September Running Challenge! (Page 12)

Yikes.  That sounds brutal.

I've got an 8 mile easy run this afternoon.  Purpose: mid-week endurance building.

No kidding! I don't think I have run at 5K pace for anything longer than ... I dunno? 800s? That sh*t cray.

Hold the phone...say more about this.  When training you don't run at 5K pace for more than 800s?

I'm getting the distinct feeling that I'm doing this wrong... very wrong.

I'm going off of what I have read recently but when doing VO2max training, ideally you want to spend as much time at VO2max to get the full benefit.  That is why intervals are recommended to be at about 5 minutes because it takes a couple minutes to get there.  Worked out about right for me the other day.  After one lap at about 1:45, I hit VO2max and then sustained VO2max for another 600 yards.

If you are running 800's, then you are not spending nearly as much time stressing max VO2 unless you are shortening recovery time or running at something faster than 5k pace.

One mile intervals for this at 5k pace is brutal.  I did 4 x 1000m and was just about puking after the third one.

Yeah, essentially you have it there Steve. And yes, when I do 800s, it's just below 5K pace and the recovery is limited. Right in line with what you are saying. 

5K pace for mile repeats is actually counter-productive. Which I know ... it's a little counter-intuitive I guess too.

Which is whyyyy we would all love you guys to join us in the JD book club! 

*And I am really excited because once you all read it, you can teach me stuff. I can be really dense. 

I've done mile repeats in a workout before, as Jack Daniels is an advocate of them, but he prescribes him with 4 min. jogs in between.

For mile repeats, having a mile in between them seems like it would be too much rest.
 

Depending on your goal, I disagree with this.

well ok, yeah you are right because we are not defining parameters such as if there is a recovery period, and for how long, how many reps etc. 

But I believe he said his goal was v02 max

Running too fast for a rep is going to rely more on the anaerobic system. Additionally, you want to spend as much time at v02 max and aren't able to do so if you can only do, say 3 miles vs like 8 x 800 or something 

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but that is how I understand it. 

True, but is 5k for a mile pushing anaerobic?  Surely not, or you couldn't sustain that pace for a 5k.  When I did the Jack Daniels plan when I was improving my 10k, he had a couple of X 800's workouts, but he had way more mile repeats in his plan.

Maybe we should (as they say at my work) "take this offline" and wait until the Daniels' Running Formula thread gets jumping.

That was smart, me thinks. It's a fine line pushing vs. risking injury. 

1 mile WU, 5 miles @ tempo (effort not pace per mile), ~1 CD

Purpose was to increase vo2 and ride that wave. I"m going by effort rather than pace for my tempo and intervals. Also had a the purpose of trying out new shoes. They seemed okay.

Originally posted by EV3110 Clearly I am not an everyday post-er. Ok so yesterday I ran hill repeats. Never ran repeats before : 7x at .13 distance. Yes short but steep. Then continued on for an easy 2.5. Question- Does distance matter for repeats? Is longer better? Can understand that the longer you're able to go the stronger you are. So tell me what I need to know about hill repeats. :D

It has been a long time since I've done hill repeats but they were a staple when I was running track and XC.  Hill repeats are all about developing strength and speed.  Thus they should not be so long that you are running out of gas half way up or are needing to slow your pace to finish your set.  What we did was near all out sprints of maybe 100 yards or so.  I would probably err on the side of less distance on these because you are working on speed not endurance.  As far as developing strength, if you are needing to slow down to go farther you lose a little efficiency of the workout.  Kind of like doing 50 curls with a 10 lb weight vs. 10 reps with a 25 lb weight.  You are driving hard with your upper body and driving knees up.  We were always taught to crest strong over the hill.

Today: AM 5.5 miles verrrrrrrry easy, just keeping nice and relaxed

Mid-day: 2.5 also very easy. This run is more of a functional one as there is a concert at lunch that I am going to

Purpose: Both runs are really, really easy since I have a race tomorrow (My first cross country race EVER!!!!!) I will do strides at the very end of my second run.

Good luck with your race tomorrow.  I loved running XC when I was younger.

No run, today is a swim day.  15k race tomorrow.

Thanks, I am really looking forward to it!

Good luck at yours!!!!

Good luck tomorrow!! Have fun.