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2013-06-20 3:48 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by Jason N

Ahhh...I guess i'm not so surprised that your advantage tested faster given that's what Giro claims to begin with.  I thought you were comparing two similar aero helmets (with tails) and that one worked better for you (for whatever reason).

With regards to a cooler helmet, how much do you think it helps?  Would a hotter head rob you of 10 watts?  Are you considering the attack because Vegas may not have wind and there are a lot of climbs?  I know even in training with a road helmet, my head gets the hottest when there's no wind and I'm climbing. 

I think that "how much" part tends to get overlooked. And how much less heat would one produce in the first place by simply riding a touch easier in the faster helmet?

Vegas has a bunch of hills, but I didn't think they were really that big. More of a total volume by frequency thing. And no shade. Anywhere. Ever. Except crossing the road in the tunnels early on. I think it might be worth more to put time into managing effort on the frequency of terrain changes and also working on the heat. Both in acclimatization and understand how one will react in it over a longer period of time.

ETA: Just looked at the helmets. There is really a big difference in cooling between the two? The Attack doesn't really have much for vents, but doesn't have ear flaps. What has you set on Giro helmets then?




My logic was the Selector was faster than the Advantage and the AA was a bit slower than the Selector. So how close would the AA and Advantage be ? I tried a Selector...way too hot.. I also tried the Bambino, and it was close to the Advantage, but hot and expensive.

I am not really set on Giro, I had the advantage because it was reasonably priced. Rudy doesn't fit me.

I needed a road helment, heard all the hype on the AA so when I had the change to get it for about $150 I jumped on it.

The AA is a more comfortable helmet. It's much lighter. Is it worth 10watts in really warm weather ? Maybe.

I did Vegas in 2011 and never really suffered of the heat on the bike, but I suspect it is slowly taking it's toll on you. This year will hopefully be better as I am one of the first waves vs the 2nd to last like 2011. That makes a huge difference. 1 less hour in the heat.


2013-06-20 3:48 AM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

It's official....

2013-06-20 4:48 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

For those of you with any photoshop skills (I did this all in Paint...LOL), feel free to add to this.  I had this whole idea similar to the famous IM Tatoo thread on ST with the wolves, flames, etc...but I'm just not that good at photoshop...LOL.

2013-06-20 5:12 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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Elite
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Jason, those are two awesome pics!  ^^^

I finished setting up my bike this morning (race tires, latex tubes and wheel cover).  Gonna take it for a short spin and then pack up the car.  We are driving half way today and then the rest of the way tomorrow morning - about 6-7 hours each day.

2013-06-20 6:49 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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2013-06-20 6:50 AM
in reply to: Jason N

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2013-06-20 7:38 AM
in reply to: marcag

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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by marcag  My logic was the Selector was faster than the Advantage and the AA was a bit slower than the Selector. So how close would the AA and Advantage be ? I tried a Selector...way too hot.. I also tried the Bambino, and it was close to the Advantage, but hot and expensive. I am not really set on Giro, I had the advantage because it was reasonably priced. Rudy doesn't fit me. I needed a road helment, heard all the hype on the AA so when I had the change to get it for about $150 I jumped on it. The AA is a more comfortable helmet. It's much lighter. Is it worth 10watts in really warm weather ? Maybe. I did Vegas in 2011 and never really suffered of the heat on the bike, but I suspect it is slowly taking it's toll on you. This year will hopefully be better as I am one of the first waves vs the 2nd to last like 2011. That makes a huge difference. 1 less hour in the heat.

Ok. I've just used the TT2 and not really thought about it much. Air does seem to get through that vent alright. I can likely make more gains by continuing to work on my head position. There is an older Rudy design that comes to mind without ear flaps but with tail. Is there anything like that on the market now?

And I think the 2011 race got it a bit easy temperature wise. Mid-80's is still quite warm, but it was up in the 90's for 2012 and I feel lucky that's all it was. Iirc, was noticeably warmer the week of and breaking 100 for a long time in the weeks before that. 103 the day before the race. The earlier start can help out with seeing less of the full force of the heat, but be wary of that creep up on you factor as you'll be on the bike during the time of day the temp increases the most. Thinking of how to approach that? As in try to push while it's still not as hot or just ride easier the whole time? I'd try to go easier, but heat has just destroyed me before so need to be more careful than others.

2013-06-20 9:26 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by marcag  MAnd I think the 2011 race got it a bit easy temperature wise. Mid-80's is still quite warm, but it was up in the 90's for 2012 and I feel lucky that's all it was. Iirc, was noticeably warmer the week of and breaking 100 for a long time in the weeks before that. 103 the day before the race. The earlier start can help out with seeing less of the full force of the heat, but be wary of that creep up on you factor as you'll be on the bike during the time of day the temp increases the most. Thinking of how to approach that? As in try to push while it's still not as hot or just ride easier the whole time? I'd try to go easier, but heat has just destroyed me before so need to be more careful than others.




I know people poo-poo HR, but I think this is one metric that can help gauge the impact of heat and adjust accordingly.
Yes 2012 was warmer than 2013, but exchanging for 1 hour at 11AM for an hour at 7AM, makes a big difference.

I never found it hot on the bike. It's when you stop, get off and do those brutal brutal brutal run climbs in the heat.

Why I am doing this ? I need to remind myself sometimes


2013-06-20 9:37 AM
in reply to: marcag

Elite
7783
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PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by marcag ... Why I am doing this ? I need to remind myself sometimes

On Sunday, the answer will be "For your country!".  Laughing

2013-06-20 9:58 AM
in reply to: marcag

Master
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, California
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by brigby1
Originally posted by Jason N

Ahhh...I guess i'm not so surprised that your advantage tested faster given that's what Giro claims to begin with.  I thought you were comparing two similar aero helmets (with tails) and that one worked better for you (for whatever reason).

With regards to a cooler helmet, how much do you think it helps?  Would a hotter head rob you of 10 watts?  Are you considering the attack because Vegas may not have wind and there are a lot of climbs?  I know even in training with a road helmet, my head gets the hottest when there's no wind and I'm climbing. 

I think that "how much" part tends to get overlooked. And how much less heat would one produce in the first place by simply riding a touch easier in the faster helmet?

Vegas has a bunch of hills, but I didn't think they were really that big. More of a total volume by frequency thing. And no shade. Anywhere. Ever. Except crossing the road in the tunnels early on. I think it might be worth more to put time into managing effort on the frequency of terrain changes and also working on the heat. Both in acclimatization and understand how one will react in it over a longer period of time.

ETA: Just looked at the helmets. There is really a big difference in cooling between the two? The Attack doesn't really have much for vents, but doesn't have ear flaps. What has you set on Giro helmets then?

My logic was the Selector was faster than the Advantage and the AA was a bit slower than the Selector. So how close would the AA and Advantage be ? I tried a Selector...way too hot.. I also tried the Bambino, and it was close to the Advantage, but hot and expensive. I am not really set on Giro, I had the advantage because it was reasonably priced. Rudy doesn't fit me. I needed a road helment, heard all the hype on the AA so when I had the change to get it for about $150 I jumped on it. The AA is a more comfortable helmet. It's much lighter. Is it worth 10watts in really warm weather ? Maybe. I did Vegas in 2011 and never really suffered of the heat on the bike, but I suspect it is slowly taking it's toll on you. This year will hopefully be better as I am one of the first waves vs the 2nd to last like 2011. That makes a huge difference. 1 less hour in the heat.

Maybe I'm just speaking for me, but I think the helmet venting is the last thing to worry about.  If I'm moving, I get plenty of air simply from what's hitting my face.

I have both those helmets (Air Advantage 2 and Air Attack Shield), haven't tested them against each other though.  I mainly wanted the Attack for shorter races where it's faster in T1.  No glasses to put on and no ear flaps to screw with.  Seriously, the AA2 is such a pain in the as s.  Pull the helmet sides slowly, mash it on, fix your ears underneath, adjust to get tail down.  Oh yeah and glasses somewhere in that.  Even carefully doing all that I still have an ear flap that's starting to rip, and the thing in general is just painful to wear for long spans of time.

Hot though?  Nah - I wore it for IM Western Australia in 100+F.

I'm going to feel like a serious tri dork testing the two outside though.  Maybe around 4am...

2013-06-20 10:49 AM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by spudoneI'm going to feel like a serious tri dork testing the two outside though.  Maybe around 4am...




Ya, I hear you. The thing about testing is not to do it standalone. it's to incorporate it into a workout.
That's what I do. I get the benefit of the workout, I get some potentially useful data. And it's fun.


I agree with all your comments on the AA2. I the AA for an Oly and it was just so much 'easier'.

I didn't buy it just for heat. I bought it because I needed a road helmet, I knew I was doing Vegas, I kind of liked it, it was cheap....it wasn't one factor it was a combination.

I can still return it, but I think I'll keep it.


2013-06-20 11:08 AM
in reply to: marcag

Master
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Goodyear, AZ
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
I'm still trying to follow along...internet is patchy here because we are travelling. Taking the kids down to Oxford then London for the next 5 days or so...won't know the results of the USA Vs Canada showdown til we get back next week.....as I am in Scottish mode right now, I will remain neutral and wish everyone the best :-)
2013-06-20 11:19 AM
in reply to: axteraa

Subject: ...
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2013-06-20 1:04 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag ... Why I am doing this ? I need to remind myself sometimes

On Sunday, the answer will be "For your country!".  Laughing

Since the Canadians are actually representing the Russians from Rocky IV...I think the only appropriate answer is "I win for me... FOR ME!!!"  LOL.

2013-06-20 3:30 PM
in reply to: Fred D

Veteran
2842
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Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by Fred D
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by marcag ... Why I am doing this ? I need to remind myself sometimes

On Sunday, the answer will be "For your country!".  Laughing

. And for the children.... Don't forget the children....

LMAO

2013-06-20 5:01 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
The secret weapon





2013-06-20 5:06 PM
in reply to: marcag

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by marcag The secret weapon

I think the CIA and NSA has just flagged this thread. 

2013-06-20 5:09 PM
in reply to: Fred D

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Fred...I meant to ask you...what's with the straw on the bike during IMMT?  For the sake of our country, please tell me you're not running that on Sunday.  LMAO.
2013-06-20 5:14 PM
in reply to: Jason N

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by Jason N

Originally posted by marcag The secret weapon

I think the CIA and NSA has just flagged this thread. 




This is not a joke. I am going to wear these puppies. I just replaced the laces on them
2013-06-20 5:21 PM
in reply to: marcag

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Anyone else get the "you're OK, but not really that fast, but if you want to spend more money proving that, please do so by signing up for a USAT race....BTW - the italics are in the original email

 

"Congratulations! You’re receiving this email because you’re one of a select group of triathletes in the U.S. who has finished in the 11-20 percentile of your age group in at least one USA Triathlon-sanctioned local race over the past year. But, as you may know, those who finish in the top-10 percent automatically qualify for the Olympic-distance race on Aug. 10 at the 2013 USA Triathlon Age Group National Championships in Milwaukee.

In other words, you’re sooo close.

USA Triathlon would love to see you in Milwaukee, so we wanted to let you know there’s still time to qualify. If you improve your performance slightly and finish in the top-10 percent of your age group at any race distance during just one sanctioned event by July 11, you’re in. So     visit our online race calendar today to find a sanctioned event near you.

Or, simply lock-in a race slot for Milwaukee now! Yes, you can grab a spot on the start line by registering today for the USA Triathlon Sprint-Distance National Championships on Aug. 11. Unlike the Olympic-distance division, the sprint features open registration (no qualification necessary) and, based on your finish, you can even earn the right to represent the United States at the 2014 ITU Age Group World Championships in Edmonton, Alberta, Canada."

2013-06-20 5:35 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Subject: ...
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2013-06-20 6:31 PM
in reply to: TSimone

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
I only got the email asking me if I wanted to race in the World Championships.  It's a good thing I didn't get this USAT Nationals invite...might have been a tough decision. 
2013-06-20 7:30 PM
in reply to: Jason N

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by Jason N I only got the email asking me if I wanted to race in the World Championships.  It's a good thing I didn't get this USAT Nationals invite...might have been a tough decision. 

OK, I wanted to make a witty and sarcastic post about it being a lottery to Kona and all, but I just can't cuz it's so cool anyway (I am a supporter of the lottery)

2013-06-20 8:38 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by Jason N I only got the email asking me if I wanted to race in the World Championships.  It's a good thing I didn't get this USAT Nationals invite...might have been a tough decision. 

OK, I wanted to make a witty and sarcastic post about it being a lottery to Kona and all, but I just can't cuz it's so cool anyway (I am a supporter of the lottery)

No worries...I'll do it for you...

Hi Jason,

Congratulations.  Despite blowing up at Honu and coming in over an hour after the athlete who EARNED their KQ spot, we have decided to throw you a bone and let you race at Kona anyway.  Many people have unrealistic dreams that they will be fast enough to KQ, and some of them are "so close" that they may actually get there by signing up for another race and improving their performance slightly.  Um...that's not you.

We figured that the 70+ year old female KQers would be lonely out on the course and needed some company.  We hear they prefer the younger guys as pace booty.  We also want to make sure that the finish line around midnight is "electric" so that's where you fit in. 

So take this opportunity to be a part of the Ironman World Championships by completing your registration.  We promise that when you finish, you'll be treated like a king because 80% of the field will already be long gone...showered and drinking beer somewhere.  You should have the finish line all to yourself.

Cheers,

WTC

 

2013-06-20 8:45 PM
in reply to: marcag

Master
5557
50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by spudoneI'm going to feel like a serious tri dork testing the two outside though.  Maybe around 4am...
Ya, I hear you. The thing about testing is not to do it standalone. it's to incorporate it into a workout. That's what I do. I get the benefit of the workout, I get some potentially useful data. And it's fun. I agree with all your comments on the AA2. I the AA for an Oly and it was just so much 'easier'. I didn't buy it just for heat. I bought it because I needed a road helmet, I knew I was doing Vegas, I kind of liked it, it was cheap....it wasn't one factor it was a combination. I can still return it, but I think I'll keep it.

I actually live about 1 mile from a velodrome so I have no excuses as far as the outdoor CdA testing is concerned.  Well, as long as the track doods aren't racing

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