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Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread (Page 13)
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 2010-02-25 6:31 PM in reply to: #2694114 |
Member  101  Lost Wages Nevada |  Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official ThreadKido - 2010-02-25 3:55 PMBTW, I have no pretense of being fast on this course. I did a 15 hour Silverman and I'm hoping to be far more fit for this one. So I'm hoping to be closer to 14... I would be happy with that... I've done both Kido and you will love the fact that you are riding Charleston as often as you are. There is simply NO comparison, Charleston is way harder and longer then SG.....The issue for you will not be the hills, it will be the length of the course. I hope you are also doing some long rides to go with that hill climbing (I'm sure you are). Great job, keep it up!!!My training is going well...Long swim- swim 10,000 meters a week, 3 swims (2x3,000 and a 4,000)Long Bike-100 (doing about 120-150 miles a week)Long Run- Ran 2 marathons in Jan. (would not recommend this) The real test will be when I ride the course next month and check my bike splits. I can average 13.5 on the Charleston climb and descent (up is 6 mph - down is closer to 35-40!) and I think it has to be tougher than the IM course... Edited by VegasJason 2010-02-25 6:32 PM |
| 2010-02-26 9:38 AM in reply to: #2693611 |
Extreme Veteran 492 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread VegasJason - 2010-02-25 2:19 PM gcirongirl - 2010-02-25 11:27 AMMy training is going well. I am back on track, FINALLY, after a tendonitis injury in my ankle. I am being very cautious with it. I would rather show up for the race a little undertrained than totally injured.I am starting to get nervous about the cutoffs for the bike. I am slow. I did the loop between Christmas and New Years and averaged about 13mph. I will need to do 13.5mph in order to make the cutoffs. I am better trained now and so I assume a little faster. I think that I can do it, but it will be close. Anybody have any sneaky tips to getting through transitions and aid stations as quickly as possible? If your really worried about bike time, my 2 cents would be to get comfortable going downhill fast. There is plenty of it on this course which means that there is a lot of "free" time out there for you to take....Also remember you are in the middle of some pretty heavy training volume right now. You will NOT feel as good on your long training days as you will on race day. Come race day you will have done the long training and you will be properly tapered which means your legs will actually feel fresher than they do now. Stick to your training, it's supposed to be tough right now, and you will be fine come race day. |
| 2010-02-26 9:48 AM in reply to: #2223820 |
Extreme Veteran 492 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Training has been pretty good for the most part. I've had 3 100 mile rides already and several 80 milers with an 80/6 brick this weekend and then my first of three 120 mile rides next week. Swim is in good shape. I feel good about my run only because I've put in way more miles the last year than I ever have. My only concern is I'm currently not putting in enough run miles (32-40 per week) just because I have to be careful not to re-aggrevate my injury. The other aspect that excites me is I have completely changed my nutrition plan for this IM and it has made a HUGE difference in how I feel on the bike and coming off the bike onto the run. Hard to believe we're only 9 weeks away. 6 weeks till taper. Is it to early for time predictions?  |
| 2010-02-26 11:47 AM in reply to: #2223820 |
Extreme Veteran 315 South Jordan UT | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Thanks for the encouragement. I am absolutely fearless on the down hill. It's my time to fly! So, you say that you have changed your nutrition plan. . . What are you doing? I have mine working, but I love to hear others. I did my first half iron on oatmeal cookies and orange gatorade. Had one of the best runs of my life. I did my firsts iron taking a gel every 20 minutes. Got tired of the gels by the 2nd half of the bike and practically bonked in transition. This time I have been playing with still fueling every 20 minutes, but alternating a gu, a clif blok and a piece of an oatmeal cookie. I just REALLY like oatmeal cookies and if I will eat it. . . it is better than not eating my gels. |
| 2010-02-26 3:15 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Member 93 Cedar Park | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Speeking of nutrition I will be using my plan for the fist time this Saturday (it is to expensive for me to use it every weekend) so I am hoping everything works out. Here is mine for the bike only (hope it makes since): |
| 2010-02-26 3:27 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Regular 100 Allen, TX ( Basically North of Dallas) | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Seems like a lot of calories per hour. I have typically been told to keep it around 350-450/hour for Ironman. Not sure if what I was told is correct but it worked well at my last IM. Let me know how it goes. I am always curious about race day nutrition. Eddy |
| 2010-02-26 3:43 PM in reply to: #2696004 |
Champion 5781  Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Tsunami (Eddy) - 2010-02-26 1:27 PM Seems like a lot of calories per hour. I have typically been told to keep it around 350-450/hour for Ironman. Not sure if what I was told is correct but it worked well at my last IM. Let me know how it goes. I am always curious about race day nutrition. Eddy Yup, I averaged a bit over 350 cals/hr at Vineman and it worked fine for me. I was taking in 200 cal's every 50 min. from either gels or blocks and 25 cal's every 25 min. from sports drink. That worked out to a regular intake of 305/hour and I had some additional calories from an energy bar at the halfway point and a couple mini-Clif Bars I picked up at a late aid station that took the overall average for the ride to roughly 370 cals/hour. Edited by tcovert 2010-02-26 3:44 PM |
| 2010-02-26 3:54 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Member 93 Cedar Park | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread I agree. Up untill about 2 months ago I was using 450/hour. But my general doctor's wife is a sports nutritionist and both are multiple Ironman finishers and she gave me this formula to use when calculating my Caloric needs for the ironman bike leg w/ an avg or 17-18 mph. This is only to be used after 90-120 minutes of exercise. Do not use this for just a bike ride. So it works perfect for the Ironman Bike leg. 0.0740 x total body weight x 60 + (22 for every 100 feet of climbed during cycling) x 0.3 to determine minimum hourly calorie replacement demands or by 0.5 to determine maximum hourly calorie replacement demandsSo mine comes out to be 590 minumum and 995 max. Over several rides I have found 700-750 to be prefect. This will be my first ride getting all those calories primarly from fluid not solids.Edited by Sully_Joe 2010-02-26 3:55 PM |
| 2010-02-26 4:31 PM in reply to: #2696065 |
Member 101 Lost Wages Nevada | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Sully_Joe - 2010-02-26 1:54 PM I agree. Up untill about 2 months ago I was using 450/hour. But my general doctor's wife is a sports nutritionist and both are multiple Ironman finishers and she gave me this formula to use when calculating my Caloric needs for the ironman bike leg w/ an avg or 17-18 mph. This is only to be used after 90-120 minutes of exercise. Do not use this for just a bike ride. So it works perfect for the Ironman Bike leg. 0.0740 x total body weight x 60 + (22 for every 100 feet of climbed during cycling) x 0.3 to determine minimum hourly calorie replacement demands or by 0.5 to determine maximum hourly calorie replacement demandsSo mine comes out to be 590 minumum and 995 max. Over several rides I have found 700-750 to be prefect. This will be my first ride getting all those calories primarly from fluid not solids. [/QUOTE |
| 2010-02-26 6:32 PM in reply to: #2696134 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread VegasJason - 2010-02-26 2:31 PM Sully_Joe - 2010-02-26 1:54 PM I agree. Up untill about 2 months ago I was using 450/hour. But my general doctor's wife is a sports nutritionist and both are multiple Ironman finishers and she gave me this formula to use when calculating my Caloric needs for the ironman bike leg w/ an avg or 17-18 mph. This is only to be used after 90-120 minutes of exercise. Do not use this for just a bike ride. So it works perfect for the Ironman Bike leg. 0.0740 x total body weight x 60 + (22 for every 100 feet of climbed during cycling) x 0.3 to determine minimum hourly calorie replacement demands or by 0.5 to determine maximum hourly calorie replacement demandsSo mine comes out to be 590 minumum and 995 max. Over several rides I have found 700-750 to be prefect. This will be my first ride getting all those calories primarly from fluid not solids. .074x200x60=888 22x20=440 440+888=1328 1328x.3=398.4 1328x.5=664 So if I read this right a guy weighing 200lbs should be 398.4-664??? Your either a very big man or the equation is off???????? whats the overall elevation climb, 2000'?? Regardless of the answer, THANKS for the info I love when things can be broken down to math The climb is actually over 4000' (supposedly 2000' per loop). Assuming I'm back-engineering the formula correctly...looks like .074 cal/lb/min x weight x 60 min/hour, adjusted by climbing effort, with .30 min/.50 max replacement rate. That 30% min. replacement rate is what I've always worked with and usually seen recommended as a general "rule of thumb", so this isn't a bad formula...at least on a flat course. For me on a flat course, it yields a range of 224-372 cals/hour...I start out for IM at 305/hour and adjust from there. So far, so good. However, I'm not sure I understand the basis for the climbing cal burn adjustment, if I'm reading it correctly...I don't think you can apply a factor for the total climbing during the ride to each and every hour of effort. There would be a total additional burn for the whole ride and you'd need to apply that in increments to each hour, I believe. If you are adjusting by a factor of 22 for each 100' of climbing for the ride, then the resulting figure probably needs to be divided by anticipated hours of riding (say 6.5 in my case) and that figure added to arrive at an hourly target cal replacement range. Unless of course I'm misunderstanding the climbing adjustment in the formula. If I accept the formula at face value, with 4000' of climbing, I get a range of 488-813. If I divide the "880" I get for the climbing value ((4000/100)x22) by 6.5 (hours of riding), the range becomes 264-441. Not sure the latter isn't correct, but, again, I may be misunderstanding how the formula was set up. Edited by tcovert 2010-02-26 6:32 PM |
| 2010-02-26 10:31 PM in reply to: #2696284 |
Member 93 Cedar Park | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread I agree with what you are saying. Using that formula at face value you are distributing the extra calories burned from climbing over every hour. So using your adjustments this is what I get: .074 x 250 x 60 + (((4000/100)x 22)/7) x .3 = 370 min/hour .074 x 250 x 60 + (((4000/100)x 22)/7) x .5 = 617 max/hour That sounds alot better. Edited by Sully_Joe 2010-02-26 10:32 PM |
| 2010-02-26 10:33 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Master 1359 South of SLC | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread I think 750 per hour is too high. My rule is I stick to about 350 per hour and I have never had a problem to date. Any more and I start to bloat. I rode the loop twice today for 91 miles. The report is up at http://26.2ismycooldown.com/2010/02/022610-ironman-st-george-bike-c... Let me know if you have any questions guys. FWIW, I rode it on a 11-15. For race day I will be switching to an 11-27. Mike Edited by Rollin' Thunder 2010-02-26 10:33 PM |
| 2010-02-27 8:13 AM in reply to: #2223820 |
Extreme Veteran 492 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Holy moly, I know everyone's nutrition is different but I'd be puking after 2 hours if I took in 750 calories an hour. The good news is your testing it now to make sure you can handle it. I've switched to a total liquid nutirtion plan. My first IM I took Gu on the :30 and 1/2 PowerBar on the 1:00 and I'd mix in Fig Newtons when I felt hungry. The problem was I felt hungry quite often. The liquid nutrition absorbs into the body MUCH better and I can actually handle more calories. I am still playing with sodium and water intake as that will vary depending on actual race day temperature. I am feeling good about taking in 345-355 calories an hour for a total bike intake of around 1,600 calories, which is higher than my first IM. I get most of my calories from what we call IronMan Cocktails. These are a mix of CarboPro, EFS, Gatorade Endurance, S-Caps (for sodium), and PreRace for caffeine as well as a flask or two of EFS LiquidShot. I take a sip of the IM cocktail every 15 mins and wash it down with water and then I take a LiquidShot every hour. For the run I'll start on coke at the first aid station and almost every station thereafter and will take water and Gatorade Endurance as needed. I'll take a shot from my Liquid Shot flask every 30-35 minutes. BIKE NUTRITION IMC Bottle #1 (652 calories) • CarboPro: (4) scoops • EFS: (2) scoops • S-Caps: Contents of (3) Caps IMC Bottle #2 (610 calories) • CarboPro: (4) scoops • Gatorade Endurance: (3) scoops • S-Caps: Contents of (3) Caps • PreRace: (1) teaspoon LiquidShot • ~400 calories ADVERTISEMENT: I have been working with a race day nutritionist who has been working with me closeley to nail my race day nutrition. He works with several pros including Jordan Rapp who just set the course record at IMAZ. If you'd like to learn more you can check out www.personalbestnutrition.com. |
| 2010-02-27 8:17 AM in reply to: #2223820 |
Extreme Veteran 492 Austin, TX | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread .... Oh, and for post race nutrition, as many freakin Double Doubles from In N Out Burger as I want. |
| 2010-02-27 3:34 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Extreme Veteran 488 Phoenix | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread You guys are reminding me that I need to pay more attention to my nutrition on my rides. I always forget about that. These days, I've found myself addicted to chocolate chip kids Cliff bars. They're only 130 calories per bar, but I drink plenty of sports drinks too. I think it's working out for me, we'll see. They're the only thing small and convenient to eat that I actually like. And does anyone else feel a bit guilty when they take an unscheduled day off? I'm using tomorrow's duathlon as an excuse. But I feel extra guilty since I also took Thursday off, due to stupid pain pills I had to take for an injured arm. I feel so lazy!! |
| 2010-02-28 4:14 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Member 93 Cedar Park | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Just thought I would give my 2 cents on a couple things I learned from this weekend. This was the first weekend that I had the opportunity use my “race plan”. 1) Fluid nutrition on the bike is amazing. It is so much easier then carrying Gus, Cliff Bars, and other solid foods. 2) No more group rides on the weekend until after the race. I always seem to go a lot faster and at a higher heart rate then I planned on riding when I go with a group. So this weekend I decided to go at it alone and it was great. I was able to hold my own pace and keep an eye on my HR with no worries about getting dropped or going to slow. 3) Correct pacing makes a huge difference. Again since this was the first time I was able to ride at my pace the entire ride I felt great the next day. The brick run afterwards was nice and easy, and I woke up Sunday feeling fully rested. Just thought I would share….. |
| 2010-02-28 9:46 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Two months to go... Pretty epic solo ride today (well, almost all my rides are solo, so that's nothing new)...101 miles, mostly in the mountains, 4500'+ climbing. Still can't really run due to sciatica, but--thankfully--it's not bothering me on the bike or in the pool. |
| 2010-03-02 11:17 AM in reply to: #2696568 |
Extreme Veteran 549 Marietta, GA | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Rollin' Thunder - 2010-02-26 11:33 PM I think 750 per hour is too high. My rule is I stick to about 350 per hour and I have never had a problem to date. Any more and I start to bloat. I rode the loop twice today for 91 miles. The report is up at http://26.2ismycooldown.com/2010/02/022610-ironman-st-george-bike-c... Let me know if you have any questions guys. FWIW, I rode it on a 11-15. For race day I will be switching to an 11-27. Mike I just did a training camp in St George this past weekend and your report is pretty damn accurate. Nice one. Definitely worth doing the course early just to see it and be prepared mentally! |
| 2010-03-02 11:52 AM in reply to: #2696568 |
Champion 5781 Northridge, California | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Rollin' Thunder - 2010-02-26 8:33 PM I think 750 per hour is too high. My rule is I stick to about 350 per hour and I have never had a problem to date. Any more and I start to bloat. I rode the loop twice today for 91 miles. The report is up at http://26.2ismycooldown.com/2010/02/022610-ironman-st-george-bike-c... Let me know if you have any questions guys. FWIW, I rode it on a 11-15. For race day I will be switching to an 11-27. Mike Great report, Mike...thanks. After the 101 mile/4500'+ ride this weekend on a 12-23 without undue drama, I was thinking of going forward with that, but the "one mile at 12%" part of your report gives me pause. May be pulling the trigger on getting a 12-25 this week, after all. |
| 2010-03-02 12:52 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Master 1359 South of SLC | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Thanks guys -- I hate to admit it, but I am going to a 12-27. I still want to be able to run after I am done with the bike. I am thinking about going down one more time to ride the loop a couple of times in March. Is anyone else going out this month? Mike |
| 2010-03-02 1:53 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Extreme Veteran 315 South Jordan UT | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Nice report. Thanks! I have spring break March 22-26 and may head down, but I am really slow so riding with me would only frustrate you. Question: With all of the workouts getting longer on the weekends, is anyone decreasing their time spent training during the week? I have been tempted to decrease during the week a bit. Is it conserving myself for the weekend or is it cheating myself and putting myself into trouble? |
| 2010-03-02 3:11 PM in reply to: #2223820 |
Veteran 266 Kingwood, TX | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Man I wish I lived closer to St. George like all of you. You are going to be crushing us with your knowlegde of the course. My only preview will be Wednesday, April 28th; I am thinking about an easy loop on that wednesday, or I will just drive it. I appreciate all the insight on the course that has been posted here, I just hope the cattle guards are covered, I will be one of the idiots that will be probably walking accross them, the threat of a DNF and/or wheel/bike damage just plain scares me. |
| 2010-03-02 3:20 PM in reply to: #2702518 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread I like to keep it simple (for nutrition)... For the bike, my Infinit seems to work well and that's about 300-350 calories per hour... It works, so I'm not going to mess around with it... And of course all the water the course has to offer... One thing I'm going to add this time around is a candy bar (most likely a Baby Ruth) at special needs. They have tasted wonderful after about hour 3 on my long bikes this year. I also read having a stick or two of mint gum helps clean the palate during a ride. GE or Infinit can start to get old. as for the run, I may play it by ear like the first year. I pretty much alternated between broth and GE at the aid stations. Ate what sounded good at the time. |
| 2010-03-02 3:25 PM in reply to: #2702518 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread Rollin' Thunder - 2010-03-02 10:52 AM Thanks guys -- I hate to admit it, but I am going to a 12-27. I still want to be able to run after I am done with the bike. I am thinking about going down one more time to ride the loop a couple of times in March. Is anyone else going out this month? Mike I plan to go. Just not sure what weekend. I sort of have to force it since I have a lot of good riding around here. I still need to plan lodging for the race itself. I will probably be going by myself, so logistically, it's a little tougher to get around... I'm not sure of the shuttle service. I plan to park at the finish to drive home/hotel, but still need to get to the lake. |
| 2010-03-02 3:26 PM in reply to: #2702733 |
Sensei Sin City | Subject: RE: Ironman St. George - Utah : Official Thread gcirongirl - 2010-03-02 11:53 AM Nice report. Thanks! I have spring break March 22-26 and may head down, but I am really slow so riding with me would only frustrate you. Question: With all of the workouts getting longer on the weekends, is anyone decreasing their time spent training during the week? I have been tempted to decrease during the week a bit. Is it conserving myself for the weekend or is it cheating myself and putting myself into trouble? I follow a BT plan. The trend I seem to see is the the mid week workouts are about the same (or getting just a little bit longer) but the long runs and rides get longer. They make up the bulk of the increased time per week. |
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