SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 139)

Welcome Matt.  Sounds like you are really enjoying coming back into training.

That just sux... 

I agree and may be appearing to think HR is not of value, it is.

But I would set my training zones by pace, learn the equivalent HR for those zones and then use both to guide me.

Do you ever do a LTHR HR test ? Do you have any value for it ?

Hi Matt!!! I visited the Cape  a few summers ago with a friend  and our kids.

We had lots of fun. It's a great area. 

About 80 pages of this thread is people b!tching about snow.

You've seen the ST entry in the Urban Dictionary by now, haven't you?

No, he needs to know his VDOT, LTHR, CP and CdA

Welcome Matt

I'd try to spread the word among your cycling friends or maybe talk to people who work at your LBS.  Those are the people most likely to know who's looking for a road bike.

Yes, so entry number 1 is "boy there are a lot of whiners in this group."   Entry 2 is "Ok, power nerds."  Entry 3 is "hot women"

Key is to make sure it is packed well, and take photos of the bike pre packed, packed, and the bike box if you have to ship it.  My LBS charged me $30 to pack it, honestly after watching I could do it myself, but don't have the right materials lying around.

3:00PM looking out my window. No, those are not dirty windows, it's a snowstorm

I don't really do the workouts with the idea of looking for LTHR, but workout around it often enough in ways somewhat similar to the test that I can be confident it hasn't really moved. The occasional race will also help with that.

From there I tend to go the other way around as you, as in I'll tend to get an idea of the pacing for the particular HR level. I'll vary which one receives more weight from day to day, depending on what I want to do.

I wonder if the terrain we run on has an influence on our preferences? Where I'm at the size of the hills isn't that much, but I'm really not running on truly flat ground. Almost always on false flat up or down with a number of short hills thrown in that can mess with pacing. They're small enough that I can usually keep fairly steady mile splits throughout a run when I want, but within the mile I'll be all over the place. As in both + & - 45 to 60 sec/mile at several point in the same mile is perfectly normal. HR can stay very even throughout that.

Even though I tend to favor HR more, there is still value in using pace for me beyond a tool to pace until the time for HR to get up to speed. One will improve using just HR, but also using pace can help to encourage better running economy as well. Just using HR can help to push oneself hard, but having the speed part in there can help to also encourage one to better learn to utilize that output more effectively.

The simple answer - I'm curious to see if my zones have changed since  the last time I really tested.  The main reason for this, is that even though I've had a crappy winter of running injuries, I'm suprised at where my HR is in relation to pace at the moment.  I'm running faster than I "feel" I maybe should be, but at the same time HR is quite low, and the effort level is also low.  But I doubt my ability to guage RPE - doesn't matter if it's HR or watts, I just never click based on feel.  So I rely on the data in front of me. 

Because I'm coming off injury, and not sure where my pacing should put me, I decided to rely on HR instead and am keeping most runs in Z1/2.  Once I feel I have my legs back, and some volume in them, then I'll start to use pacing more.  If my running had remained consistent then I would be tracking HR and paying attention to it, but I'd rely on pace first.

I'm kind of with Marc on LTHR testing.  I really don't know what I would do with that number.  When I run, I do monitor HR, but don't specifically try to hit a certain HR like I would using power on the bike.  HR gives me some info on how I'm feeling that day, but since most of my runs are easy, it's not going to influence my running that much...except if I notice I'm having a really off day.

While racing, it's more of an FYI as well.  I'll race mostly by feel and RPE as my HR in races tends to be really high.

I think if the order of triathlons were different though, where the run was the 1st or 2nd leg, then racing by HR would be much more important for me so I don't cook myself early on.  But since it's the last leg, it's much easier to manage by pacing my effort by RPE and trying to go as fast as possible given the distance that remains ahead.

Sorry about the snow Marc/Arend. I wimped and went the treadmill route. First time I'd been on one in ages. Although I found that the new ones at the Y have an elevation setting so you can run downhill. That was tempting. 

Welcome Matt. I did the inaugural Nantucket Tri a few years ago, although it was a bit short of a full OLY then. Well run race, but hot. They used to start at noon so you could ferry over in the morning, although I think that's changed. 

FWIW, I would love Shane to comment on this....I am of the belief that LTHR does not vary much and HR zones do not vary much

The pace you can hold at LTHR does cange but LTHR does not change much. Probably less than the accuracy of the test.

I was tested 4 years ago in lab for actual lactate threshold. I was tested last year and it was identical. Pace was much quicker last year.

So I suspect that if you tesetd LTHR last year, it will be almost the same this year if you put the same effort into the run. The pace will be different most likely. That's what I believe would happen in this body.

Hence if you are going to bust a nut, go out and do a 10k

I bet you can even get an approximation of LTHR looking at your 10k run file.

Welcome to the group Matt!

I'm pretty indifferent on the HR thing.  I don't wear a HR monitor at all but only because I never learned how to use the data.  When I first started tri training, I wore it and was somewhat aware of my HR but I never did anything with the information so I gradually just stopped wearing it.  All of my run training is by pace and RPE.

If my coach wanted me to wear one and start using it, I would.

Your coach goes by pace ?

E pace, M pace, T pace, I pace and R pace are all new things I have learned about in the last 6 months.

You have a good coach....but we knew that :-)

He just needs to come visit more often

doesn't sound like we have the same coach since I don't know what those are  :^