Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club (Page 10)

Originally posted by switch

 

Originally post

ed by Asalzwed

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by switch

Oh, OK.  What didn't work for you about it?  Obviously, I don't know anything about it

But I also enjoyed your Dr. Phil pic

Here is a quick post by the man himself about it:

http://philmaffetone.com/180-formula

 

Going by his method, the highest my HR would get up to would be 157.  The problem with that is I would have to log A LOT more mileage to see similar gain than a program where I can incorporate speedwork.  I could never do a track workout using his philosophy.

I actually use HR when I train on the bike, but I'm not a fan of using it on the run, because far too many things affect your HR.  

Another thing that I don't like about his concept is that his calculation is based off a generic formula.  You do no testing to determine this heart rate, and your fitness doesn't move that number.

I perform way better using JD's pacing based on your actual race performance.  With that said Mark Allen trained under Phil Maffetone's method, and the results of that speaks for itself. 

Yeah man, I accidently had the Weeknd on my running playlist one time, talk about things affecting your HR 

 I agree with just using JD's pacing based on actual race performance. Also, on a personal note, I just like the simplicty. It seems like there are a ton more variables with heart rate and it's just ... clunky. The idea of a HRM and the testing and the re-testing...

Well, there is very little testing needed for HR. Outside of some initial increase for an inactive person the information (eg. zones) will be relevant for a rather long time. Likely on the order of years. There is no need to test/retest any more often than you would using a pace. Not liking the extra gear or the delayed effect of HR, that's another matter.

Interesting. Years? I did not know that.

 

But all my other comments are totally personal and I can definitely see why people would use HR as a tool. Especially people who need a little more discipline to keep them within certain ranges.

Yo, you talkin' to me?  

I'm actually kinda looking forward to doing a training block focused on pace, and not watching my HR.  I can tell you one thing, the heat jacks that HR right up there, and I've also noticed that when my swim is my first workout of the day and running is second my running HR is jacked.  Doesn't happen with the biking as much.  Is that weird?

 "people"

Very interesting about your double day HR variations!

That's another thing.  I train in the south where we still are seeing highs of 88-90.  At least it's not 100 anymore.

Yes, you can go over racing...like you said he believes the slower training = less injuries = more consistent running = greater aerobic base, which eventually translates to performance increases.  FWIW, my field tested (using TrainerRoad, not lab) LTHR was spot-on with Dr. Phil's MAF for cycling. 

OK, enough about the hippie granola dude, but I think the point to take away here is that we are all experiments of one and sometimes we have to experiment often to find out what works for us.

I hear ya...two weeks ago I did hill repeats in 96 degree heat.  My HR was cah-razie high.

Oh, what's next Michael, are you going to make dancing illegal? 

It's not a bad idea to check more often then that, but it's entirely normal for things to stay flat there for quite awhile. Kind of a rough guide is that it might slowly come down sorta similar to where age starts to have an effect on your performance.

And I totally get someone not wanting to use all that or not liking it. Very personal.

I incorporated the JD pacing recommendations into my running this week.  I'm going with a VDOT of 41 for now, though I think once I race my 5K in two weeks I'll be upping that a bit.  Since I'm only running 15mpw right now, I'm keeping the speed work a little under recommendation. 

I did two short "E" sessions for frequency purposes, and ran them a little slower than what my designated "E" pace should be.  I then had two Q sessions:

Q1:  "T" run of about 9' (out of 35' total time)
Q2:  "I" session (3 x 4' @ 10K pace with a 5% grade, which equates to about 7:10 grade-adjusted pace according to Strava; recoveries were around 6' (would've kept them shorter, but my course dictated it)

I'll add another E run Saturday to get my mileage around 15-16. 

First thought is that it works.  Now, maybe there's some placebo effect going on here, but I got through both of my Q workouts without my legs being cooked.  My normal mistake is to run intervals and tempo runs too fast so I really had to concentrate to keep the pace down.

PSA:   VDOT pace tables all on one page:

http://sdtrackmag.com/DanielsOneSheet.pdf

That's great, and doing fast runs too fast seems to be a pretty common thing.

I do think it takes approximately what? 10 Days for actual adaptations to be made from training? But your legs not feeling totally dead at the end is a good sign! 

Ahhh thanks!!!!

Originally posted by jmhpsu93 "Possibly the biggest challenge in doing tempo runs is to hold the proper pace and resist turning your tempo run into a time trial. Remember that the proper pace is more beneficial than a faster (or slower) one. This is a good workout for practicing your ability to concentrate on a running task and keep in touch with how your body feels while running comfortably hard."

Daniels, Jack (2012-04-18). Daniels' Running Formula, Second Edition (Kindle Locations 2691-2693). Human Kinetics. Kindle Edition.

Was he pointing at me when he wrote this?    And Strava is no help, either, with Segment KOM Obsession Disorder.  I'm trying...

Well, you, Elesa ... cough cough, a few others 

He only goes every other VDOT up to 45, but I think it's safe to say you're above that. 

Even if I wasn't, I would have Matt extrapolate it! 

Great! Another woman that wants to use me!

Ahhh just the fallout of being really, really, ridiculously good looking is all! 

You haven't even seen my "blue steel" pose yet!

More important, can you turn left?

I am an ambi-turner!

Agreed.  This was really helpful.

I'm back at JD, gang.  Had to take a break because of a crazy work deadline.  I have my life back now.

Where's Steve?  He's MIA...

Out of town for a few days.  I'm doing my long run today at M pace but because my M pace is so slow it actually is an exercise in discipline to take it down a notch.  I have a marathon next weekend and this is kind of a 13-15 mile simulation.

Is your ankle/AT any better?  I went through AT for three years before getting past it.  I just could not take it easy and I kept aggravating it.