustments to fit your needs will yield best results. If you do most of the specific days and train consistent 3-4 days x week, you will improve whether you do all the sessions or you substitute one with a group trainer one. If the group trainer session is 'easy' then do the tough session of my plans. If that session is tough then substitute one of the tough ones in mind. make sense? |
| 2010-11-04 9:54 AM in reply to: #3194670 |
Elite 3779 Ontario | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Mesteren - 2010-11-04 10:16 AM cstoulil - 2010-11-04 2:02 PM Jorge, I didn't read through all pages of this thread but I was wondering if it really matter what brand trainer I have, or rather don't have lol. I'm looking into that right now. I know I'm not going to get a cheap one, but money is tight right now. From what I have read it looks like the Kurt Kinetic Road and Cycle Ops Fluid are probably the best choices. I do not have power tap, but does the one that you can add on to the Kurt Kinetic do just as good. I can get that all in a package for around $420. I also found this on at nashbar though. http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_502633_-1_201561_10000_200416 I have a coupon for 20% off so with shipping it be around $265 or so. I like that it has a power meter to go with it, any thoughts on how good it would be compared to the others. I'd like to do it based off power, or HR monitor but I don't have either one. I think the Nashbar could do the job. I have read a review that the powe meter isn't 100% accurate, but my thoery I guess is as long as it gives a consistant reading every workout, I will still know where I'm at as far as how hard to go, and how I'm doing. Thanks for any input. Chad Looks pretty good. I have something very similar just a bit older from from Taxc. That also gives me watt and I agree with your theory that as long as it is consistent nothing else matter.
I ride a Tacx I-Magic trainer, and the first year I did this program my watts were in the high 200's, getting into the 300's - I thought great, I'm turning into a beast on the bike. Reality was that the trainer wasn't calibrated and gave inflated numbers. Now that I have a PT I have my trainer calibrated and it's within +/- 5% (not so much the beast). Either way, if you're numbers seem great (or dismal) on the trainer, the important part is that the number is consistent. Actual racing will tell you how you match up against everyone else, but this program will give you a great baseline and concrete feedback on how you progress over the 4 months. If you don't get a trainer with power, then use the spreadsheet donto provided. |
| 2010-11-04 10:00 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
| Regular 609 Raleigh | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Thanks Jorge - that makes perfect sense. Judging by the group session that I witnessed earlier this week, there will be no lack of intensity! I get your point, however about subbing session 2. No doubt I won't be able to make all of the group sessions anyway, so I will end up with a "blend" of different weeks. Thanks! |
| 2010-11-04 11:17 AM in reply to: #3154535 |
Expert 913 Lost in the Evergreens | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Sorry for the delay in posting Q1 - 20min TT results. Encountered some issues uploading the data from my edge 500. For some reason I was unable to get the unit to stay in mass storage mode. At one point in my mis-adventure I was on the phone with Garmin and they said press yes to delete all your data, ah no I'm sorta attached to it, Goodbye. I then called my LBS and they were very helpful about replacing the unit. Lucky for me, I went running instead. And this morning, I have data. Whoop Whoop! Ave Power for 20 minute test 284watts. I was targeting 308 but really suffered for 3 minutes between 15 and 18. Still finished strong, with nothing left. Could not even get off the bike, until 5 minutes into the cool down interval. Cheers |
| 2010-11-04 12:01 PM in reply to: #3188216 |
Extreme Veteran 516 Chicago | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 rymac - 2010-11-01 8:35 AM tbcoffee - 2010-10-31 7:20 PM Just had a question about how I will schedule my workouts. I will try for MWF and sat or sun for the long ride. Sometimes I work double shifts on mondays and I can't do tuesdays since I've got class after work and am usually home late. So the weeks I have to do doubles I would have to: fri - day3 sat - long sun - day1 wed - day2 is the fri-sat-sun not good to do consecutive? Thanks
Just from experience last year, the Day 1 Workout is usually the most intense and is best done well rested. Do you recover well after your long ride(s)? I recover pretty well from long days, but less from intense workouts. Should I skip the long ride on those weeks? wanted to do them since I will be training for a HIM starting late December and thought I might benefit from them. |
| 2010-11-04 12:05 PM in reply to: #3195093 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 tbcoffee - 2010-11-04 12:01 PM rymac - 2010-11-01 8:35 AM tbcoffee - 2010-10-31 7:20 PM Just had a question about how I will schedule my workouts. I will try for MWF and sat or sun for the long ride. Sometimes I work double shifts on mondays and I can't do tuesdays since I've got class after work and am usually home late. So the weeks I have to do doubles I would have to: fri - day3 sat - long sun - day1 wed - day2 is the fri-sat-sun not good to do consecutive? Thanks
Just from experience last year, the Day 1 Workout is usually the most intense and is best done well rested. Do you recover well after your long ride(s)? I recover pretty well from long days, but less from intense workouts. Should I skip the long ride on those weeks? wanted to do them since I will be training for a HIM starting late December and thought I might benefit from them. This is normal, I do take a bit longer to recover from different sessions. What you can do and see how it goes and take care of all the details in between sessions. That can make a big difference, but if it happens to be too much, cut one of the intense sessions maybe day 3. |
| 2010-11-04 3:40 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Elite 3913 far northern CA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Jorge....I did a time trial last weekend. It is held twice a year on the same course. I plan on using your plan to get ready for the next one in March. I recorded my HR during the TT and ended up with an average HR of 171. I used your conversion so I can use the HR plan and did Prep week 1/Day 1. I felt like the average HR I arrived at will be just fine for your plan. Should I still do the first TT test on your plan? I will only be doing day 1 and day 3 for the duration of the plan. |
| 2010-11-04 4:01 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Extreme Veteran 590 Northern Virginia | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Jorge, thanks for your "details" page on recovery, I definitely need to look it over: I did Week 1 Day 2 first thing this morning, and 9 hours later my legs are still KILLING ME  |
| 2010-11-04 4:56 PM in reply to: #3195648 |
Pro 6582 Melbourne FL Gold member | Subject: Using the MPH-power spreadsheet (RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011) Sorry, looks like the detailed instructions for using the MPH-power conversion spreadsheet were not included (doh!)  . The following is what you do to use MPH to find Critical Power upon doing both of the tests:Using the bike computer lap function. Example data: 3 min power test = 18.6 mph on the bike computer lap average. 20 min power test = 17.8 mph on the bike computer lap average. Go to the 'Watts to MPH' worksheet, for the MPH's listed above manually find the equivalent trainer power for the two MPH averages in the "Power" (A) column (5' 18.6 mph = 224 watts and 20' 17.8 mph = 204 watts). Then input those numbers into the "Critical Power" worksheet G9 and G10 cells. The above wattage numbers provides a Critical Power of 202 (Cell B23). Now the MPH power equivalent numbers for the power workouts are provided in the 'Percentages of CP For sessions' table in the middle of the Critical Power worksheet. So for example, when the workout calls for 90-95% you'll ride at 17.2 to 17.7 mph. I could make this process easier to do but the spreadsheet has already been posted on Jorge's blog and downloaded and I hate chasing rev's. Let me know if there are any questions via PM or email. |
| 2010-11-04 5:18 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Expert 913 Lost in the Evergreens | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Donto, I'm heading back to Coach's blog right now..... and i found the latest file. Thanks again. Edited by Fit4Infinity 2010-11-04 5:33 PM |
| 2010-11-04 5:57 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Master 2372 | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Dumb question. But then again 98% of what I ask falls into that category... I have paced my workouts here around this weekend (W2D3 tonight) because I have an actual TT race this weekend. Woohoo! 10 miles - should take ~25 minutes (no aero gear and I have no idea what the terrain is like). It could be a bit faster and could be a lot slower if it is hilly. What is the best way to handle this data - best 20 minutes, interpolate down to 20 minutes, use the full TT and calculate my CP with a bit different equation? Pretty excited about this weekend. I won the last TT by :07 (it was a weak field, what can I say) and I tend to enjoy these a bunch. What little TT action we have around here. If we had a bunch of them around I would be tempted to pull a Dave Luscan and train just for TTs for a year. Sadly, no way in Hades I'd be able to hit a 51:xx 40k like he did. Edited by sand101 2010-11-04 5:57 PM |
| 2010-11-04 6:01 PM in reply to: #3195819 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 sand101 - 2010-11-04 5:57 PM Dumb question. But then again 98% of what I ask falls into that category... I have paced my workouts here around this weekend (W2D3 tonight) because I have an actual TT race this weekend. Woohoo! 10 miles - should take ~25 minutes (no aero gear and I have no idea what the terrain is like). It could be a bit faster and could be a lot slower if it is hilly. What is the best way to handle this data - best 20 minutes, interpolate down to 20 minutes, use the full TT and calculate my CP with a bit different equation? Pretty excited about this weekend. I won the last TT by :07 (it was a weak field, what can I say) and I tend to enjoy these a bunch. What little TT action we have around here. If we had a bunch of them around I would be tempted to pull a Dave Luscan and train just for TTs for a year. Sadly, no way in Hades I'd be able to hit a 51:xx 40k like he did. As long as you ride all out for the entire TT use the entire time and just adjust the duration on the Critical Power excel sheet you can download on my blog. Any test between 3 to 30 min durations will work! |
| 2010-11-04 6:03 PM in reply to: #3195617 |
Coach 10487 Boston, MA | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 owl_girl - 2010-11-04 3:40 PM Jorge....I did a time trial last weekend. It is held twice a year on the same course. I plan on using your plan to get ready for the next one in March. I recorded my HR during the TT and ended up with an average HR of 171. I used your conversion so I can use the HR plan and did Prep week 1/Day 1. I felt like the average HR I arrived at will be just fine for your plan. Should I still do the first TT test on your plan? I will only be doing day 1 and day 3 for the duration of the plan. no, if you already did a hard effort to estimate your THR you can use that to get your training levels! No need to go through a suffer fest... until the next testing time |
| 2010-11-04 6:14 PM in reply to: #3154535 |
Expert 913 Lost in the Evergreens | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Has anyone read Dr Skiba's Triathletes Guide to Training with Power? |
| 2010-11-04 9:36 PM in reply to: #3195842 |
Extreme Veteran 590 Northern Virginia | Subject: RE: Cycling Program v3.0 - 2010 - 2011 Fit4Infinity - 2010-11-04 7:14 PMHas anyone read Dr Skiba's Triathletes Guide to Training with Power? Yes, and I love how Jorge is implementing its teachings. |
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