Fred D Mentor Group Part III (Page 14)

That is why a lot of my winter gear is wind resistant, including gloves.  When it gets really cold I wear lobster gloves, which take some getting use to but much better then frozen fingers.  Lots of cycling pants out there where the front is wind resistant and the back is normal.

I'm going to sort of put your post together with Axenhots's (Arend's) to answer Neil's ...

Just in my opinion, fast swimmers either have and/or do a lot more sets than "mortals," period. There's just a lot more yardage to play with to work with the other strokes and refine technique. 2500 would constitute the main set, not the entire workout. Also, if most of your workouts are 3500-4000, I think your head would blow up if you did it all just swimming freestyle (even cut up/timed/done different ways).

I very rarely do any drills either, and to play off what Axenhots said ... drills aren't really "swimming," but are specific ways to learn better swimming. Then you go ahead and just do the better swimming. Drills should always be a means to a known end. For folks I coach or in setting up swim workouts, I'm likely to give them ONE drill, maybe two (two related/complementary ones) the point of which I'd really like the swimmer to focus on while executing the main set.

So for a 2500, depending on the level of the swimmer (let's take Neil, for the most relevant example):

WU: 100 of drill 1, 100 free, 100 of drill 1 or 2, 100 free

MS: 1400-1800 of combinations (repeats, ladders, pyramids, etc.) of 50s, 100s, 150s, at the most 200s on set time sendoffs of varying intensities, but a good bit of them at T-pace (or aiming to come in on decreasing times even if the sendoff time remains, or come in on the same time for the same distance repeats even if the sendoff time changes)

If the MS has been real hard and/or real long, then a longer cool-down. If not, and there's a few hundred left for another set, this one should be less intense, but really focus on some aspect of form because for an average triathlete after a tough MS, the form is falling apart. So for example:

4x75 25 stroke, 50 free (incorporating some form aspect of the stroke, really trying to hold it together)

CD

Just a random added note: every push-off is an opportunity to practice a beautiful, strong yet relaxed, streamlined body position and should be used as such. It's where you can really feel what your core needs to be doing (for example, a little arch in the back, imagining holding a coin lightly between the butt cheeks) in order to keep your body position horizontal and zooming through the water even when stroking.

Here is my contribution to the swim topic.

How not to swim

http://youtu.be/ryTIpvrWuO8

This video gets progressively worst.

I went in to a 5K this morning feeling very tired, and somewhat out of place as apparently the tradition at this race is to wear the pink race shirt during the race.  (I was feeling a little conspicuous in my black top...).  Performance wasn't great, but I managed 2nd OA, so I'll take it.  Long run tomorrow will be interesting.

Have a wonderful weekend everyone!  I'm loving the swim conversation.  Some day I might even actually act on all of this great advice...

The endless pool sure gives a great opportunity for good video!  Does it feel natural - like the same as in a pool?  Is the 1:33 on the wall the time of day or the pace that it is set at (or something else)?

Does. Not. Compute.

Congratulations!!!

I made the linkie clickable above.

You are wrong, mister. That's a right decent swim. Great body position (although because the water's moving in an endless pool, that may help). Still, lovely straight body position, legs are not sinking, nice light flutter kicks. Lots of pretty stuff.

Of course, I can't see what your arms are doing underneath  and that's the most important bit

Really, other than that you push the water down with your hand to make your head pop up a little to breathe, and that I did see your right wrist not perpendicular to your elbow but out to the side, so that your elbow makes an obtuse rather than 90-degree or acute angle, it looks fine.

Good luck tomorrow!!  How is the weather looking?

I live in a similar climate, but I grew up in Wisconsin.  So I find myself able to ride year round -- 30 degrees is no big deal.  The one thing I will not abide here is riding in cold rain.  I suppose I could somehow bundle up against it, but I'm not willing to go that far.

The big issue here is that if you start early Saturday for a long ride (and family commitment pretty much require that for me) it can be 40 when you start and 75 when you end (in the winter).  So the number one priority for me is layering, and having somewhere (i.e., big pockets) to put those layers when they are peeled off.

thanks.

I found the shot from the back really bad. My legs are all over the place

I agree with you. One mistake I see myself do is some drills, almost perfectly but then when the tough set comes fall back to the inefficient, brute force swimming to try and hit the intervals.

I never slowed down to do them right. I have to hit 1:30, I have to hit 1:30, kill myself to hit 1:30 but doing it with the finesse of a gorilla.

This year I am focusing on stroke until the new year. I try to keep the pace reasonable.I do very little drills, just swim but constantly trying to think of one area I am working on.

There are soooooooo many to work on. Next step wrists perpedicular to  elbow as per Yanti's comments

I won't be swimming until Friday unless someone knows of a pool in London. Friday I'll go swimming in Munich. Last time there I ran into Faris, but I suspect he's busy next weekend.

It's not as smooth as a pool. When I get in a pool I always feel much faster as you feel you are gliding on the water.

The endless pool feels more like a lake with very slight chop. There is more turbulence in the water but that's kind of like 8 people in a lane type of turbulence.

I much prefer it. No fighting with people in a lane, no trying to pass people....just press the remote and the pace gets harder or easier

The 1:33 on the wall is pace. it's not perfectly calibrated. It's about 7sec/100m off so the 1:33 is a 1:40/100m.

One set I love to do is set the pace hard and slowly swim towards the blower and then back off and I start to slowly go back.  hard....back...over and over

I use the timer alert on the 310xt to vibrate at a given interval. So if I want to do 16x100 on 1:45, I set my watch to vibrate at 1:45.

It's also a great place to use the water proof MP3

I need to get an underwater camera.

You need to try it next time in Mtl. I am not inviting that TT thread guy that brags about peeing in the pool.

I went back and looked at the video a few more times.  Everything Yanti says here makes total sense.  The head bob and the right wrist were the first things to jump out at me too.

The other thing I wonder about is your turnover rate.  Everyone is different but it seems very slow to me.  I tried to visualize swimming at that rate in my head and the only thing i could equate it to was swimming at a very relaxed IM pace.  What is your effort level in the video and would you consider it typical?  I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, just very different from what I do.

Yes, that is a pretty relaxed pace. Probably IM pace. I have slowed it down a bit and trying to focus more on not crossing over in the front which was really bad previously. Really bad.

Cadence is about 56 per minute and normally I am probably more around 64.

I will work the wrist thing. I am guessing the drill where your hand tries do drag along your body (finger drag I think) is what I want to be doing ?

How do you guys feel about swimming with a band ? Paulo aver in ST land and Joe Filiol used to say it was one of the better swim toys to work with. I see a bit of scissor kick in there and wonder if the band would help.

I really want to improve my swim. At Tremblant 70.3 I have to be out of the water before James and Fred so I can see them zoom by me on the bike.

Seriously, I am leaving way too much time on the table on the swim. I have gotten 1min slower per year on the HIM swim. Last year I did a 23:40 1500m scm at provincials and then I swim a 36min HIM. Something is not right.

"Something is not right"

This is another thought that came into my head when I watched the video and then looked at some of your race results.  I hope that doesn't sound like a negative comment because it really isn't meant to be at all.  I think you can squeeze a lot of time out of your HIM swim without any drastic changes.  I'll let Yanti or someone else comment on the drills you should do, I'm really terrible at fixing people's strokes.  I can tell what's wrong but no idea how to fix it.  

The band is a great tool to work with but man oh man it can be very depressing!  If you are willing to experiment with things to figure out what improves things when using it, it can show you a lot about how the stroke works.  Check your ego at the door when you first put it on though.  

I think Shane's post for clothing mimics mine the best.  My single biggest issue is toes and fingers - those are really the only things that suffer.  I'm toasty everywhere else.  I will add that when it get really cold I may add knee warmers below the tights just to keep that section warm.  I'm considering buying some cheap heatable gloves that run off a battery just to see how they work.

Great feedback on the swim.  I'm pretty sure my swim rate is even slower than Marc's, I'm not sure how you speed it up without fatiguing.