Baowolf's Beginner Banquet -Sorry all tables are full no room.. (Page 11)

The swim machine sounds interesting, but way too much like a treadmill!  How is your shoulder holding up?

I'm currently focused on surviving that first OW swim in 2 wks, practice sighting without hips sinking too much, swim through cramps without touching down, make sure I can breathe on both sides if I have to, etc.  

1.  I usually come pretty close to swimming straight through without a lot of rest.  Will often go 250 yards to warm up, and then swim anywhere between 1K and 2K yards straight.  I seem to average around 2:15 pace without a lot of fatigue.  I do struggle with lap counting and timekeeping, but I think that's a pretty good average.

2.  Not sure, need to count next time (oh boy, more counting!). 

3.  No clue, never tried that.  Pace can be 2:10ish when I push a little bit.  I think the swim in my last sprint (275 yards) was at that pace, included a cramp so no kicking for a bit, and still felt pretty easy.

4.   Probably arm straight on pull, and I've also noticed if I bilateral breathe I tend to get out of alignment on my weak side (hips sink), but doesn't happen on strong side.  Think I'm going to stick w/ my left (strong) side breathing mostly....but wanted to get a little more comfortable on weak side in case I needed it in open water.

Question: What the heck can I do about these %&#* cramps in the water?  I don't think it's fatigue...seemed to stop happening for a while, but now pretty much every swim.  Happens very early on sometimes.  Usually in my feet, but OWS practice last week included a calf cramp that took several days for the soreness to subside.  Bought a nice batch of bananas for the week, and trying to drink more water.  What else can I do?

If you are running and biking more it is easier to get cramps in foot/calf from pushing off the wall in a pool.  Cold water will make your legs cramp more frequently.  I think I had 3 calf cramps during my IM at CDA with 59F ish water temps.  I just leave the leg limp and focus on upper body until it passes and then pickup with the kick again. 

The shoulder is holding up pretty well.  I am hoping that the 6 weeks of lite to no swimming will help it shape up.  I am also mothering it a bit by doing breastroke between freestyle sets.  So I will do a 600 to 1000 yards freestyle and then throw in 200 yards breastroke to change it up a bit and try to avoid overuse issues as much.  Sadly my breastroke is just about as fast as my freestyle 8(. 

I suck at offside drownding.  My wife who was on a swimteam when she was younger can do bilateral breathing efforlessly and can not swim for 8 months and then beat me in a 100 yard swim.... but after 2 miles I can catch up and pull ahead.  Very not fair.  I am encouraged that my swim endurance is coming back and I am almost back under 2:00/100 for 1000 yards +. 

If you are doing hard efforts you do have to break it up more.  Once a week I will throw in shorter sets with a pyramid workout. I will increase the speed of 200s until I can't hold it and then will do 100's until I have to do 50's and then bring it down slower and longer again.  Anything shorter than 50 yards just doesn't let me settle into a rythm. 

1) Well given this question today I pushed my normal 500yd max to 1,000yds, the most I have done continuously, and I did it at an overall 2:07 per 100 pace.

2) I counted my stokes on two laps and I came up with 12 strokes in a 25 yd pool but I think my rhythm might have been a little slower since I was counting.

3) This once again is the first time I tried going flat out and I doubt I could do it for long but it took me 20 seconds to travel the 25yds.

4) I would say my current issues are:

• When I bilateral breath, which is all the time in the pool, when I breath to my left my legs drop slightly.
• I don't really have a good rhythm to my kicking.
• My arm is straightish on the pull.
• I tend to keep my arm/wrist rigid when entering the water and when pulling back.

I am sure I have many more things that are seriously affecting my "hydrodynamicity" :D  These are just the things I notice from my complete self instruction.  Plus almost everyone in the pool is faster than me.

Marcus

Hey everyone, sorry I haven't really been posting too much on here, but I graduate college in 3 weeks and its been kinda of hectic. That being said, its kinda taken a toll on my training too, but hopefully I'll really be able to kick it into high gear soon.

As for this

1) What is the farthest you are swimming continuously currently and at what pace?

well, I have about six open water mile swims that I've done, and my best one was a little over 22 minutes

2) How many strokes (right hand into the water) do you take per pool lenght (specify 25 yards or meeters)?

usually around 10 to 14 strokes, but it depends on how hard I'm going

3) How fast can you go for a sprint (25 yards flat out)?

all out I can do around 15 to 20 seconds, but I'm pretty wiped after just one or two that fast

4) What is what mistakes are you making with your stroke (leggs sinking, problems breathing, arm straight on the pull, not waiting for your hand to reach perpendicular to the bottom of the pool before pushing back, over-rotating side to side (near 90 degree tilt), under-rotating side to side (near flat side to side, lifting head out of the water to breath), etc.

I usually don't have great body rotation, I tend to get my hand in the water too quick when I'm breathing, and I usually don't kick too much, I tend to just pull myself through the water 

Not bad 1000 yards for your longest swim at 2:07/100 and some faster speed in ya.

Karen your weekly run miles appears to be in the 8 to 10 mile range.  This is a great start.... but if you want to have energy left in the tank after the swim and bike... you need to run more miles to finish the run stronger.  Think of it more like a 8-10 mile run because the swim and bike are going to drain your strength.  If you were to go out and just do an 8 mile run today (don't) you would find that after about mile 5 you were running a little low on energy.  Once your long bike is around 25, your long swim around 1000 yards and your long run around 8 to 10 miles with a weekly run average around 20 miles you will finish much stronger at the sprint level.  It just takes a really long time to build fitness and speed.  The only real way to feel stronger on the run at your current fitness is to go slower on the bike.  In has taken me 4 years to really feel like I have some decent run gains, bike and swim, not so much.  But then I put more time into running. 

Lord grant me patience... now!  It will all come with time.  I would really like to be 3 mph faster on the bike... but I am afraid it will come with the pricetag of 10,000 miles biked in a year for a couple of years... to get there.  

There are some drills to work on rotation, kicking on your side, catchup drills, shark fin drills, switch drills, fist drills, and fingertip drills to work on hand entry.  Improved balance will help with the hand opposite the side you breathe.  Verticle kicking is supposed to help with your kick.   

 Only practice and balance drills will help with offside drownding er breathing, the rythm to your kicking will improve only if you focus on kicking to accent your hip rotation  as you initiate your stroke, verticle kicking will help with overall kick form and leg strength, bending your elbow on the pull takes a lot of focus (what I am currently working on) try to pull with your wrist and not your hand, try some fist drills and pretend your pool is only 2 1/2 feet deep..., fingertip drills, catchup drills and shark fin will help with hand entry and loose arm above the water. 

Swim is not my strong point but that is what I have for ya.

Happy Monday. I have not been on in a couple days because life has been incredibly busy. I graduated from college on Saturday after four years, and this week and weekend I am gone to be part of a wedding. I am working to keep up on my training in the midst of it all. I really don't know how ya'll with kids accomplish training too. I am working on it though and you all inspire me soooo much. I am thankful to be a part of this online support community. 

Ken & Cheri: great job on your races! Cheri you encourage me to keep pushing forward and I need that.

Lisa: I appreciate the list of names you made up.

STeve- I completely understand the busyness of graduation. I just graduated on Saturday and life has been crazy. Hang in there; the end is in sight and what a great accomplishment you will get to enjoy very soon! Congrats a bit early!

Tomorrow I will run outside - woohoo!

Congrats Steve and Samantha on somehow surviving school!  Hopefully I will be there in about 2-3 years if the years of Calculus don't kill me first.  Best of luck on your tri Karen I know that practice will come in handy for the real deal.  Don't forget to have fun!

Marcus

Swim questions:  I'm not swimming at the moment, but last year I did approximately 750 m in somewhere between 20-30 minutes without stopping.  I have no idea on the exact time because I didn't have a watch.  I didn't stop swimming because it was cold.  Also, I had no idea that there was a new way to do the front crawl, and I did the entire thing as a breaststroke (without goggles so I didn't really put my face in the water and probably had terrible form too.)  I think I have decent endurance, but I am s-l-o-w.

Anyhoo, this is the last week of classes.  I give the final next Tuesday and will try to negotiate a gym membership either next week or the week after.  I'm hoping they have someone knowledgeable about swimming. It seems like it will mostly come down to working on the new form.  I've watched the videos and more or less understand how it's different so it shouldn't take too long to learn.

In non-swimming news, I took a bike maintenance class tonight and purchased a basic repair kit.  I'm going to try some tire changing this weekend (and probably go back to the store once I figure out what size tube the bike trailer uses.  Most of my flats are on a jogger or bike trailer, so I'm hugely relieved to be able to do those changes on my own).  It was still light when I left so I fit in a quick ride afterward.  The bike store does group rides every Saturday at 9, so once I get my speed and endurance up, I'd love to join them. 

Saving our thread from going to Page 2!!! <GASP>  Haha

I posted my Race Report from this past weekends Half Marathon if anyone is curious. 

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=250707 

Thanks for posting your race report Brian. I look forward to reading it.

This morning I did a 32 minute walk/jog and made it 2.4 miles. I am pretty excited about that. I think being outside where I can pick my pace based on how I am feeling is so different from running on a treadmill. It felt great to get outside.

Who is racing this upcoming weekend?

X2!  I hate the treadmill, it has rained here in Louisville for almost a month straight and I am freaking out.  Been going out in the rain for several of my runs because I just could not bear the thought of spending time on that contraption.  The rain is supposed to stop tonight and the flood waters will have a few days of sunshine.  Hoping for those that have been flooded out of their homes that the waters begin to receed.

x3 on the treadmill or anything indoors for that matter! Glad to see more of us able to get out and enjoy!

Steve, thanks for the advice re: cramps and such. I was afraid of that....just have to wait it out.

Speaking of cramps, I had a back spasm on a run this morning.  This is a first for me (in the past some tightness, yes, but not the sharp pain).  Feeling great, 5 miles in, one step fine, next one, ouch!  Like a knife on one side.  Stretched it out enuf to walk home, but continues to be pretty tender just sitting/standing.  Any advice from those experienced w/ this on how best to deal and heal?  My next race is 1.5 wks out.  Hate to run right over the chiropractor before I see what I can do @ home, but maybe best given the timeframe?  

1) What is the farthest you are swimming continuously currently and at what pace?  1700 yds. @ around 2:45/100yd(super slow)

2) How many strokes (right hand into the water) do you take per pool lenght (specify 25 yards or meeters)? 11-14 @ 5'11"

3) How fast can you go for a sprint (25 yards flat out)?  never timed but around 35 seconds probably

4) What is what mistakes are you making with your stroke (leggs sinking, problems breathing, arm straight on the pull, not waiting for your hand to reach perpendicular to the bottom of the pool before pushing back, over-rotating side to side (near 90 degree tilt), under-rotating side to side (near flat side to side, lifting head out of the water to breath), etc.  My issue is 100% technique.  I am self taught over just the past month.  I've watched some of the TI videos.  SPL will go from 11 to 14 after lap 16.  My kick sucks.  But it's getting better each time.  I don't have the time for any of the Masters classes in my area.  I've checked.

Hopefully the rain is gone so I can increase my bike mileage.  Missed out on my long ride Sunday.  Had to ride on the stationary at the gym yesterday (can't afford a fluid trainer).  Tonight is swimming but I might put in a few bike miles before heading out.

I'm excited about this weekends race.  I have my tri suit, wet suit, number belt, timing chip strap, bike repair kit (tube, patches, CO2).  Anybody got a link to the main things I need to remember, i.e. swim goggles (2 pair just in case), socks, etc.

I want to post about a few other things just don't have the time right now.  Perhaps I can find time to post tonight.

Hrm.  I do tweak my back every once in a while and have to stretch it, do some at home adjustments... it usually works it way out after a couple of days.  Part of it depends on if it is muscular or spinal adjustment slightly out of whack.  Heat, massage, and I can't really explain some of the stretches very well.  I sit on the carpert, left foot on right side of right knee, left elbow on right side of right knee and stretch, reverse for other side.  Flat on back keep back on the ground and swivel left leg as far over to the left as you can till it touches the carpet and reverse.  Stuff like that. 

My right hamstring is still locked up from the marathon and I have a race on Saturday... will letcha know how that turns out. 

Thanks! I think it's muscular...and thanfully hasn't gotten any worse throughout the day, so will hopefully blow over with a bit of TLC.  Just kinda panicked since this is a new one for me, and I've seen my husband laid out for days w/ back issues. 

Sorry the hamstring is still tight.  You need to share w/ the group what race you are doing so we can virutally cheer you on!

You should honestly go see a PT who is good at traditional remedies(pressure points, accupuncture and so on)... its absolutely amazing.  They touch and rub like 4 spots on the complete opposite side of the body and boom back in alignment.  Tweaking something can very easily happen when you do something consistantly that puts more stress on one side of the body more than the other.  Culprits for me are my wallet in my back pocket and my backpack over one shoulder and not both.  Just an idea

Marcus

1) What is the farthest you are swimming continuously currently and at what pace? 

500 yards at 2:00 - 2:05 per 100 yards

2) How many strokes (right hand into the water) do you take per pool lenght (specify 25 yards or meters)?

11-13 per 25 yards

3) How fast can you go for a sprint (25 yards flat out)? 

19 seconds

4) What is what mistakes are you making with your stroke (leggs sinking, problems breathing, arm straight on the pull, not waiting for your hand to reach perpendicular to the bottom of the pool before pushing back, over-rotating side to side (near 90 degree tilt), under-rotating side to side (near flat side to side, lifting head out of the water to breath), etc. 

Not practicing breathing on both sides. Breathing too often. Start my swims too fast. Probably kicking too slow...not sure if that's necessarily a bad thing...Left arm stroke definitely weaker and with poorer technique than right arm.

Tonight I had a totally awesome swim.  Since it's my slow week according to my training plan (gold plan HIM custom plan), I only had a 800 yd swim planned.  I took the liberty to change up what I did though.  I was way faster tonight than I have been.

I swam 500 yd in 13:31 (2:42/100yd) which is fast for me considering I was not going all out.

I then decided to see what my 25 yd sprint would really be, 0:32.6 (fast for me again).

I then decided since I have my first OWS I should do more sighting practice.  I then swam 3x100 gator style (eyes looking straight out of water) while still turning each side to breathe.  Amazingly I was even faster than normal, 2:19/100 yd average.  I think it could be a couple of things.  First off breathing seems to be a little easier for me, but what I feel made the most difference is it kept my body closer to the surface instead of sinking into the water as far as I would with head down.  Not sure really without a third party watching me.

Well off to bed.  The weather has my training plans all messed up with me having to juggle indoor/outdoor sessions around.  I think tomorrow I will do a 0:45-1:00 bike ride with a 0:20-0:30 run brick in my tri suit.  Only done that once before.  Then on Thursday I need to practice mounting and dismounting my bike with the clipless shoes.  I currently take my time doing that and I know I am going to need to speed that up a little.

Thanks for all the words of encouragement.

Oh and before I forget, What size towel should I use in the transition areas?  12"x12", 18"x24"?

I don't have a list but did take a photo from my last race so that I could review later.  Most of it is easy to identify, the less obvious things are yellow electrical tape, an 3 pairs of goggles (tinted, clear and backup), zip-lock is my breakfast (sunflower butter and arnolds select thin), amphipod race belt and course map.

Good luck this weekend and look forward to your race report.

ETA:  That is the towel I brought that everything is sitting on.  Don't know the size but used a typical bath towel.

Could be that big'ol beer that is throwing off your balance.  It's makes me thirsty everytime I see it.

Hey Dennis, you're going to do great and have lots of fun this weekend!  I don't know about anyone else, but I folded over a bright beach towel into the space under my bike wheel, and also brought a small hand towel to dry my feet a little.  Having a bright/distinctive color is helpful in finding your spot quickly.  One guy on my row last time had a nice bright towel he hung upon the bike rack that made it easy for all of us to find our rack.   

Marcus and Steve, thanks for your advice!  Heating pad was helpful last night, and I think you're on the money re: the PT/trigger points/etc. if it doesn't resolve.  My chiropractor practices ART, and each visit also includes some PT, as well as adjusting as needed, so I'm betting he could help if the back continues to act up.  So far so good and had a good swim with the back feeling better this morning .

Ha, yes, it probably is that beer causing an imbalance!  Better grab one for the other hand just in case .

Oh, 13 strokes per 25 yards this morning.  And 22 seconds for one 25 yard length in what I thought was a sprint.  So how many strokes per length should we be aiming for, or does it vary based on your height?