JohnnyKay and Fred Doucette's HIM/IM focused Mentor group-CLOSED (Page 10)

Endurox.  Quick absorbing sugar with a little protein -- I haven't found anything that works better.

I do not have a lot of experience with recovery drinks. I just drink a glass of chocolate milk and then usually eat a small meal. I save the chocolate milk for workouts of 2 hours or more. This is just easy for me since we always have it at the house.

Ok - so I'm just sitting here catching up on the all the nutrition info that was talked about earlier in the week. The flooded basement put me behind a little. I am not exactly sure what a "feeding bottle" is. Sorry for the dumb question - I'm new to all of this!

This all seems a little overwhelming. I don't even remember my water bottle when I go to the pool. I did a 1.5 ride/30 min run brick on Friday and only drank 1/2 a bottle of water! I'm sure that is not good but it was right between lunch and dinner.

yup...agree across the board.  This is one of the reason's I really love this sport.  Constant learning experience.

I use a GNC product called AMP Mass XXX for recovery.

It's marketed as a weight gainer...assuming you take the full 4 scoop/750 calorie serving size.

I take half a serving 2 scoops/375 calories and blend in a scoop of peanut butter...so roughly 450-500 calories.

The main nutrition facts of the product are (half serving...off the top of my head)

375 cal
62g carbs
25g protien
bunch of sodium
bunch of potasium

so the roughly 2.5:1 carb to protien level is really what I'm looking for.  I usually only take this after hard bike rides or my long run...so about 3-4x per week.  When on sale, you can buy the big container buy one, get one half off...so it comes out to about $1.35 per 375 calorie serving.  I don't take it because I believe it does some magical recovery.  I take it because it's a super cheap and convienient way to get about 500 calories in my body right after a hard workout.  If someone would make me a ham sandwich for $1.35 after every workout...I would prefer that. 

Recovery drink - not really following any plan on this, although I will have a protein drink + carbs (as food) after a long run/ride.

Fred - your comment about intensity in training and riding at 80% FTP for 3 hours.  I realize that your approach is a little different than Jason's in that your adding some shorter/higher levels of intensity within the long ride, but does it average out in the end to a ride close to that 80% mark?  Does anyone have a preferred method - long and steady or long wih higher intensity mixed in?  Also, will you run with any intensity for the long runs, or do you pace those strictly on lower HR zones?

P.S.  Manned up and got the run done in the wind, snow, and ice pellets.  Much less torturous than being in the treadmill IMO.

Got in my long run this morning.  Started out easier than normal, but got suckered into running an extra mile than I had planned, and a little harder than planned in the middle section.  Wisely backed it off the last 4 miles though and finished feeling pretty good.

Easy week coming up...hoping to give the body a little reset.  From what I hear, a lot of people in my training group are starting to feel it...so at least I'm not the only one.  Did pretty good on my diet the past few days after "calling myself out".  Will really need to stay focused this coming week since my workouts will back off quite a bit and my calorie burn won't be as high.

My question with the VDOT chart - how ca you figure out how accurate or close it will be for you on raceday?  I'd love to think I can rub sub 1:40 in my HIM (assumes I run a good HM in the next few weeks), but what distances in training do I really need to do to get a good predicition?  Running 10km after 90km on the bike isn't really sufficient - or is it if you have a high enough level of intensity on the ride and possibly run at a faster pace for the 10km?  So essentially, both bike and run training (in a test sessiono) are a bit harder than expected race intensity.

Good theory, bad theory?

I am a bit dependent on the caffeine but interestingly, I rarely have any before a morning workout.  Once I get out running or biking in the morning, my energy is usually kicked started by the actual exercise.  However, during work hours I definitely need my caffeine and will always consume several cups of coffee.

My plan finally calls for a "recovery" week which after 7 weeks of steady and/or slight build, seems like like it waited far too long.  I am certainly looking forward to the reduction in hours.

Caffiene - I use some in racing.  No idea if it really helps.  I probably average the equivalent of 2 cups of coffee per day.  Some days more, some less (usually tea those days and less caffiene content than my coffee).  The only thing I'm really 'religious' about is my pre-race coffee.  And that has nothing to do with the caffiene. 

vDot chart - It's an approximation.  No way to know how close you can come without doing it.  Since it essentially implies "with the proper training", falling short tells you that either you didn't train sufficiently.  Or that you paced improperly.  (Or, of course, some combination of the two.)  But, it's a reasonable guideline and something to shoot for.  As with establishing a vDot score, you prove it by racing.

Swim done this morning--more of a recovery swim after a lot of time on the trainer this weekend.  Plan to do a short run this evening.

Week will be interesting, since I have to figure out what I can fit in while accounting for the fact that Easter is likely a rest day next weekend.  Hope to have time to ride on Friday--and might drop a swim then as a result.  Running in a 5k on Sat which is run in honor of a family friend who passed away a few years ago.  Hopefully that will be post-long ride, so no time goals at all.  The juggling act continues!

Caffeine - I'm not dependant on it, but I drink a large diet coke at lunch every M-F...none at home though, and usually not on the weekends.  For training, I like chocolate GU, which has caffeine, but I don't think it's necessary for me.

VDot - I don't think it applies to me because I don't think I'm well trained through all distances yet.  My shorter racing speed is far ahead of my longer distances...I think.  I recently did an 8.15 mile running race in February at a 7:27 pace, which would imply something like a 45-46 minute 10k...which I think I could do, but I don't think I could do a 1:40-1:42 half marathon, and I certainly don't think I could do a 1:41-1:49 HIM run.

I also think that the VDot calculator doesn't apply well to Hawaii.  Here locally, a lot of the 5k, 10k, and HM races start really early to avoid the heat of the day.  Heck, even the honolulu marathon starts at 5am, and the Kenyans finish about 10 minutes after the sun rises.  So applying your 10k time done at 6am isn't going to correlate well to your HIM run time that starts at 10:30 am...unless you're doing your HIM in cooler weather.

FWIW...I estimate my VDot to be around 44...but I'm "hoping" to run a 1:55 for my HIM.

Plans for the week (recovery week)

Monday - Masters swim, cancel the normal 3 mile run
Tuesday - Cut run from 5 to 3 miles, and steady (70-85%) 75 minute ride instead of 90 minutes with 110%+ intervals
Wednesday - Normal day...3 mile run, masters swim
Thursday - Cut run from 5 to 4 miles, and group ride (but riding less aggressive)
Friday - OFF...compared to usual 6 mile run and 2k swim

Sorry I've been out for a long weekend - had a lot of catching up to do on this thread! I was in Palm Desert for my brother's bachelor party Thursday - Sunday. Ate like crap, drank way more than I should have, and didn't sleep much at all. Managed a 3 hour long run Friday, 1 hour run Saturday, 1 hour swim Sunday. It was nice to do some training in the heat. Highs were 96-99 all weekend.

I'm now in my peak volume week (18 hours)! Only 33 days to go until IMTX. Getting pretty excited! Tonight I'll hit the pool, might even try a 2.4 mile TT. I've done this once before and I think I was in the 1:06 range.

Recovery drinks: don't use them...I just eat a ton after long/hard workouts.

Caffeine: I drink a cup of coffee a day typically. Sometimes I don't on weekends. For race day I'll have half a cup as soon as I wake up (helps with going to the bathroom!).

-Dave