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2012-10-04 6:28 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

bzgl40 - 2012-10-04 2:09 AM Question for the group.  How do you slow down your runs without hurting form?  I know I need to slow down (from my already really slow pace) for my longer runs.  But I start my runs feeling so good that I kind of go off and seem to forget that I have to turn around and come on back home.  If I am going to run 6 days I need to slow it down a bit.  But when I do that I feel my form changing, turning back to that marathon shuffle I use to use that I am trying to break out of.

Have you considered a run/walk method?  It could allow you to run at your comfortable pace, and the walk breaks would allow you to hold that pace for the entire run.

***Here's a random thought I just had, and would like to hear feedback on it***

I think our bodies are designed to run at a certain minimum pace (which of course is different for everyone, and can change as fitness changes).  If you force yourself to run too slow, I think it becomes inefficient.  Try "running" at 2 mph.  You'll likely exert more energy than walking, not to mention using up mental energy trying to stay at that speed.

If you don't yet have the endurance to run at this "minimum pace", then maybe a run/walk is in order?  What do you guys think?



2012-10-04 6:39 PM
in reply to: #4441417

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
TSimone - 2012-10-04 1:11 PM

Kind of a bike fit question.  I was looking over my bike fit numbers and noticed the stem length was 100mm on the fit paper.  The stem I have is 90mm.  1) How big of a deal is this?  and 2) If it is a big deal how does one decide which brand to get?

Secondary note:  Per my fitter, the stem length is one of the important numbers.  I'm a little surprised they didn't swap this out when I got the bike considering that would be more $$ for them.  I'm equally irritated that I've missed this for so long. 

I'm probably the last person that should answer, but I will anyway because if I'm wrong, I would like to be corrected.

From my understanding in a tri bike fit, stem length will impact where the arm rest pads line up to your forearms, and where you hands sit on the extensions.  You could keep the same "fit" (meaning angles) with a longer or shorter stem, but you would have to adjust where your forearms rest on the pads and how your hands grasp the extensions (unless you move the armpads back or forth, or use longer or shorter extensions).  This may or may not lead to comfort issues...only you can say but I don't think it should impact your aerodynamics or power output if you are comfortable.  If while using a different length stem, you are not adjusting the armpads/extensions, and are resting your forearms on arm pads the same way as you were fit, then you are changing the angles.  How much of an angle change and how important, I don't know. 

For road bike fits, I think stem length is much more important because we generally ride a lot on the hoods with our hands having access to the brakes/shifters.  So using a longer or shorter stem will change our angles in the position we use most.

2012-10-04 6:54 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tri808 - 2012-10-04 7:28 PM

***Here's a random thought I just had, and would like to hear feedback on it***

I think our bodies are designed to run at a certain minimum pace (which of course is different for everyone, and can change as fitness changes).  If you force yourself to run too slow, I think it becomes inefficient.  Try "running" at 2 mph.  You'll likely exert more energy than walking, not to mention using up mental energy trying to stay at that speed.

If you don't yet have the endurance to run at this "minimum pace", then maybe a run/walk is in order?  What do you guys think?

There's certainly nothing wrong with run/walk.

I agree with Fred -- all of us can run slowly, and can do so with reasonable form.  I've run with my kids many times, and the youngest runs 12:00/mile or slower, which is more than double my 5K pace.  Now yes, there is an extreme slower than which engaging the running motion is silly.  But I'd suggest that this extreme is could be as slow as 15:00/mile.

2012-10-04 6:55 PM
in reply to: #4441442

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tri808 - 2012-10-04 7:39 PM
TSimone - 2012-10-04 1:11 PM

Kind of a bike fit question.  I was looking over my bike fit numbers and noticed the stem length was 100mm on the fit paper.  The stem I have is 90mm.  1) How big of a deal is this?  and 2) If it is a big deal how does one decide which brand to get?

Secondary note:  Per my fitter, the stem length is one of the important numbers.  I'm a little surprised they didn't swap this out when I got the bike considering that would be more $$ for them.  I'm equally irritated that I've missed this for so long. 

I'm probably the last person that should answer, but I will anyway because if I'm wrong, I would like to be corrected.

From my understanding in a tri bike fit, stem length will impact where the arm rest pads line up to your forearms, and where you hands sit on the extensions.  You could keep the same "fit" (meaning angles) with a longer or shorter stem, but you would have to adjust where your forearms rest on the pads and how your hands grasp the extensions (unless you move the armpads back or forth, or use longer or shorter extensions).  This may or may not lead to comfort issues...only you can say but I don't think it should impact your aerodynamics or power output if you are comfortable.  If while using a different length stem, you are not adjusting the armpads/extensions, and are resting your forearms on arm pads the same way as you were fit, then you are changing the angles.  How much of an angle change and how important, I don't know. 

For road bike fits, I think stem length is much more important because we generally ride a lot on the hoods with our hands having access to the brakes/shifters.  So using a longer or shorter stem will change our angles in the position we use most.

I agree.  One thing that could be affected by moving pads around relative to the stem is handling.  But 10mm doesn't strike me as a huge issue in that regard.

2012-10-04 7:38 PM
in reply to: #4433790

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Have any of you read DC Rainmaker's preview of the new Wahoo Fitness KICKR Smart Trainer?  Sounds pretty interesting. 
2012-10-04 7:49 PM
in reply to: #4441497

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

tri808 - 2012-10-04 5:38 PM Have any of you read DC Rainmaker's preview of the new Wahoo Fitness KICKR Smart Trainer?  Sounds pretty interesting. 

Yeah, that seems like it might just be the best new technology coming out in that area.  I'd love to get my hands on one



2012-10-04 8:34 PM
in reply to: #4441430

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tri808 - 2012-10-04 4:28 PM

bzgl40 - 2012-10-04 2:09 AM Question for the group.  How do you slow down your runs without hurting form?  I know I need to slow down (from my already really slow pace) for my longer runs.  But I start my runs feeling so good that I kind of go off and seem to forget that I have to turn around and come on back home.  If I am going to run 6 days I need to slow it down a bit.  But when I do that I feel my form changing, turning back to that marathon shuffle I use to use that I am trying to break out of.

Have you considered a run/walk method?  It could allow you to run at your comfortable pace, and the walk breaks would allow you to hold that pace for the entire run.

***Here's a random thought I just had, and would like to hear feedback on it***

I think our bodies are designed to run at a certain minimum pace (which of course is different for everyone, and can change as fitness changes).  If you force yourself to run too slow, I think it becomes inefficient.  Try "running" at 2 mph.  You'll likely exert more energy than walking, not to mention using up mental energy trying to stay at that speed.

If you don't yet have the endurance to run at this "minimum pace", then maybe a run/walk is in order?  What do you guys think?

I do not think I would like a run/walk strategy.  I pretty much hate walking.  Just ask my dogs. 

2012-10-04 8:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
I've just been watching the Victoria, BC news...they did a segment on the marathon this weekend and mentioned how it was such and uplifting event because they were depressed as a city that they didn't make it into the final bidding for IMC. Haha.
2012-10-04 9:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

mndymond - 2012-10-04 6:44 PM I've just been watching the Victoria, BC news...they did a segment on the marathon this weekend and mentioned how it was such and uplifting event because they were depressed as a city that they didn't make it into the final bidding for IMC. Haha.

I guess it didn't take long for the Olympic "hangover" to wear off.Wink

2012-10-05 5:41 AM
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2012-10-05 5:44 AM
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2012-10-05 5:50 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Well, I'm pretty miserable this morning.  Yesterday morning at work my lower back started to tighten up for some reason.  It used to happen frequently but it has been years since I had any trouble with it.  As the day went on it got worse and I was pretty sore by the evening.  It's no better this morning either.  Frown

The worst part is I have no clue why it happened, I was just at my desk working like I normally do.  Nothing different that I can think of.  

2012-10-05 5:52 AM
in reply to: #4441338

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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
riorio - 2012-10-04 6:29 PM

So, I usually am completely unstructured during the winter months, but now you guys have got me thinking. I didn't race much this year, it was a planned year off, therefore I got very used to not having any structure/training plan. I loved the spontaneity of jumping into group rides, avoiding the pool and running on the trails sans watch. I was going to just plug along like that this winter. I do want to race again next spring, and now that I am reading your posts about winter training, I am wondering if I should try to follow some kind of program, mostly to get used to having a plan?

Thoughts? I'm not even sure how to go about finding a training plan. I plan on mostly racing sprints, time trials and maybe the occasional Oly. Do I even need a plan?

 

 

Sally,
 
I work on weaker disciplines or just improve in areas I want.  I will still maintain all three and will occasional push the intensity in something I am not focused on.  I have heard before that Triathlons is a winter sport.  I kind of believe this.  To me it means working through the winter getting better in the sport.
 
I have an uncanny knack to go without a scripted plan.  I can just visualize the plan in my head projected out about two week.  Three week and I am screwed, jk.  I have tried written plans and they were a disaster for me.  I have never use a coach or been coached.  It is not that they would not work for me; it’s a combo of things, trust, financials, and the ownership of just doing this myself.  I think people should try a coach if they want and can fit it into there lifestyle.  Don’t know why I mentioned this. 
 
Anyway, I think you will come up with the right discussion/plan and don’t let what everybody else is doing influence you to the point that you have to do something.  Does that make sense?  If you want I can give you my opinions on what to work on or focus on, but I think you know this. 

 

2012-10-05 5:58 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
axteraa - 2012-10-05 6:50 AM

Well, I'm pretty miserable this morning.  Yesterday morning at work my lower back started to tighten up for some reason.  It used to happen frequently but it has been years since I had any trouble with it.  As the day went on it got worse and I was pretty sore by the evening.  It's no better this morning either.  Frown

The worst part is I have no clue why it happened, I was just at my desk working like I normally do.  Nothing different that I can think of.  

Probably from that crazy swim you did the other day.  My head still hurts from looking at it.  Wink

 

 

 

2012-10-05 6:05 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
tasr - 2012-10-05 7:58 AM
axteraa - 2012-10-05 6:50 AM

Well, I'm pretty miserable this morning.  Yesterday morning at work my lower back started to tighten up for some reason.  It used to happen frequently but it has been years since I had any trouble with it.  As the day went on it got worse and I was pretty sore by the evening.  It's no better this morning either.  Frown

The worst part is I have no clue why it happened, I was just at my desk working like I normally do.  Nothing different that I can think of.  

Probably from that crazy swim you did the other day.  My head still hurts from looking at it.  Wink

 

I suppose it could have been a combination of things that led to it.  Between that swim and the one on Monday, I've probably done more fly than I have done in the last 15 years!  Still really weird how it just slowly got worse over the day.  My back troubles used to always be one sudden event that triggered it.

2012-10-05 6:08 AM
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2012-10-05 6:10 AM
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2012-10-05 7:01 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

Fred D - 2012-10-05 8:08 AM I would put my guess on the fly stroke as the culprit.

Just seems odd that it was more than 24 hours later before any symptoms appeared.

2012-10-05 7:58 AM
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Payson, AZ
Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
axteraa - 2012-10-05 5:01 AM

Fred D - 2012-10-05 8:08 AM I would put my guess on the fly stroke as the culprit.

Just seems odd that it was more than 24 hours later before any symptoms appeared.

Hum, given the 24 hour period you sure it is not good old fashion DOMs?  The timing would be about right.

2012-10-05 7:59 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
I also tend to make up training on the fly (not fly like Arend, though!), but keeping the big picture and key workouts in mind. My work schedule is very unpredictable.Anybody racing this weekend?
2012-10-05 8:02 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
bzgl40 - 2012-10-05 9:58 AM
axteraa - 2012-10-05 5:01 AM

Fred D - 2012-10-05 8:08 AM I would put my guess on the fly stroke as the culprit.

Just seems odd that it was more than 24 hours later before any symptoms appeared.

Hum, given the 24 hour period you sure it is not good old fashion DOMs?  The timing would be about right.

It sure doesn't feel like DOMS but my wife agrees with you....



2012-10-05 8:10 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

I spent the whole year without a plan.  I just knew that I wanted to swim more than in the past, stay strong on the bike, and try to improve the run.  For the most part it worked out really well, and not having any real structure meant that if I missed a workout, or backed off and did one easier or shorter than intended, then I wasn't really beating myself up for not following the plan - I just didn't have one.

But now I want to try and add back some real structure and see what it does in terms of generating improvements, as well as how I handle it.  If I find that life doesn't allow for a really regimented plan, then I'm fine with going back to just winging it on a daily/weekly basis. 

2012-10-05 8:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III

On target for the first 15 mile week is a long time.  Surprisingly pleased with that.  If I get a wild hair, I might just start swimming again next week.  Also worth noting, even the shortest and slowest run is ill-advised following a massive Mexican lunch feast. 

 

2012-10-05 8:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Maybe I am just hashing out semantics, but I really have a plan in my head. Trying to explain this makes me sound crazy. I see it blocked out what I will be doing with intensity and ez days. Now I may vary the intensity, ez day or move around the training "on the fly" but more so with just intensity. I see made up on the fly type of training day by day and unstructured. Not saying that can't work just saying I see a difference in the to. I encourage, nay strongly encourage people to use plans. Whether its experience, just plane skill, you to do it in your mind, write it out or if a coach prescribes it. Just have a plan.
2012-10-05 8:47 AM
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Subject: RE: Fred D Mentor Group Part III
Goosedog - 2012-10-05 9:34 AM

On target for the first 15 mile week is a long time.  Surprisingly pleased with that.  If I get a wild hair, I might just start swimming again next week.  Also worth noting, even the shortest and slowest run is ill-advised following a massive Mexican lunch feast. 

 

hahah - I'll add that a run is after an eggs benedict brunch is equally ill-advised

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