Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 (Page 12)
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![]() rcberto - 2008-11-19 9:47 AM Rad-Onc PA - 2008-11-06 5:14 PM ..power meter I just bought for my kurt kinetic .... Does anyone else have one of these? $50 sounds like a very small price to pay for power output. I have the Kurt Kinetic trainer already. Someone talk me into it! Yes I have one I just used it for the first time. I still need to digest the read outs. Joe |
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![]() Evening all My first ride today. At the risk of sounding cocky, I figured 40 minutes, hell that will be easy. Well I have not been on my bike in months. I have not ran since November 5th, doctors orders. Well by the 18 minute mark, all cockyness was gone. I am trying to use a power meter on the Kurt trainer, since it's new to me I also threw on the HRM. Screwed up the splits trying to push PM buttons and HRm buttons. But this is what I got. HRM PM Average 142 AVG W 156 MAX 165 MAX W 413 AVS 15.7 MAX S 24.6 I can say this my was whipped when I got done. I did have to skip one of the 30" 95%-100% FT rides and spend the extra 30" sucking air. I also learned turn on the fan, put towel or bucket on floor to spit in, get rid of the Ipod headphones and get some speakers, I can shove my bottle of water in the floor (riding in basement) and a large clock that reads out in seconds would be better then trynig toread that little meter on the bike. Joe |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Jorge, I noticed the power program doesn't give an A or B value for the rest periods during the intervals. Can I just assume they are the same as for the HR group? Sorry - one more question. Q3 for power - I add it up to 55 minutes instead of 50 minutes. Thanks Edited by GoFaster 2008-11-19 7:42 PM |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() aquagirl - 2008-11-19 8:48 AM Jorge, I feel the need to say thanks again before I ask another question.....so thanks!! I was thinking about my heart rate on the bike and realized that all the blood lactate tests I have had done have been running on the treadmill. I was given zones for both running and biking but the biking zones were extrapolated from the LT threshold on the run. My last LT # was 168 ( in that 168 was the top end of z4) and the zones I use for running have always felt about right in that my RPE seems to match my zones. This is not the case on the bike. When cycling my heart rate never seems to get as high as the zones tell me it should!! Can the LT# be totally different on the bike and the run?? This would explain a whole lot.......Glad we are going to retest. yes LTHR on the bike will usually be lower and different than that of your run because the effort produced when biking is lesser. for that reason is VERY important to test both to get training zones accordingly |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Matchman - 2008-11-19 9:03 AM it shouldn't really cuase much different. Last time I tested my LTHR was about 182 and I never had any issues following the % for training zones JorgeM - 2008-11-19 7:54 AM Usually riding on the aero postion tends to lower your HR a bit so you might need to push a bit harder, hence remember to use RPE as your primary way to gauge effort and HR as a secondary to make sure you are in the ballpark. Interesting, I usually notice the exact opposite. My HR increases as I get down into aero. Here's a very philosophical question: does calculating zones based on % of LT decrease in effectiveness as LT HR increases? For instance, I'm one of those chipmunk heart folks who have a bike LT around 185 and, if going all out, can hit 200+. So, since a % of a bigger number is a bigger number, my low end zones are 50 - 60 beats below LT and are wicked easy. Like its nearly impossible to stay in z1 its so dang easy. Like I get into z1 just getting my shoes on... Cheers! Tom ![]() |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() zia_cyclist - 2008-11-19 11:25 AM done:Jorge, Can you post your testing protocol somewhere; maybe in your personal blog? I have continued riding all year and would like to test using your protocol. Thanks. For power meter users: 20 min test, 5 min test and how to calculate power after both tests are completed For HRM users: 30 min test an how to calcualte LTHR let me know if you have questions |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2008-11-19 7:13 PM yes both programs are the same. I will review it and fix itJorge, I noticed the power program doesn't give an A or B value for the rest periods during the intervals. Can I just assume they are the same as for the HR group? Sorry - one more question. Q3 for power - I add it up to 55 minutes instead of 50 minutes. Thanks |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() biggsmoothe - 2008-11-19 2:17 PM I will leave up the current week and the previous one.Jorge, Are you going to leave each week's workouts on your blog for a while? I'm asking b/c I can't start this week, but I'd like to do this week's workouts next week (or the week after). Thanks, |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Yay, I finally found the thread again (but too late for this week). I'll be a week behind everyone else, so I won't join any challenge, but I'm so glad to have found where it was moved to. Thanks again Jorge. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2008-11-19 10:25 PM zia_cyclist - 2008-11-19 11:25 AM done:Jorge, Can you post your testing protocol somewhere; maybe in your personal blog? I have continued riding all year and would like to test using your protocol. Thanks. For power meter users: 20 min test, 5 min test and how to calculate power after both tests are completed For HRM users: 30 min test an how to calcualte LTHR let me know if you have questions Thanks Jorge - I'll be doing these asap. I rode the Q2 interval today based on power, and I got it wrong I think, it was much easier than if I had done the HR intervals instead. I didn't know my LT and just guessed at it, but the highest my HR got during the session was low zone 2. The one question I do have. Because I'll only be doing these rides on the trainer, and there won't be any outside factors (i.e. wind), should I expect that my HR would be somewhat lower in comparison to riding outside for the same power output - or should it matter? This is what my ride looked like this morning (no HR data, but it was low). (Week 1 Q2.jpg) Attachments ---------------- Week 1 Q2.jpg (63KB - 13 downloads) |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2008-11-19 10:25 PM zia_cyclist - 2008-11-19 11:25 AM done:Jorge, Can you post your testing protocol somewhere; maybe in your personal blog? I have continued riding all year and would like to test using your protocol. Thanks. For power meter users: 20 min test, 5 min test and how to calculate power after both tests are completed For HRM users: 30 min test an how to calcualte LTHR let me know if you have questions Question - how much time (hours, days) should we have in between the 20min and 5min tests? Thanks again Jorge |
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![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2008-11-19 8:25 PM zia_cyclist - 2008-11-19 11:25 AM done:Jorge, Can you post your testing protocol somewhere; maybe in your personal blog?ย I have continued riding all year and would like to test using your protocol.ย Thanks. For power meter users: 20 min test, 5 min testย and how to calculate power after both tests are completed For HRM users: 30 min test an how to calcualte LTHR let me know if you have questions Jorge: You're going to be scheduling these tests in week #3, right? How much focus should we put on getting our best effort in the tests? To really push on the tests, should we be planning an easier week, or recovery week, in the other sports or just train through? I'm considering trying to build a little extra volume overall through the rest of this week and the next, and then backing off a bit during the first part of the testing week. Am I over-thinking this? Any thoughts or suggestions? |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2008-11-20 7:40 AM It depends because so many other things affect HR, indoors it actually might be higher if you don't have a fan or something to cool you down (effect you get when riding outside). Still sionce you are training by power *I* would just focus on watts and RPE and ignore HR.The one question I do have. Because I'll only be doing these rides on the trainer, and there won't be any outside factors (i.e. wind), should I expect that my HR would be somewhat lower in comparison to riding outside for the same power output - or should it matter? This is what my ride looked like this morning (no HR data, but it was low). |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() GoFaster - 2008-11-20 7:50 AM at least 48 hrs so you can do one on Tue and the other on Thurs for instanceJorgeM - 2008-11-19 10:25 PM zia_cyclist - 2008-11-19 11:25 AM done:Jorge, Can you post your testing protocol somewhere; maybe in your personal blog? I have continued riding all year and would like to test using your protocol. Thanks. For power meter users: 20 min test, 5 min test and how to calculate power after both tests are completed For HRM users: 30 min test an how to calcualte LTHR let me know if you have questions Question - how much time (hours, days) should we have in between the 20min and 5min tests? Thanks again Jorge |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Micawber - 2008-11-20 11:30 AM [ Jorge: You're going to be scheduling these tests in week #3, right? How much focus should we put on getting our best effort in the tests? To really push on the tests, should we be planning an easier week, or recovery week, in the other sports or just train through? I'm considering trying to build a little extra volume overall through the rest of this week and the next, and then backing off a bit during the first part of the testing week. Am I over-thinking this? Any thoughts or suggestions? Correct they will be on week 3 of the plan. Any time you test you want to be able to push as hard as you can so when use those to estimate your functional threshold (60 min power all out) you have the best possible numbers reflecting your current fitness level. Given that this is a generic plan it of course doesn’t consider the other 2 sports (swim/run) thus there is where you want to manage your plan a bit so you can accommodate the testing while you also train the other sports. So yes, a few days before each test you can do normal training but keep load low (easy and short sessions) when swimming/running so the day you test you are relatively rested and ready to give you best effort. The best power output you can generate the better the training zones will work, hence when you train thereafter you will know you are pushing yourself enough to further improve. If the day of the test you were tired and the numbers are low, your zones might not reflect you current fitness level and thus you might under train. |
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() fwiw, I learned how to program my garmin today for Q2 and it was so much nicer focusing on cadence or speed during the sprint intervals rather than staring at the seconds slowly tick by, and I could watch tv during the recovery intervals and wu and cd. It beeped at me a lot about my hr being too high or too low, but I tuned it out and tried to focus on RPE. Definitely worth the time to set it up. Thanks so much Jorge! I can already see a difference in my speed on the trainer. |
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Champion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() i just finished Q2. i think i broke my butt; clearly i need to ride more. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2008-11-19 8:25 PM zia_cyclist - 2008-11-19 11:25 AM done:Jorge, Can you post your testing protocol somewhere; maybe in your personal blog? I have continued riding all year and would like to test using your protocol. Thanks. For power meter users: 20 min test, 5 min test and how to calculate power after both tests are completed For HRM users: 30 min test an how to calcualte LTHR let me know if you have questions
No questions, but ugh, this sounds miserable. (I know, I know someone say it: "HTFU" |
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Regular ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Well, I did Q2 today, i think I felt better and it was a little easier for me than Q1. Either way I'm just using my perceived exertion to follow the workout. I think I'm a having a little more fun just winging the work out zones, but still following the trend of the workout.
Andy, |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() daisy2908 - 2008-11-20 8:53 PM HTFU! hee JorgeM - 2008-11-19 8:25 PM zia_cyclist - 2008-11-19 11:25 AM done:Jorge, Can you post your testing protocol somewhere; maybe in your personal blog? I have continued riding all year and would like to test using your protocol. Thanks. For power meter users: 20 min test, 5 min test and how to calculate power after both tests are completed For HRM users: 30 min test an how to calcualte LTHR let me know if you have questions
No questions, but ugh, this sounds miserable. (I know, I know someone say it: "HTFU" ![]() |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Did Q2 last night. I messed up on setting my watch so my interval recoveries were 30 seconds instead of 1 minute, but I made it through! I did the workout using RPE. I think I will like using RPE, and since my HRM is just about dead, I may just buy a Timex watch and set my intervals on that. Just not 100% sure I want to leave HR yet. I have used it for so many years, but I do see the lag effect when doing the intervals. RPE is pretty much instant and I imagine Power would be instant. If I save money now on the HRM, maybe I can buy a power meter when I start training for IM in 2010. I am just so wired with HR, HR on the bike computer, cadence, Ipods for running, etc. Is it all necessary?! |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I did my Q2 session and legs felt a tad better but I am still very much out of shape. Since I don’t know yet what my power zones are with my current fitness I've been doing the sessions by RPE and using the power meter to give me an idea of where I am. Early in the year I was around 260-265 watts FTP but now it is probably 15-20 watts lower. Anyway some random thoughts I had while riding that I want to share: · It is a good idea to use an old used tired on the trainer, that way you won’t be wasting your nice tires. Enjoy! |
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Coach ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Gregkl - 2008-11-21 8:55 AM I wouldn’t give up on HR training entirely, yes when doing z4/z5 intervals it is tricky to use one due to the HR lag but as yo do more intervals or they get longer it catches up. For z1-z3 sessions it is a good way to gauge effort. If you already have the HR use it and at the same time learn to develop your RPE. Both will help you become a better athlete Did Q2 last night. I messed up on setting my watch so my interval recoveries were 30 seconds instead of 1 minute, but I made it through! I did the workout using RPE. I think I will like using RPE, and since my HRM is just about dead, I may just buy a Timex watch and set my intervals on that. Just not 100% sure I want to leave HR yet. I have used it for so many years, but I do see the lag effect when doing the intervals. RPE is pretty much instant and I imagine Power would be instant. If I save money now on the HRM, maybe I can buy a power meter when I start training for IM in 2010. I am just so wired with HR, HR on the bike computer, cadence, Ipods for running, etc. Is it all necessary?! ![]()
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Elite ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() well I finished wo3 with avg hr 147 and max 161. My knees are still sore...I think I should take my bike in to get the seat adjusted? Also want to look into a training tire. |
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![]() | ![]() JorgeM - 2008-11-21 8:37 AM ... Can we start whining yet? ![]() Seriously though: Maybe I should wait to see what the testing says but I may not have guessed my FTP high enough. I thought I was being pretty ambitious at 250. The workouts feel hard enough (or I'm being a wimp) but my HR is not getting up close to what I expected. I'm using a computrainer, calibrating it every session, and programming the workouts in as erg files so I should be pushing the right wattages. I got my run LTHR from field testing and it was confirmed in a lab test this past spring so it should be pretty close. My max HR during the Q2 workout was still 30 bpm below run LTHR and the average was another 15 bpm below that. Does it make sense that my biking threshold HR could be that much lower or should I try basing the next workouts on a higher FTP? |
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