BT Development Mentor Program Archives » SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Rss Feed  
Moderators: alicefoeller Reply
 
 
of 76
 
 
2014-01-11 4:53 AM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

User image

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by axteraa

I think this is very possible.  I did a lot of riding in 2012 in prep for IMMT.  My yearly totals for 2012 on the bike were 50 hours higher than 2013 but without a doubt I would say I am a much stronger rider now and with a few long rides I could put down a much better IM ride than I did with the higher volume.

I'm in no way anti-coach/coaching whatsoever, but could a portion of the above be from coming off a high-quality year of base?  If so, I wonder how much is natural progression and how much is the change in workouts based on coaching.

Matt

There is no doubt some carry over.  I should clarify what I mean by stronger rider as my estimated FTP was only up about 10-15w between the two (according to 5 and 20' tests).  Where I feel much stronger is in my ability to put out sustained power for longer and recover well from it.  If I were to compare rides between the two seasons I would probably see lots of rides of similar length and avg power but the ones in 2013 would have had target intervals that were very race specific.  It made me feel a lot stronger over long periods of time and also gave me a lot of confidence.  

Now you could say that doing that sort of thing just makes sense and I agree....  now.  At the time, I was clueless.  



2014-01-11 5:17 AM
in reply to: 0

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by Fred D 2014-01-11 5:17 AM
2014-01-11 5:20 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
2014-01-11 8:48 AM
in reply to: Fred D

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Fred D
Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by axteraa

I think this is very possible.  I did a lot of riding in 2012 in prep for IMMT.  My yearly totals for 2012 on the bike were 50 hours higher than 2013 but without a doubt I would say I am a much stronger rider now and with a few long rides I could put down a much better IM ride than I did with the higher volume.

I'm in no way anti-coach/coaching whatsoever, but could a portion of the above be from coming off a high-quality year of base?  If so, I wonder how much is natural progression and how much is the change in workouts based on coaching.

Matt

. Matt, I am an 'over-analytic' person on on many things, including language. In reading your post, to me it seems that you are actually torn about the benefits of a coach. Whenever I see a sentence followed by the word 'BUT', it usually uncovers a meaning the OPPOSITE of the sentence that just preceded it, from the writer, by this I mean I suspect you have reservations about the benefits of a coach. I think its a great discussion of whether a coach is a benefit or not, I really do! Personally I am in my 8th year of the sport and in only 2 prior years have I had a coach. I have had mixed feelings about my experiences. My first coach was a local pro and friend. He helped guide me through my first IM successfully. I only used him for 1 year because I felt I could then take over on my own without guidance. Interestingly enough that led to some big injuries the following year. The next year was a great race year for me without a coach and a PB at IMLP (10:22). The following year I hired a coach and I had extreme highs and lows. I won my AG at a big HIM, had a top 5 at Columbia Olympic! which was much better than I thought I could do.... However, my coach did not understand the demands of my work life and by the time my A race rolled around, I was burned out, resulting in my worst race ever (IMWI). I swore off coaches forever lol. I have decided to work with Shane and am pleased he has accepted me! as I've known him on this site for a long time! I have seen his athletes do incredibly well! and those athletes are people I know and respect greatly. So Matt! I TOO, have mixed feelings about coaching, I really do. In my case I chose probably the ONLY person that was on MY list, as I've had years to watch his posts on the forums and years to watch his athletes progress. I'm not looking for Kona qualifying this year, my job just can't allow me proper recovery to crush the AG anymore, I just want to maximize my potential and get a PB at IMMT and perhaps one other race this year. I hope this helps, as your response reminded me of myself, and I hope you don't really see me 'attacking' your language....

Fred - not at all seen as attacking.  In fact, it's a great response, as was Arend's.

The BUT was initially more to ask how much of the perceived benefit of a coach is cognitive dissonance.  The "I have a coach and I've improved, so it must be from the coach" effect, especially when someone has been making gains previously.  Arend's response answered that nicely, and in a way I didn't expect (which is always nice!).  I agree that things that make sense in the "retrospectoscope" are often not at all obvious when you're in the moment (I can't tell you how many things I do differently each year that I take for granted but were hard earned when I learned them) and that a coach can accelerated the process (helping you know what you don't know).

Your response is spot on for me.  There is a HUGE part of me that wants to work with a coach.  In every competitive sport I've been in (hockey, rugby and skiing predominantly) I have valued the coaches tremendously, and I insist that my kids (and suggest to my Better Half, as insisting isn't wise) get lessons and coaching for all their endeavors (from sport to music).  

In tri, I feel like I could be considerably more competitive MORE QUICKLY with a coach.  When the race calendar and improvements are measured in seasons, that's a big deal.  The conflict comes both from schedule (I, too, have a sometimes wacky one) and liking the process of learning by hard knocks and effort.

Not efficient, or even effective, sometimes, but fun.

So, you read my post exactly right!  I am conflicted, in a sense, but not because I don't see the value in coaching.  I think this is a very interesting discussion and really appreciate the thought people are putting into evaluating both why they have/haven't gone with a coach and what they've gotten out of it.

If I blow up this season, I'm getting one.  

Thanks.

Matt

2014-01-11 1:22 PM
in reply to: Fred D

Champion
6656
500010005001002525
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Last day on Maui for now. I got a short, slow run in this am without too much trouble from the ankles.

Short little ride to spin out the legs and then it will be time to pack up le boyfriend in the bike bag!
2014-01-11 1:23 PM
in reply to: mndymond

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by mndymond Last day on Maui for now. I got a short, slow run in this am without too much trouble from the ankles. Short little ride to spin out the legs and then it will be time to pack up le boyfriend in the bike bag!

Safe travels home!

I got to run in shorts today as the temp was above freezing.  It kind of made me feel like I was in Hawaii.  



2014-01-11 2:28 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

Master
1927
100050010010010010025
Guilford, CT
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Just to add. I've done self coached and coached before. I had mixed feelings. I did what everyone does. Read a couple books, thought I could do it on my own just as well. Sometimes it is hard because you are too close to your own training and need the objective view and someone to tell you to rest when you should so that you can execute the hard days properly etc. Getting a coach is like getting a new girlfriend or boyfriend I think. Sometimes both have the best intentions but the athlete and coach's styles/personalities don't mesh well. I've talked to a few coach's and there are definitely commonalities, but there are also differences. You really need to 'buy in' to the approach to have it work for you.

When I did have a coach for 6 months I improved at a pretty good rate and was a much more well rounded triathlete. I blew up at my first ironman but so do most people and it didn't have much to do the coach. I had good fitness. I did well in a hilly hard half ironman during my build and felt fantastic.
Time and money are a constraint for me right now, but I'd love to get a coach again to help me optimize 8hrs/wk.
2014-01-11 3:45 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Champion
6656
500010005001002525
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by mndymond Last day on Maui for now. I got a short, slow run in this am without too much trouble from the ankles. Short little ride to spin out the legs and then it will be time to pack up le boyfriend in the bike bag!

Safe travels home!

I got to run in shorts today as the temp was above freezing.  It kind of made me feel like I was in Hawaii.  




Well you do live on an island.....basically the same thing....:P

Le boyfriend is all packed! I'm becoming a pro at packing him!

I saved a woman who had a flat today. She borrowed a bike...spare tube but no tools or pump/co2...changed it and pumped it for her. Now I should have good bike karma all year, right?

2014-01-11 5:32 PM
in reply to: 0

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ChrisM

Violating the w/kg rule...    5' test was 383.   4.3 w/kg.   If this song were 1:12 longer it would be the perfect 5' test song.  Build up to 1:30 then BAM it's on....

Unsustainable

Repeat? And nice going!

Thanks, and yes let it play for a bit over a minute, then started again.  BTW it's how Muse opened their shows last year and was a-ma-zing

On a disappointing front, started walk/running this week, went fine over three runs but yesterday foot started getting sore in the same area as the previous injury  I had been 10 plus days asymptomatic.  Figures, I finally got around to booking NOLA airfare, and now it's potentially at risk.  SO I'll take another two weeks off and go from there I guess.   It is unbelievably frustrating.  My goal is really the middle to end of the season June - September, so I have plenty of time for that, it's just NOLA at risk.  I'll have to decide in two weeks whether to take more time or just start running and deal with it through the season.  After all, I did an IM and a HIM PR and set a HM PR with the issue in 2013....I just wonder how little run training I can have going into NOLA and still be reasonable.

Grrrr.



Edited by ChrisM 2014-01-11 5:39 PM
2014-01-12 8:03 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

I was a timing "runner" at my daughter's swim meet last night.  What a great way to pick up on good form!

(and she PR'd both her events - 50 free and back last night - by half a second)  

Guess all those drills work...

Off for a run now, as it's sunny and almost 40!  Wooohooooooooooo!!!!!!

 

Matt

2014-01-12 9:30 AM
in reply to: ChrisM

Veteran
1677
1000500100252525
Houston, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Chris, really bummed to hear your foot is still giving you trouble.  What are your symptoms?

I've just started having some foot issues as well, so I've had to take a week and a half off of running so far.  Everything was going so well leading up to it.  I'm pretty sure I caused it by running in shoes that weren't a good match for me, on hills (which I never do as I live in an area that's pancake flat, but found myself on them when visiting Socal). 

Here's to hoping we can both get through these dumb foot issues soon!



2014-01-12 4:30 PM
in reply to: 0

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by Fred D 2014-01-12 4:30 PM
2014-01-12 4:32 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ChrisM

Violating the w/kg rule...    5' test was 383.   4.3 w/kg.   If this song were 1:12 longer it would be the perfect 5' test song.  Build up to 1:30 then BAM it's on....

Unsustainable

Repeat? And nice going!

Thanks, and yes let it play for a bit over a minute, then started again.  BTW it's how Muse opened their shows last year and was a-ma-zing

On a disappointing front, started walk/running this week, went fine over three runs but yesterday foot started getting sore in the same area as the previous injury  I had been 10 plus days asymptomatic.  Figures, I finally got around to booking NOLA airfare, and now it's potentially at risk.  SO I'll take another two weeks off and go from there I guess.   It is unbelievably frustrating.  My goal is really the middle to end of the season June - September, so I have plenty of time for that, it's just NOLA at risk.  I'll have to decide in two weeks whether to take more time or just start running and deal with it through the season.  After all, I did an IM and a HIM PR and set a HM PR with the issue in 2013....I just wonder how little run training I can have going into NOLA and still be reasonable.

Grrrr.

That's pretty frustrating Chris!  I hope you can figure it out soon.  

2014-01-12 4:33 PM
in reply to: 0

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by Fred D 2014-01-12 4:33 PM
2014-01-12 5:44 PM
in reply to: Fred D

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

On my long run today, I saw a Bald Eagle eating the carcass of a deer that (presumably, and per town hubbub) coyotes killed and dragged out on the Concord River ice (or herded it out there after it was hit by a car and broke a leg and took it down there).  

WTF?!?  I live within a dozen miles of Boston.  The wild is never as far as away as we think… for which I'm glad!

Pretty dang cool.

Matt

2014-01-12 7:53 PM
in reply to: Fred D

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Fred D Two good workouts for me today. 70' on the trainer with 10' at 268w then 2x5' at 275-280w. Still early in my bike recovery. Then a short swim with Megan. She had no practice this weekend and we swam both days. Best sets? 16x25 IM, then 10x100 descending. Swimming has improved greatly for me in a few months, very happy with that!

10 x 100 IM, right? 



2014-01-12 8:40 PM
in reply to: brigby1

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

What cadence have people been riding for their 5' and 20' tests?

Matt

2014-01-12 9:30 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

What cadence have people been riding for their 5' and 20' tests?

Matt

Think it would be more helpful to know a larger span than that. I would probably be high 80's to 90 for the 20' and that or a bit higher for the 5'. Something like Revolver (16 x 1' (1')) is more like high 90's to just over 100. More common sub-threshold levels (easy to just into Z4 are likely to be high 80's, but could have a wider range off of that. More likely to go lower than higher though, unless I'm trying to work on something specifically.

2014-01-12 10:19 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Champion
6656
500010005001002525
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Back in Prince George now. Did you know that a kickboard can double as a snow shovel to dog your vehicle out of 1.5 ft of snow? Just FYI for the future,

Kickboard=snow shovel

Shane has me doing a few short easy runs this week. Hopefully the ankles cooperate...bit stiff today.
2014-01-12 10:24 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

Champion
6656
500010005001002525
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by ChrisM

Violating the w/kg rule...    5' test was 383.   4.3 w/kg.   If this song were 1:12 longer it would be the perfect 5' test song.  Build up to 1:30 then BAM it's on....

Unsustainable

Repeat? And nice going!

Thanks, and yes let it play for a bit over a minute, then started again.  BTW it's how Muse opened their shows last year and was a-ma-zing

On a disappointing front, started walk/running this week, went fine over three runs but yesterday foot started getting sore in the same area as the previous injury  I had been 10 plus days asymptomatic.  Figures, I finally got around to booking NOLA airfare, and now it's potentially at risk.  SO I'll take another two weeks off and go from there I guess.   It is unbelievably frustrating.  My goal is really the middle to end of the season June - September, so I have plenty of time for that, it's just NOLA at risk.  I'll have to decide in two weeks whether to take more time or just start running and deal with it through the season.  After all, I did an IM and a HIM PR and set a HM PR with the issue in 2013....I just wonder how little run training I can have going into NOLA and still be reasonable.

Grrrr.




Boo! Frustrating!
2014-01-12 10:48 PM
in reply to: mndymond

Seattle
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!
Did a long hard tempo yesterday in steady 20 MPH winds then did fast turn over drills for a total of 12 miles then a 20 mile long run, half on the hilly trails today. I think that cross country season really set me up well for marathon training. Week two is done!


2014-01-13 2:51 AM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

What cadence have people been riding for their 5' and 20' tests?

Matt

99 for 5' and 94 for 20'.  I don't think it's really indicative of anything though, other than that's the gear + rpm combo that produces that power for my trainer.  Both are outside of my typical range which would be high 80s, sometimes into low 90s for interval work.  The exception to that would be short stuff (30" or less) where I will likely be doing higher cadence.

The 99 rpm for the 5' was outside my comfort zone a bit but I didn't want to shift mid test and mess something up.  I knew I would be ok to maintain it (once).  If I was doing a set of intervals I would almost certainly have done the next one at a lower cadence.

2014-01-13 2:54 AM
in reply to: Asalzwed

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!!

Originally posted by Asalzwed Did a long hard tempo yesterday in steady 20 MPH winds then did fast turn over drills for a total of 12 miles then a 20 mile long run, half on the hilly trails today. I think that cross country season really set me up well for marathon training. Week two is done!

Yowsers, that's some miles!  Nice work!

Is that a typical weekend for your training plan?

2014-01-13 6:14 AM
in reply to: 0

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.

Edited by Fred D 2014-01-13 6:15 AM
2014-01-13 6:18 AM
in reply to: Fred D

Subject: ...
This user's post has been ignored.
New Thread
BT Development Mentor Program Archives » SBR Utopia ---- Permanently OPEN!! Rss Feed  
 
 
of 76
 
 
RELATED POSTS

KiterChick's beginner friendly group - CLOSED Pages: 1 ... 8 9 10 11

Started by KiterChick
Views: 21894 Posts: 272

2014-05-16 10:43 AM KiterChick

Todd's Tri Turtles 2 (Beginner, Sprint, 5K, 10 K) - Closed Pages: 1 ... 30 31 32 33

Started by Hunting Triathlete
Views: 38804 Posts: 803

2014-05-18 8:03 AM Hunting Triathlete

BrotherTri’s - Triathlon Training Support Group - CLOSED Pages: 1 ... 10 11 12 13

Started by BrotherTri
Views: 20746 Posts: 308

2014-04-13 8:12 AM mcmanusclan5

Daffodil and JuniperJen’s New Parents Tri’ing Group - OPEN Pages: 1 ... 11 12 13 14

Started by juniperjen
Views: 25496 Posts: 329

2014-07-12 2:16 PM Happyinmarin

Shane's (gsmacleod) Coaching Mentor Group - Open Pages: 1 ... 2 3 4 5

Started by gsmacleod
Views: 16728 Posts: 116

2014-05-14 7:37 AM Dominion
RELATED ARTICLES
date : June 14, 2012
author : IndoIronYanti
comments : 4
MAPS is Meditation, Acclimatization, Practice, and Strategy, which are key for giving you the confidence and skills to execute the open-water swim in a triathlon well.
 
date : September 15, 2011
comments : 0
Don't be scared for the swim! Gain more confidence for your open water swims with these tips
date : December 17, 2007
author : LukeTX04
comments : 0
I learned in this race that in order to finish the swim, you have to know where you are going. And in order to know where you are going, you have to learn to sight.
 
date : September 25, 2007
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 0
Discussion on sinking hips, balance drills, open water freak-out, best breathing for open water swimming and head position.
date : August 7, 2007
author : Tri Swim Coach
comments : 0
You can practice several things like bi-lateral breathing, sight less and use long strokes to help you swim straight
 
date : September 3, 2006
author : TriDDS
comments : 1
Stroke after stroke, my pace was pulling me out into the middle of the lake quickly. The cover seemed to be getting thicker. But still in the distance, the little boathouse was my lighthouse.
date : June 6, 2006
author : marmadaddy
comments : 0
The DVD assumes little-to-no experience with competitive swimming and starts off in the pool citing the need to build confidence in a controlled environment.
 
date : October 30, 2005
author : acbadger
comments : 0
The swim is ALWAYS a cause for concern when it comes to competing in a triathlon. This is the event for which you need to concentrate on RELAXING.