Fred D's Ironman/Half-Ironman focused Mentor Group --CLOSED (Page 11)

I've used FIRST and it did work.  i got quite a bit faster and pr'ed over every distance except the marathon mostly because something dumb would happen right before the race (used it twice  - caught a cold the week before therace the first time and the second i injured toe -so dumb).  the  long runs you mention arent familiar to me... i remember there being 5 20 mile runs but nothing longer.  it's an aggressive plan so if the first few weeks are tough especially since youve been off running for a while it probably would be best pick something else

My first Half Iron i was way over stocked for fluid on the bike, i had the large two chamber aerobottle from Profile Design and 2 water bottle full of fluids, while i did not need to live off the course, the total weight of all the fluids was almost 6lbs!!!!!  For my second half, i had refined my system and had a small aerobottle between the bars and a single bottle on the down tube. Since i do most of my nutrition prior to racing i had about 400 calories in the aerobottle and 300 calories in the water bottle, i picked up a bottle of water on the bike and used it to wash my mouth out and oour on my head as it had gotten warmer. I did not throw that bottle away (Fred will get the joke) as i had deposited my empty in the water bottle exchange.

Now this year in the effort to be more aero, i will use a holder behind the seat, i actually screwed it into the seat itself as it is an adamo and i was able to secure it into the plastic frame of the seat, while not optimal and pretty much a jerry rig job it will be fine, the other i plan on putting between the aerobars as i have room, although that new speedfill between the bars looks nice.

Keep in mind, i do 90% of my training and riding on one of my road bikes, if i was to use the TT rig more often, i would invest in a "real" behind the seat holder, as when set up properly are a great option. Since weight is not a huge issue on a TT bike, i would go with the suggestion already made about aluminum cages bent in to be much tighter as to not eject bottle, they are sooper cheap and honestly, what are we talking about 40-50 grams over decent carbon cages?? The weight is not that much of a factor for a TT/Tri.

It has been proven by studies that a bottle mounted between the bars and ONE behind you is the most aero design for bottles for a Triathlon, if you are an aero weenie. Most pure TT races are short enough that you do not need a bottle or maybe just one mounted between the bars (like what i would use for a sprint or Oly).

I always max out at 20.  I like about 3 of those, alternating with 16 mile long runs.  I don't know that I have ever trained on less then 5 days of running though when training specifically for a marathon.  Not saying 4 wouldn't work, if the focus is right no reason it couldn't.  I always trained with a local training group and just did the plan they laid out.  My last one I used the new BT marathon plan they put out there (well, not so new anymore) and it seemed ok.  It goes by time though and for me and my slow arse the long runs didn't work, especially since I really needed time on my feet as my last marathon was 26.2 miles up a hill (Mt. Lemmon).  So I really added on to the long run and did it more by miles

I have a pretty standard set up - an aerobottle up front, one cage on my down tube (that's all that fits on my small frame) and the two bottles (Profile, i think) behind the seat.  I don't really use the behind the seat all that much except for really long rides or where i know i am not accessible to water easily.  I have launched a bottle a time or two but that's usually after particularly bumpy downhill on one bike route.  The back of the seat holders take some practice to get confident using - the reach is long.

The hydration system I've used for a couple years is one 3-hour bottle of Infinit and one bottle of water, to be replaced as needed, for HIM distance.  For the IM I carried two 3 hour bottles then ditched the first one as I finished it.  Infinit goes in frame so it doesn't eject, water goes in rear bottle holder or other frame cage.  For sprint, nothing, for Oly, a one hour bottle of Infinit, no water.

I will never use aluminum bottle cages in the rear again.  Yes, they can be bent so they are tighter, but aluminum fails, and the more you bend it, the faster it will fail.   The last time I did Wildflower long course my rear cage was rattling on the bike leg, but would stop when I had a bottle in there, even empty.  When I got to T2, I found that the cage had broken during the ride and the cage/bottle fell away.  Not sure where it occurred, but I shudder to think about it falling into the back wheel, especially during one of the long fast descents.  I have yet to do it since I've used frame cages last year, but I intend to use the carbon bottle holders behind the seat in the future.

There are other, safer (IMO) ways of keeping the bottle in tight - a couple rubber bands around the bottle, some electrical tape, etc.  Another way to deal is don't put anything behind the seat you can't afford to lose untilthe next aid station.

I only need one bottle on the back, here's an idea from ST, seems pretty lo profile.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=3709621;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread

That is what I have been told by many, including Maureen (my wife). She told me to get on with the running and biking and just maintain swim; I am with you... still shooting to improve a few on my next IM. 

Sort of like Santa? 

In all seriousness, I'd be interested to hear how you were using infinit/malto, whether you thought it worked at the time, and what happened to change that belief.

I still don't get the statement that living off the course is best, if something truly works for you.  We've all heard stories of aid stations running out, even in big races.  I think there's something to be said for being somewhat self sufficient and not solely reliant on what the RD puts together.

That said, I am way further back in the pack than you guys, so maybe it's a different mindset.

I guess the question for discussion is what are the pros and cons of living off the course as opposed to using mix "X"