Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 (Page 11)
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() givemashot - 2008-11-18 7:52 PM that is correct, I am basing the training zones off the Borg's adjusted 10 point RPE scale: below is the table:Under training zones and terminology, scroll to the bottom, and click on the table for HRM/RPE or the one for power meter, whichever you are using. A and B are listed at the bottom of the table. They stand for the intensity you are shooting for with that particular session's rest interval. I think. Hope that helps! I am still trying to nail down the RPE. I saw the table on Jorge's blog before I asked the question, but I know that there are two different RPE scales out there. Without having any clue what my max HR or lactate threshold are, I can't correlate these RPE to my HR. Would RPE 2 be easy, still able to speak? 4 going hard, can't talk but not max effort? Is an RPE of 1 sitting still, or moving sloooowly? Anyone have more info for me? I THINK the other scale is a 1-10 scale, so I am fairly sure which one we're using here, but...
I'll add to my blog asap! |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() aquagirl - 2008-11-18 8:01 PM Hello all fellow cyclists! I just finished the first workout and am confused by the zones. Are the zones 1-5 listed the same as Joe Friel's zones? I had blood lactic acid testing done in the spring (yes, I know I should get tested again) and got zones 1 to 5c. However the top end of 5c is my max hr so I don't get how these zones max at 106%. Or am I looking at this ALL wrong ? Are the percentages listed a percentage of my LACTATE threshold and not my max?? If this is the case I just worked WAY too hard! Sorry to be a moron about this! Training zones are based on lactate threshold (either power or HR/RPE). I don't not use Max HR because IMO is not important and basically a waste of time for athletes. when the plans tells you to ride at 95-100% of your LT it means you will be riding at or just below LT (on friel zones it is around z4-z5a), when it tells you to ride at 105-120% it means you will be riding above your LT basically at a intensity at or just below VO2 max (on friel zones around z5b-c). For know I would advice you to ride at your z4 when the plans tells you to ride 95-100% of LT, z5b-c when the plans calls to ride above 100% of LT. when we do the test you will learn how to calculate your zones based on that and you wont have more confusions |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() kudude - 2008-11-18 8:52 PM no worries, it was tough for those who havent been on the saddle for a while so I feel you pain Well I did Day 1 of the plan tonight and I have to admit, it was a little tougher than I was expecting. How tough is the actual workout going to be? lol
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2008-11-18 10:04 PM Thanks Jorge! So the percentages listed are % of your threshold not your max.....I'm glad we will be retesting .I had a hard time getting my heart rate up that high.....aquagirl - 2008-11-18 8:01 PM Hello all fellow cyclists! I just finished the first workout and am confused by the zones. Are the zones 1-5 listed the same as Joe Friel's zones? I had blood lactic acid testing done in the spring (yes, I know I should get tested again) and got zones 1 to 5c. However the top end of 5c is my max hr so I don't get how these zones max at 106%. Or am I looking at this ALL wrong ? Are the percentages listed a percentage of my LACTATE threshold and not my max?? If this is the case I just worked WAY too hard! Sorry to be a moron about this! Training zones are based on lactate threshold (either power or HR/RPE). I don't not use Max HR because IMO is not important and basically a waste of time for athletes. when the plans tells you to ride at 95-100% of your LT it means you will be riding at or just below LT (on friel zones it is around z4-z5a), when it tells you to ride at 105-120% it means you will be riding above your LT basically at a intensity at or just below VO2 max (on friel zones around z5b-c). For know I would advice you to ride at your z4 when the plans tells you to ride 95-100% of LT, z5b-c when the plans calls to ride above 100% of LT. when we do the test you will learn how to calculate your zones based on that and you wont have more confusions |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() aquagirl - I'm glad we will be retesting .I had a hard time getting my heart rate up that high.....
Just look at your avatar!!!! Works for the rest of us Good luck to everyone who dove in this week! I wonder when Jorge will start getting hate mail for people who can't walk. Edited by JoshKaptur 2008-11-18 9:55 PM |
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Member ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jorge- What is your view on using the aero position. Do you see the increase in %HR as simulating a hill and we should be up on the bars and the decrease in %HR as a flat and we should be in aero? Or, should it be based on personal choice which may change as our power increases over time? or is this a dumb question and it does not matter? Just did Week 1 Q1 and it felt pretty good. thx
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JoshKaptur - 2008-11-18 9:55 PM aquagirl - I'm glad we will be retesting .I had a hard time getting my heart rate up that high.....
Just look at your avatar!!!! Works for the rest of us Good luck to everyone who dove in this week! I wonder when Jorge will start getting hate mail for people who can't walk. Had a great first workout. Hope I can walk tomorrow. Can't wait for the retest. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Welcome to day 1 of bike speed class... um not sure I can do this. What I thought was the right heart rate must not be the right heart rate because I can't get up to 155+ from 135 or whatever in 30 seconds. I don't know if you just go fast untill your heart rate gets that high and then count the 30 seconds or if you are sposed to just pop up there 20 beats per minute etc. And once I get up there I certanly can't hold it for very long. Like ok I can do 30 seconds, maybe a minute, but 10 minutes..... splat. oh well, we see how it goes. Don't put me on any teams or anything though, I don't want to let anyone down. I may well die on my 20 mile run tomorrow 8). |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Baowolf - 2008-11-19 12:13 AM Welcome to day 1 of bike speed class... um not sure I can do this. What I thought was the right heart rate must not be the right heart rate because I can't get up to 155+ from 135 or whatever in 30 seconds. I don't know if you just go fast untill your heart rate gets that high and then count the 30 seconds or if you are sposed to just pop up there 20 beats per minute etc. And once I get up there I certanly can't hold it for very long. Like ok I can do 30 seconds, maybe a minute, but 10 minutes..... splat. oh well, we see how it goes. Don't put me on any teams or anything though, I don't want to let anyone down. I may well die on my 20 mile run tomorrow 8). I responded to a similar question on page 10 of this thread (http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=138593&start=226) scroll down to reply #1814227. REMEMBER - until we test on a few weeks, go by RPE unless you know your cycling LTHR and it was tested recently. Go here to see the RPE scale that we are using: http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/2008/11/winter-cycling-plan-training-zones-and.html |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() pjdgreen - 2008-11-18 10:21 PM ride anyway you prefer, although if you race on a tri bike on the aero position it is better for you to practice that way. Usually riding on the aero postion tends to lower your HR a bit so you might need to push a bit harder, hence remember to use RPE as your primary way to gauge effort and HR as a secondary to make sure you are in the ballpark.Jorge- What is your view on using the aero position. Do you see the increase in %HR as simulating a hill and we should be up on the bars and the decrease in %HR as a flat and we should be in aero? Or, should it be based on personal choice which may change as our power increases over time? or is this a dumb question and it does not matter? Just did Week 1 Q1 and it felt pretty good. thx
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I joined you guys yesterday! Thank so much! |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Did my first workout this morning on my CT. I figured out that I need to do it in Ergo mode, it is too hard to hold the right power when I am using the 3D software. This program is going to Rock! Can't wait to see what my times are like in 2009. Thanks Jorge |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I did my first workout yesterday. I was not 100% going into it but I winged it as well. I ended up doing the incorrect workout (partly), but It felt hard. chalk it up to a learning experience reading the workouts. Workout 2 will be better :-) |
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Pro ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jorge, I feel the need to say thanks again before I ask another question.....so thanks!! I was thinking about my heart rate on the bike and realized that all the blood lactate tests I have had done have been running on the treadmill. I was given zones for both running and biking but the biking zones were extrapolated from the LT threshold on the run. My last LT # was 168 ( in that 168 was the top end of z4) and the zones I use for running have always felt about right in that my RPE seems to match my zones. This is not the case on the bike. When cycling my heart rate never seems to get as high as the zones tell me it should!! Can the LT# be totally different on the bike and the run?? This would explain a whole lot.......Glad we are going to retest. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2008-11-19 7:54 AM Usually riding on the aero postion tends to lower your HR a bit so you might need to push a bit harder, hence remember to use RPE as your primary way to gauge effort and HR as a secondary to make sure you are in the ballpark. Interesting, I usually notice the exact opposite. My HR increases as I get down into aero. Here's a very philosophical question: does calculating zones based on % of LT decrease in effectiveness as LT HR increases? For instance, I'm one of those chipmunk heart folks who have a bike LT around 185 and, if going all out, can hit 200+. So, since a % of a bigger number is a bigger number, my low end zones are 50 - 60 beats below LT and are wicked easy. Like its nearly impossible to stay in z1 its so dang easy. Like I get into z1 just getting my shoes on... Cheers! Tom Edited by Matchman 2008-11-19 11:58 AM |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() i just finished Q1 (yeah.... day behind). Fun! But hard. But my heart rate never came all the way back down for the rest intervals. Ah, well. i'm sure that'll come with time.... Thanks, Jorge! |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Rad-Onc PA - 2008-11-06 5:14 PM ..power meter I just bought for my kurt kinetic .... Does anyone else have one of these? $50 sounds like a very small price to pay for power output. I have the Kurt Kinetic trainer already. Someone talk me into it! |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() aquagirl - 2008-11-19 8:48 AM Jorge, I feel the need to say thanks again before I ask another question.....so thanks!! I was thinking about my heart rate on the bike and realized that all the blood lactate tests I have had done have been running on the treadmill. I was given zones for both running and biking but the biking zones were extrapolated from the LT threshold on the run. My last LT # was 168 ( in that 168 was the top end of z4) and the zones I use for running have always felt about right in that my RPE seems to match my zones. This is not the case on the bike. When cycling my heart rate never seems to get as high as the zones tell me it should!! Can the LT# be totally different on the bike and the run?? This would explain a whole lot.......Glad we are going to retest.
FWIW: My Bike LT is about 10 bpm lower than my running LT. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jorge, Can you post your testing protocol somewhere; maybe in your personal blog? I have continued riding all year and would like to test using your protocol. Thanks. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() rcberto - 2008-11-19 10:47 AM Rad-Onc PA - 2008-11-06 5:14 PM ..power meter I just bought for my kurt kinetic .... Does anyone else have one of these? $50 sounds like a very small price to pay for power output. I have the Kurt Kinetic trainer already. Someone talk me into it! If you don't want to spend the money but want to know what power you are putting out, check out this graph: http://www.kurtkinetic.com/documents/Power_Curves419.pdf Or, if you're a math geek, you can figure out power for yourself since it is a linear curve: Remember algebra? Good. The formula for the Cyclone and the Road Machine turns out to be a cubic function. If we let S stand for “speed” in miles per hour, and P stand for “power” in watts, the formulas are as follows: Kinetic Cyclone: P = (6.481090) * S + (0.020106) * S3 Kinetic Road Machine: P = (5.244820) * S + (0.01968) * S3 For example, to calculate how much power is produced at a speed of 16.1mph while riding the Kinetic Road Machine, plug 16.1 in for “S.” P = (5.244820) * (16.1) + (0.01968) * (16.1)3 P = (5.244820) * (16.1) + (0.01968) * (16.1) * (16.1) * (16.1) P = 84.4416 + 82.13017 Power = 166.571 watts |
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Expert![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() W/O #2 down! Besides my azz being sore still from Monday the session went great! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() rcberto - 2008-11-19 9:47 AM Rad-Onc PA - 2008-11-06 5:14 PM ..power meter I just bought for my kurt kinetic .... Does anyone else have one of these? $50 sounds like a very small price to pay for power output. I have the Kurt Kinetic trainer already. Someone talk me into it! Yes, and it does measure power. BUT, it doesn't measure how much power YOU are putting to the wheel. If the wheel is spinning, its measuring watts regardless of whether you're pedaling or not. A PT measures true power put to the wheel. |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I finished my first session today. I will be doing all of this biking outside, BTW. It was between 25 and 30 degrees, but after a while I warmed up. I don't have a gym membership (should come January) and I don't have a trainer yet. I learned of a new bike trail in a neighboring city and I decided to check it out today. I parked at one end and rode to the other. Total round trip was 8 miles. I mention this because I ended up doing 55 minutes instead of 40. Anyway, I just did 50% more of the last phase of the MS and 50% more cooling down. Now that I'm familiar with the trail, I can adjust my distance better next time. I'm up to riding about 24 miles a bike session and I've been biking since May. With this plan, I felt like my riding was worth something for the first time. That 5.5 minutes in the WU was the hardest part. Wow, what a killer. I loved it! Thanks, Jorge! |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() zia_cyclist - 2008-11-19 12:25 PM Jorge, Can you post your testing protocol somewhere; maybe in your personal blog? I have continued riding all year and would like to test using your protocol. Thanks. Ditto - I want to follow the power program, but would like just a base test before proper testing in 3 weeks time. Thanks Jorge. |
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Extreme Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jorge, Are you going to leave each week's workouts on your blog for a while? I'm asking b/c I can't start this week, but I'd like to do this week's workouts next week (or the week after). Thanks, |
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