Fred D and Jason's (Tri808) Half Ironman Mentor Group CLOSED! (Page 12)

I always run faster after biking.  If it were logistically easy, I think a nice 20 minute spin with a few short/hard efforts in there would be a great way to warm up for running.  But instead I just use the first 2 miles of running to warm up since my training runs aren't actually a race.  Those are usually the hardest miles mentally since your pace is a bit slower, and certain things just don't feel loose.  This is also why it's a good idea to warm up well before a running race.  I used to laugh at the guys who were running a few miles before a half marathon thinking they were wasting their energy.  Now I get it.

I have always been meaning to experiment with a swim/bike brick.  I absolutely believe that the effort we can hold after swimming can vary greatly based on swim fitness and pacing.  Logistics is the toughest part of this, and for most of my tri career I have taken the "just swim easy" approach and start racing when I get on the bike.  Now that my swimming is a little better, and my overall goals don't allow me to cruise the swim as much, I do need to start experimenting with more swim/bike bricks.

For me personally, I like doing bricks. I don't know if there is a big physical performance gain but I feel so much better mentally when I head out on the run knowing that my body should feel this way and that I'm right where I need to be because I've felt it before in training. The other thing bricks have helped me with is pacing. Since doing lots more bricks I've learned how to pace myself better so I don't blow up halfway through the run.

Since I practice the nutrition I plan to use on race day it made sense to me to practice the "feel" of what the run is going to be like after the bike. I also plan to do some swim to bike bricks this summer so I know what works on hydration and gels and how my legs will feel after the swim.

Just my $.02

Steve

My coach has us doing a brick nearly every single weekend (probably 3 out of 4 weeks a month). The runs are never long - just 15-30 minutes. My knees always feel wonky when I run after biking, but I find bricks helpful bc repetition helps me predict - almost to the minute - when that feeling will go away. Bricks also help me practice good form in my run after biking. Back straight, shoulders back, quick turnover and keeping my arms close (when I'm tired I run like a wacky inflatable tube man) to my torso.

Next week my training plan calls for a 4x (20' bike, 10' run). I did this workout last year too and I was pretty out of it by the 4th repeat. Ran with my helmet on :\

The plan I'm doing calls for a brick once a week - a hard 45-50' bike ride followed by a 15'-20' run.  

I read on a thread that there is no point to doing a brick run if you are just doing the Ironman shuffle so I tend to push the pace and focus on form but I haven't really noticed anything aside from feeling as though I'm doing two good strong workouts.

Where I noticed it most was after my long ride this past weekend.  Man - talk about race simulation!  My run was brutal - hot, intense sun and my legs felt horrible.  Flashbacks to my last HIM run and so I think I will do more of them after my long rides so that I can mentally get used to that feeling and know how to focus on form, not worry about pace, and ease in to the run with the hope that practice will make it easier.

Safety first. 

I think bricks are, as people have posted here, all about understanding the feel of it rather than gaining specific fitness.  They can also help with pacing, but I see that as a kind of feel for the race overall.  Very useful for those things, but perhaps that why you see people doing fewer of them as they gain experience.

Myself, I kinda like them for the fun of it.  I'm still newly enough back to tri (and new enough in tri in general) that they're just fun - OK, super-tri-dorky-fun, but fun nonetheless.

That said, I don't overdo them wrt frequency, as too much fun tends to get me in trouble (in so many ways).

Aside: I just started Friel's "Your Best Triathlon" Oly plan this week (to be judiciously modified, I expect), and I think he has a few in there (haven't read the whole plan yet).  Kind of a lot of volume, if you do all the optional workouts (and who can resist??), so with other life-priorities this might turn into a "Your Really Good Triathlon" training plan.  We'll see!

Matt

There can be a lot of factors that play into a tough brick run, but one thing you may want to consider is easing off the effort on the bike a little to see what happens.  It takes quite a bit of bike fitness to push for 56 miles and still be able to run well.  Most people would be better off biking a lot easier than they want to for a HIM.

Fred, you made your point very well, and I completely agree. My HIM PR (not very fast, but still my best) was when I consciously held back just a little bit on the bike. It was definitely the best I have ever executed a race. I felt great on the run with no walking, not even through the aid stations. I remember getting to mile 9 or 10, realizing how good I felt, what a great race I was having, and I ended up smiling most of the rest of the race.

As far as my favorite workout goes, it's hard to say. I always enjoy running, but even more so in weather that some might think isn't great. I love to run in the rain, snow, and even those couple of days a year when the temp goes below zero. I would say my favorite would be running in the snow before sunrise. My least favorite would be swim training. I like the swimming itself, but I just don't like going to the Y, and all the preparation once I'm there. If I could train in OW, that would be ideal.

Hey...I used to make some of those excuses myself at one time!!!

But it is very true.  Triathlon is one race that we generally train as 3 individual sports.  Nothing wrong with that since there is a lot of value to single sport training focus.  The key is putting things together on race day.

With long course racing, you really have to take a hard look at yourself in the mirror and be honest with yourself.  Not only about your training, but the weather as well.  A lot of times we try to race the race we want to have instead of racing the race we know we are capable of given the conditions or the hand we are dealt.  You might be able to get away with that a bit in a sprint or Oly, but you'll get a face full of humble pie if you are not real with yourself during long course.

The key to really dialing it in at long course is experience...in both racing and training.  I'm only attempting my 3rd HIM, but I've got a half a dozen or so other races in the 4-5 hour range to build off of and I still don't have all the answers.

I do know however that some of my best races in longer course is when I went in with lesser expectations and paced myself conservatively early on.  You rarely hear anyone in a HIM or IM say that they wished they biked or swam harder because they had too much energy when they finished the run.  Of course naturally as I tried longer events for the second time, I tried to push a little harder, and sometimes went a little overboard.  Upon reflection, it made sense why a given pace was too hard for me, but sometimes you have to give it a try to see for yourself.  That's part of the learning experience.

But I had a good bike split.

Rudy...Rudy...Rudy...HAHAHA

ETA: My bike mechanic never understands why I do tris or runs instead of just bike race.  I told him he should do an Oly with me.  The swim is close enough to shore where he can touch the bottom, then he can just hammer the bike as hard as he can.  When he gets to T2, have a blank piece of paper pinned to his race belt so he can write down his bike split, face it backwards, and just walk the run.  LOL.

I mean I completely agree going into my LBS and somehow trying out the saddle before I bought it would probably have been the smart thing to do...but that ship has sailed.  The saddle was ordered two days ago.  Under the circumstances my logic was a) I would not go into my LBS and ask them for help on buying a saddle and already going in thinking I was not going to purchase the saddle from them, b) my finances are such that I cannot afford to both purchase a saddle and pay for a fitting at my LBS and c) I definitely need the fitting with our without the new saddle, and d) even if I'm wrong on the Adamo it's a free mistake anyways, I'm playing on house money because the wetsuit I'm selling was free to me - if I'm wrong I can sell the saddle and try again next year.

Not saying this was necessarily the smartest path, just that it was the path I followed.