SWBKRUN Mentor Group-"Off Season?" What is that?!! (Page 126)

yeah, something like that

What do you think about the 8 mile run 2 days before the marathon, Suzy?

who me?

Thanks, Suzy.  You're right.  It's an attitude.  I'm attacking the swimming.  Some times I'm horribly disappointed - others I'm ecstatic. 

If I could get to where I avoid the occasional mouth full of water I would be in great shape.  I get lazy and stop rotating so I don't clear the water to breathe - I hack on some water and hit the side stroke until I get my breath back.

So I have a new mantra starting right now...

BRING ON THE SWIMMING!!!

I'd like to go right now since reading your post, Suzy.  But today is out - 3 kids, 4 sports camps, and two games.

Rob:

I have no nutrition advise, but THANK YOU for using "nauseated" instead of "nausious!" It is one of my pet peeves, along with "very unique."

I used Roctane Gus and regular Gus, Cytomax drink and water.  Oh, and I ate some fruit chews on the bike b/c I was starving for "real food."  From what I've been reading your body handles solid food and a full stomach better on the bike than the run.  Also, switch to liquid nutrition at least 30 minutes before the run - as a starting place for nutrition training and see how it goes.  Active.com had some good articles on nutrition this past month (of which I am borrowing a lot of this advise).  I found I can't stomach the sweeter varieties in the summer like I can in the winter.  Chocolate GUs are great in the winter but too thick for the heat.  Don't like Cliff bars at all - too heavy.   See what will be available at the aide stations and practice with those. You already paid for them so you might as well "Eat off the road" as Linda says.    Also, I found the frequency of nutrition changed from bike to run.  More frequent on the run for me.  I've seen people start the run on HIM with bananas and apples in their hands.   Did your stomach crave solid food or was it too much sweet? Have you ever run while chewing gum?  That has helped settle my stomach at times?  Wintergreen or spearmint type flavors help refresh my mouth, get the saliva going, and allow the water to work.

I use Infinit. I was pretty tired of it by the time I got to the run portion of the HIM though, so I switched to coke and broth from the aid stations. I also eat some type of bar (Clif, fruit and nut, etc) during the bike as I just crave a little solid food.

Hi there... I'll take a shot at this one...

The first question that pops into my mind is if you were under- or over-caloried. While taking in the proper amount of calories on the bike is relatively easy, as compared to the run, it's also possible that you may have overfueled. I try to take in my last nutrition about 12-14 minutes before T2 so I'm not continuing to absorb liquids (I use Infinit) or gels (Roctane) as I switch disciplines. Your body is going to shunt blood flow toward your underutilized muscles (quads -> hammies) so you can run, and it's better to maximize gastric emptying prior to that transition. If I'm undercaloried, I feel weak and light-headed; if I'm overcaloried, I feel "sloshy" and bloated. Either way, I feel nauseated and it can take a while for me to get back into balance. If I were you, I'd play with not only the number of calories but also your timing, especially as you get off the bike.

The second question is starting to get into an ongoing debate: mixing types of fuel sources, namely simple sugars and high fructose corn syrup vs. complex sugars/carbohydrates. Hammer Nutrition claims that mixing its products with a HFCS sports drink like Gatorade, for example, can lead to tummy issues. Of course, this may be self-serving, since all Hammer products "play nice" together and only contain maltodextrin as the carbohydrate source. Gu has maltodextrin as the first ingredient, but also has fructose listed. Plain Gatorade has HFCS while Gatorade Endurance does not (a key point should anyone decide to do Ironman Canada, where Gatorade Endurance is not served on course, unlike just about every other 70.3 and Ironman in North America... those wacky Canucks). Personally, I can usually mix Gus, Gatorade, and Coke without adverse effects. There are also several studies that show that mixing sugars actually aids in absorption. Anyway, all this is to say that you may be one of those people who experience gastric distress by mixing different types of sugars.

If that is indeed the case, I'd recommend sticking to one fuel source: either something like the entire line of Hammer products or Carbo-Pro (essentially pure, unflavored maltodextrin), or going with the Gu and water.

The last point would be to make sure that you're watching your electrolyte balance and fluid intake. Part of this would also be calculating your sweat rate:

http://www.trihardermultisports.com/THM_SwRate.aspx

and thus determining your fluid loss. Make sure that you're staying within good levels of hydration (too much can be as detrimental as too little). Watch your electrolytes too... I use Thermolytes, especially when it gets hot out. Imbalances become very obvious when you come back from a hard workout and your skin is salty. If you're using fluid calories, it's difficult to remember that you may need to take in plain water from time to time.

Hope that helps!

You got that right!   Thanks for the great info!

My swimming coach in Madison told me you can still breathe when you take in water so suck it up and keep moving.  He was right.  The thought of a cup of lake water over the course of an hour is kinda gross, but it hasn't killed me.

KEEP MOVING!  DOING FREESTYLE!

70.3 - Infinit only on the bike worked great for me.  Gels and gatorade on the run.  Had no stomach issues or nutrition problems on a tough course.  Now slow leg problems, those I had.  Chet

LOL... loud and clear. I thought the same thing. Thanks for confirming it for me Not sure what the thinking would be behind putting that in the plan.

Really helpful info.  Do you think it is possible to get your electrolytes solely from Thermoloytes or Success tabs?  I am a big fan of Carb Pro, but it is missing the electrolytes.  

I am totally in the experiment phase for my September HIM.  Thinking that I might be able to do some things on the bike that do not work for me during marathons (e.g. gels or blocks).  Personally, I cannot imagine solid food, but maybe that should be added to the experiment.

Long rides do not seem to be a good enough test.  Don't you feel you need to run afterwards to truly see if the plan works? e.g. longer bricks or no?

ironically i just read this article yesterday on nutrition.  


nutrition

Yeah, but what is your co-pay?

Hey, are you saying something about my quality post to total post ratio????

Hey Everyone.  Sorry I have been alittle MIA lately, just in the process of moving into a new house and wow is it a lot of work!
Great job everyone who raced last weekend! Looks like you all had some pretty fantastic results!

Ok--- 1st off I just want you all to know that I told Ryan to write all that stuff... Word for word!   

Nutrition is a tough conversation.  Everyone handles things differently.  I prefer to eat Mexican food 1hr before going out and doing speed work w/ Ryan.  It always seems to solve my gut problems... I do this so it gives me gas to propel me further when trying to keep up with him (either that or I try and knock him out with the smell).

Everyone has their likes and dislikes, but I think what it really boils down to is timing.  You can't overload right before you are going to run, you also can't neglect it, etc....  If it taste good, and you are not getting sick... STICK with it, and dial in your timing.  Can you run w/ solid foods in your gut--- Not likely (remember when you were a kid and you got a sideache???).  Kim said it right... dial it back off the bike to a Gu (or whatever you take) and water.  Let it settle in and absorb (Ryan correct me if I am wrong, but it takes 15-20 minutes to absorb into your system on GU) before you get off the bike.

Suzy- Yes Thermorlytes will do well, but you may find it doesn't have the sugar fix one might be craving/needing (like the gatorades-- I know you don't like), but Roctane's, and others have caffiene to help with that.

I think bricks are an excellent way to find out about your nutrition, but I don't think they need to be long.  You should know within 15-20 minutes how things are going.  I wouldn't stretch it out much further than 30 minutes, but that's me... I'm lazy.

Roni- It's funny when I am missing a few pages, I start taking notes on a piece of paper, and I wrote next to your name ABSOLUTELY NOT!! Then I read Suzy's post.... Take it easy.  You are still coming off Boise, and while you may feel better, your muscles are still recovering!

Trevor- Great move!  Another 1/2 Mary (or 2) is perfect!  Extend your bike rides on the weekend as well.  By the end of the summer put out a couple 50-70 mile rides, and get your confidence up for the off season!  You made the smart decision.

Rob-- That is complete and utter crap (that goes for you too Suzy).... I never FORCE anybody to do anything they don't want to do, or are not capable of (don't ask Ryan about Adventure Racing).  I merely made suggestions on why I think you SHOULD or should not do things.  We are all adults here !

As far as me being a "mentor?"  I am just a name in front of the subject line.  You guys drive the conversations and had way more input than I do.  I am learning more from all you.  I thank you all!


Most importantly, and I can't say it enough..... the 4th discipline in triathlon is the MENTAL aspect of the sport.  BE TOUGH!!! BE STRONG!!! BE CONFIDENT!!!



Edited by swbkrun 2009-06-24 7:01 PM

Thanks everyone for the inspires.  I think I just really haven't been getting enough sleep.  Made sure the last few days that I paid attention to getting enough sleep and feel great today.

LOL, now I have to get a couple good training sessions in between now and my race on Sunday but playing Golf with my Brother and my son on Friday, I volunteered at a road race on Saturday and then I race on Sunday.

Up until now I didn't have any goals for this weekend but just thought of some.

1. start swim right in the middle of the pack
2. Don't be a spaz in T1
2. Ride a smart race, don't ride it like I am riding a TT, it's cool to avg 23mph but if that takes all of your energy, doesn't work well for a tri
3. run a mental free 8k.  No phantom sticks, numb feet, phantom blisters, etc that have plagued me in anything more than a sprint
4. pay better attention to my nutrition, could be part of my run issues.

No real time goals, but race a complete race.

Edited by dalessit 2009-06-24 8:22 PM