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2012-10-18 3:56 PM
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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 3:36 PM

ejshowers - 2012-10-18 12:56 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:42 PM

Saw this article talking about some of the whoppers Obama told during the last debate.

Which one was the most factually inaccurate statement by Obama?

It's a difficult pick for me but I'd say the one on the Federal Oil production.

breitbart?  seriously?  won't waste my time going there....

Fair enough, do you think Obama was accurate when he said oil production on Federal land was up?

I'll be happy to look at any source you provide to back up whatever you say.



Which year? Romney was right when he said it fell 14 percent in 2011.

It rose 12 percent in 2009 and 15 percent in 2010.

From 2003 to 2008, though, it fell considerably. From 2008 to 2011, it rose 12.3 percent to 646 million barrels.

http://www.eia.gov/analysis/requests/federallands/pdf/eia-federalla...

Edited by mr2tony 2012-10-18 3:58 PM


2012-10-18 3:57 PM
in reply to: #4459628

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 3:36 PM
ejshowers - 2012-10-18 12:56 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:42 PM

Saw this article talking about some of the whoppers Obama told during the last debate.

Which one was the most factually inaccurate statement by Obama?

It's a difficult pick for me but I'd say the one on the Federal Oil production.

breitbart?  seriously?  won't waste my time going there....

Fair enough, do you think Obama was accurate when he said oil production on Federal land was up?

I'll be happy to look at any source you provide to back up whatever you say.

It is up from when he took office in 2008. 

2008 - 3.3 quadrillion

2009 - 3.7 quadrillion

2010 - 4.3 quadrillion

2011 - 3.7 quadrillion.

According to this article it is mainly down because of the reduction in application approvals due to Deep Water disaster in the Gulf.

http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2012/10/17/obama-v-romney-who%E2%80%99s-right-on-oil-production/

Got this off of a VERY quick google.  Don't have the time to jump around more to verify.

2012-10-18 4:02 PM
in reply to: #4459628

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:36 PM
ejshowers - 2012-10-18 12:56 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:42 PM

Saw this article talking about some of the whoppers Obama told during the last debate.

Which one was the most factually inaccurate statement by Obama?

It's a difficult pick for me but I'd say the one on the Federal Oil production.

breitbart?  seriously?  won't waste my time going there....

Fair enough, do you think Obama was accurate when he said oil production on Federal land was up?

I'll be happy to look at any source you provide to back up whatever you say.

 

This is probably the closest anyone will get to it. If you look oil was up double digits his first 2 years until the Deepwater disaster. Officially, it is down, but there's a good reason for that.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/16/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-oil-production-down-14-percent-ye/

2012-10-18 4:37 PM
in reply to: #4453897

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
Production and exploration are different. Remember in 2008 when the R's said "drill baby drill" and the Dems said it would take too long for the oil to start flowing?

It takes years of exploration to result in production. So if production is up now, it's because the price of a barrel was up 4 years ago.

Denying permits now will affect production in 2016. This administration has only allowed Solar on Fed lands. They have obstructed Oil, Gas, Wind, and have prevented Yucca Mountain from storing nuke material which affects nuke development.
2012-10-18 4:42 PM
in reply to: #4453897

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
That's not the point. The question was, Is oil production up? The answer is yes.

If you want to argue your points, fair enough, but to say he was lying is itself a lie.
2012-10-18 4:43 PM
in reply to: #4459735

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
GomesBolt - 2012-10-18 4:37 PM

Production and exploration are different. Remember in 2008 when the R's said "drill baby drill" and the Dems said it would take too long for the oil to start flowing?

It takes years of exploration to result in production. So if production is up now, it's because the price of a barrel was up 4 years ago.

Denying permits now will affect production in 2016. This administration has only allowed Solar on Fed lands. They have obstructed Oil, Gas, Wind, and have prevented Yucca Mountain from storing nuke material which affects nuke development.


Is this your way of admitting that oil production on federal lands has in fact increased since Obama took office?



2012-10-18 4:44 PM
in reply to: #4459747

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
crowny2 - 2012-10-18 4:42 PM

That's not the point. The question was, Is oil production up? The answer is yes.

If you want to argue your points, fair enough, but to say he was lying is itself a lie.


Correct. People shouldn't argue the facts then when they're presented change their tune.


`LIES LIES LIES! OK truth BUUUUUUUT ...'
2012-10-18 4:48 PM
in reply to: #4453897

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Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida
Subject: RE: pres debate #2
It's my way of saying that Production is up despite the Obama Administration not because of it. He has reduced licenses that at $100/barrel would be exploring now for oil in 2016. Increased oil production is one thing you can blame on Bush. The chickens will come home to roost on this one.

On another note, is Bill getting even for Hillary? I couldn't find the rest of the speech...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/18/bill_clinton_romneys_argument_is_true_obama_hasnt_fixed_country.html
2012-10-18 4:50 PM
in reply to: #4459759

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
GomesBolt - 2012-10-18 4:48 PM

It's my way of saying that Production is up despite the Obama Administration not because of it. He has reduced licenses that at $100/barrel would be exploring now for oil in 2016. Increased oil production is one thing you can blame on Bush. The chickens will come home to roost on this one.

On another note, is Bill getting even for Hillary? I couldn't find the rest of the speech...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/18/bill_clinton_romneys_argument_is_true_obama_hasnt_fixed_country.html


The economy sucks despite the Obama Administration, not because of it.

Hey I can do that too!
2012-10-18 4:58 PM
in reply to: #4453897

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
Ok, as someone in the energy industry, I have to say all I see is that this admin has prevented permits on federal lands.

Oil production on private lands is up, fed lands, it's down. Romney said this over and over.

From the ultra-conservative SF Chronicle: While the U.S. is harvesting more oil from within its own borders, much of the surge in domestic crude production is coming from private lands, not federal tracts under the government’s control — a disparity Mitt Romney highlighted on the Hofstra University stage.
http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2012/10/17/obama-v-romney-who’s-right-on-oil-production/
2012-10-18 5:03 PM
in reply to: #4459772

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
GomesBolt - 2012-10-18 4:58 PM

Ok, as someone in the energy industry, I have to say all I see is that this admin has prevented permits on federal lands.

Oil production on private lands is up, fed lands, it's down. Romney said this over and over.

From the ultra-conservative SF Chronicle: While the U.S. is harvesting more oil from within its own borders, much of the surge in domestic crude production is coming from private lands, not federal tracts under the government’s control — a disparity Mitt Romney highlighted on the Hofstra University stage.
http://blog.sfgate.com/nov05election/2012/10/17/obama-v-romney-who’s-right-on-oil-production/


OK.

A question was asked. I posted a link from the Energy Department with the actual output numbers that answered the question. This isn't a point of contention.


2012-10-18 5:33 PM
in reply to: #4459762

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
mr2tony - 2012-10-18 5:50 PM

GomesBolt - 2012-10-18 4:48 PM

It's my way of saying that Production is up despite the Obama Administration not because of it. He has reduced licenses that at $100/barrel would be exploring now for oil in 2016. Increased oil production is one thing you can blame on Bush. The chickens will come home to roost on this one.

On another note, is Bill getting even for Hillary? I couldn't find the rest of the speech...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/18/bill_clinton_romneys_argument_is_true_obama_hasnt_fixed_country.html


The economy sucks despite the Obama Administration, not because of it.

Hey I can do that too!


Just curious, the economy sucks despite the Obama Administration because ............. it wouldn't matter which admin was in office because economies are cyclical and really not effected by Presidential admins ? or Obama's efforts haven't had time to work or something else ? or it was so bad he had no chance to fix it ?
2012-10-18 7:44 PM
in reply to: #4459810

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2

tri42 - 2012-10-18 4:33 PM
mr2tony - 2012-10-18 5:50 PM
GomesBolt - 2012-10-18 4:48 PM It's my way of saying that Production is up despite the Obama Administration not because of it. He has reduced licenses that at $100/barrel would be exploring now for oil in 2016. Increased oil production is one thing you can blame on Bush. The chickens will come home to roost on this one.

On another note, is Bill getting even for Hillary? I couldn't find the rest of the speech...
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2012/10/18/bill_clinton_romneys_argument_is_true_obama_hasnt_fixed_country.html
The economy sucks despite the Obama Administration, not because of it. Hey I can do that too!
Just curious, the economy sucks despite the Obama Administration because ............. it wouldn't matter which admin was in office because economies are cyclical and really not effected by Presidential admins ? or Obama's efforts haven't had time to work or something else ? or it was so bad he had no chance to fix it ?

There is a substantial amount of economic theory out there on the length of time it takes to fully recover from a major financial crisis. That's why I have said the economy will continue to suck all through the next 4 years, regardless of who wins in November.

2012-10-18 10:24 PM
in reply to: #4459676

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
JoshR - 2012-10-18 2:02 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:36 PM
ejshowers - 2012-10-18 12:56 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:42 PM

Saw this article talking about some of the whoppers Obama told during the last debate.

Which one was the most factually inaccurate statement by Obama?

It's a difficult pick for me but I'd say the one on the Federal Oil production.

breitbart?  seriously?  won't waste my time going there....

Fair enough, do you think Obama was accurate when he said oil production on Federal land was up?

I'll be happy to look at any source you provide to back up whatever you say.

 

This is probably the closest anyone will get to it. If you look oil was up double digits his first 2 years until the Deepwater disaster. Officially, it is down, but there's a good reason for that.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/16/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-oil-production-down-14-percent-ye/

Thanks Josh for this and to everyone else who provided links or info on this topic.

First I have to say my understanding or impression of what has transpired since Obama took office on this topic isn't as I thought.

It looks like if the question was it down in 2011 over the prior year or two the answer is yes, however it looks like the production in 2011 was higher than in 2008 or 2007 for Federal land including Indian Reservations.

Permits on the other hand are down.

Both of these were affected by the Oil Spill in 2010 in the Gulf. After spending more time than I should, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that both were correct and both were wrong on this topic.

The biggest point against Obama on the oil issue are he had the DOJ go after the fracking <sp> in South Dakota, one state with good employment #'s and his refusal to get the Canada Pipe Line approved.

Again thanks for the input, I feel somewhat less ignorant on the issue than I was prior to everyone's input.

2012-10-19 8:29 AM
in reply to: #4460110

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 9:24 PM
JoshR - 2012-10-18 2:02 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:36 PM
ejshowers - 2012-10-18 12:56 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:42 PM

Saw this article talking about some of the whoppers Obama told during the last debate.

Which one was the most factually inaccurate statement by Obama?

It's a difficult pick for me but I'd say the one on the Federal Oil production.

breitbart?  seriously?  won't waste my time going there....

Fair enough, do you think Obama was accurate when he said oil production on Federal land was up?

I'll be happy to look at any source you provide to back up whatever you say.

 

This is probably the closest anyone will get to it. If you look oil was up double digits his first 2 years until the Deepwater disaster. Officially, it is down, but there's a good reason for that.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/16/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-oil-production-down-14-percent-ye/

Thanks Josh for this and to everyone else who provided links or info on this topic.

First I have to say my understanding or impression of what has transpired since Obama took office on this topic isn't as I thought.

It looks like if the question was it down in 2011 over the prior year or two the answer is yes, however it looks like the production in 2011 was higher than in 2008 or 2007 for Federal land including Indian Reservations.

Permits on the other hand are down.

Both of these were affected by the Oil Spill in 2010 in the Gulf. After spending more time than I should, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that both were correct and both were wrong on this topic.

The biggest point against Obama on the oil issue are he had the DOJ go after the frackingin South Dakota, one state with good employment #'s and his refusal to get the Canada Pipe Line approved.

Again thanks for the input, I feel somewhat less ignorant on the issue than I was prior to everyone's input.

 

See, this is another problem in our country. How many people do you think sat down and looked up the info? I would guess you and 1% of the other people. The rest either believe Romney or Obama. It's sad.

2012-10-19 8:53 AM
in reply to: #4460390

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
JoshR - 2012-10-19 9:29 AM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 9:24 PM
JoshR - 2012-10-18 2:02 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:36 PM
ejshowers - 2012-10-18 12:56 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:42 PM

Saw this article talking about some of the whoppers Obama told during the last debate.

Which one was the most factually inaccurate statement by Obama?

It's a difficult pick for me but I'd say the one on the Federal Oil production.

breitbart?  seriously?  won't waste my time going there....

Fair enough, do you think Obama was accurate when he said oil production on Federal land was up?

I'll be happy to look at any source you provide to back up whatever you say.

 

This is probably the closest anyone will get to it. If you look oil was up double digits his first 2 years until the Deepwater disaster. Officially, it is down, but there's a good reason for that.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/16/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-oil-production-down-14-percent-ye/

Thanks Josh for this and to everyone else who provided links or info on this topic.

First I have to say my understanding or impression of what has transpired since Obama took office on this topic isn't as I thought.

It looks like if the question was it down in 2011 over the prior year or two the answer is yes, however it looks like the production in 2011 was higher than in 2008 or 2007 for Federal land including Indian Reservations.

Permits on the other hand are down.

Both of these were affected by the Oil Spill in 2010 in the Gulf. After spending more time than I should, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that both were correct and both were wrong on this topic.

The biggest point against Obama on the oil issue are he had the DOJ go after the frackingin South Dakota, one state with good employment #'s and his refusal to get the Canada Pipe Line approved.

Again thanks for the input, I feel somewhat less ignorant on the issue than I was prior to everyone's input.

 

See, this is another problem in our country. How many people do you think sat down and looked up the info? I would guess you and 1% of the other people. The rest either believe Romney or Obama. It's sad.

OBAMNEY 2012!



2012-10-19 9:42 AM
in reply to: #4460110

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Subject: RE: pres debate #2
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 9:24 PM
JoshR - 2012-10-18 2:02 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:36 PM
ejshowers - 2012-10-18 12:56 PM
crusevegas - 2012-10-18 2:42 PM

Saw this article talking about some of the whoppers Obama told during the last debate.

Which one was the most factually inaccurate statement by Obama?

It's a difficult pick for me but I'd say the one on the Federal Oil production.

breitbart?  seriously?  won't waste my time going there....

Fair enough, do you think Obama was accurate when he said oil production on Federal land was up?

I'll be happy to look at any source you provide to back up whatever you say.

 

This is probably the closest anyone will get to it. If you look oil was up double digits his first 2 years until the Deepwater disaster. Officially, it is down, but there's a good reason for that.

 

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/16/mitt-romney/mitt-romney-says-oil-production-down-14-percent-ye/

Thanks Josh for this and to everyone else who provided links or info on this topic.

First I have to say my understanding or impression of what has transpired since Obama took office on this topic isn't as I thought.

It looks like if the question was it down in 2011 over the prior year or two the answer is yes, however it looks like the production in 2011 was higher than in 2008 or 2007 for Federal land including Indian Reservations.

Permits on the other hand are down.

Both of these were affected by the Oil Spill in 2010 in the Gulf. After spending more time than I should, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that both were correct and both were wrong on this topic.

The biggest point against Obama on the oil issue are he had the DOJ go after the frackingin South Dakota, one state with good employment #'s and his refusal to get the Canada Pipe Line approved.

Again thanks for the input, I feel somewhat less ignorant on the issue than I was prior to everyone's input.

But that is the point... they both lie if that is what you want to say. I don't really know what to call it. But when you hear a politician throw out a stat, you can just tell by the phrasing it is "partly" true. Just like any stat, the Devil is in the details and it depends...

It's just spin, and you have to take all of it with a grain of salt. You just know that what ever it is they say, even if they can back it up with a "factual number", that it is the most rosy way of looking at that data and drawing the best conclusion for the one saying it. Usually it is not really true... like these number... the number may be true, but in the greater context it isn't as rosy as stated because they just grabbed an outlier.

What blows my mind is that politicians, and their spin supporters in the media can even point at one side doing it when they are just as guilty.... I mean if they throw something out, all they have to say is.. OK, here is what Romney is talking about and here is the rest of the context and this is why it looks that way. But what did Obama say... that's not true, that's a lie, that's false. No more so that what you say Mr. President. And after he gets his but kicked all they can claim is that Romney lied... and then what is the strategy for the next debate... whenever Romney says something... just keep saying he is lying. And then the spin media cherry pick quotes to prove themselves, and a incompetent moderator chooses one little thing to fact check when she herself was wrong.

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