SBR Utopia - OPEN (Page 142)

Good job keeping things upright with the chain jam.  I've had it happen to me once and you have to react fast!

Hah, just drove four hours each way for a race with the bikes mounted on the roof rack....they are full of bugs (and mine seems to have found all the spilled electrolyte drink!) and all kinds of dirty.  I'm too tired/lazy to do anything about it tonight, but I imagine they'll get cleaned in the next day or so!

Well, if I didn't wear anything today (and I'm better insulated than most - kind of sasquatchy, except my head… I know, TMI), I'd be in hospital with exposure.  I'm told spring follows winter, so I remain steadfastly hopeful.

Ran 10.5 this morning, first 8 or so with Kim (love doing that) and then boogied the last couple solo.  Felt great, even though tired from yesterday's run/ride.  Then things got interesting - did ~46 on the bike on a hilly route that I like, but FROZE my keester off (even with a cap under the helmet and a full jacket and booties!).  Caught me by surprise, as the forecast was not for "almost snowing."  

OK, I guess that was my "sick of the snow" post - kinda lame, as there is barely any visible snow around.  Just raw…  I think I'll have a big glass of HTFU and soldier on.

Nice thing about the ride was that I was trying to keep a steady power output (~220W) and nailed it - -with nice steady power trace.

Off to get ready for the Patriots' day parade tomorrow.  Rest day (which means a light run and a swim - something wrong there), to which I'm looking forward, and a bunch of folks over the house, as we're right on the parade route.  <pls excuse the non s/b/r nature of the last paragraph - although there is a training reference>

Went to Masters tonight and did ok. Did alright holding speed for a bit, then tired. Had some muscle aches that really limited me. Aerobically was fine. Should be back to normal within a few swims.

Got to practice some diving starts from off the blocks tonight. First time ever for me. Seemed to do ok, but gave the coach a heart attack on the first few. Apparently one isn't supposed to brush the bottom of the pool.

Fyi, high or low doesn't really mean anything towards what you're thinking. Threshold is threshold and feels pretty much the same to everyone. There may be some things to check into if it seems to be really high or low, but if all that checks out the absolute number doesn't mean that much. It's more to set up the other work, so how things relate to that will be similar for everyone.

On the good news front, ankle is basically asymptomatic despite two days of hard riding with lots of climbing.  But I have my PT (and acupuncture) tomorrow, and coach has switched me to a bike focus week, so no matter what happens I am just going to do a swim/bike focus week and see where I am at next weekend.  Also switching Wildflower long course to the Olympic distance.  I love the WF long course, but i've never done the Oly.   So (if I do it) I will have done the sprint, Oly and LC there.

Now fun with power.   This week and last I rode the same ride up Mandeville Canyon, a local hot spot climb, about 5 miles, 1K elevation, ave 3.7%, max 11% kicker at the end.  Last week was the first with the PT, and decided to open 'er up.   Time was 21:00, NP 312, ave HR 167, shattered at the top.   Yesterday, was instructed to decided to start learning how to hold a power range and save a little energy.  Time was 23:55, NP 282 (so a little high), Ave HR 150 and felt great at the top.  Interesting lesson how a huge cost of energy only gets less than 2 minutes.....

You're near Tacoma... if you want a 12k course that'll put you to the test, try the Sound to Narrows race. I think it's June 8th(?).

I can't believe I'm about to type these next few words... I have ran 5 mile drive at Point Defiance Park many times, and I love it. I don't find it very challenging.  That is probably because I run rolling hills in Gig Harbor all the time (there is no such things as a long flat run out here)  

I don't say that to brag (and I hope it didn't come across as cocky - it wasn't my intent) - I say it because I still remember the first time I ran 5 mile drive... the climbing almost killed me!  That was a little over a year ago.  

That said - if my memory serves me correctly, that little stretch from the start / finish to 5 mile drive is a killer with some very steep climbs.  Also - I have never "raced" it... big difference.  I think I'll take your advice, and add it to my race schedule, in lieu of the Eugene 1/2 Marathon.  Thanks for the recommendation.  I love a good challenge.  

It's funny how different riding with power is (or, more accurately, riding according to power - I have a lot of friends who have power meters and use them as a curiosity or to see how high they can spike them… "What's the record" kind of approach).

I actually notice it most when I'm riding with people who don't ride in a given range and just go ad lib.  They empty themselves on a hill and then softpedal down the backside - going slower all in than pushing a given power.  Can be fun, and I certainly do it sometimes (Strava segments anyone?), just mention it because you can really see the difference.

I suspect (thought am a noob so don't really know yet) that the steady approach is muuuuuuuch better in a tri (the variation would, I imagine, thrash your legs for the run).  

Anyone care to comment on how running feels after a steady effort vs a very variable one - even if the NP or AP is the same at the end?  Would be curious to know...

Thanks!

And happy Patriots' Day all.

Matt 

Good stuff Fred!

I did a bunch of my long rides for IMMT with roadies turned triathletes last summer - guys that were much stronger than me.  Plenty of dream crushing on the hills.  They pushed me way out of my comfort zone and it was great!  

That goes well with the discussion about evenly paced power.  The long rides I did with those guys were typically very punchy as they like to hit the hills hard.  A 6 hour ride with them could be AP = 170w, NP 205w, VI - 1.2 and there was zero chance of me running decently off that.  My IM ride was AP = 169w, NP 180w VI = 1.06 and while I still didn't run a decent marathon, I think I would have had a much better shot at it had I trained better for the run.

I think I got a lot of benefits from doing it in training.  It gave me confidence, it pushed me hard and like you said, it was FUN!

It's certainly not a good way to practice pacing though.  

I use to ride with roadies all the time and would go back to it in a heartbeat if there was any place to ride and anyone to ride with.  It is a darn good way to push yourself. 

Fred, during the summer I'll start doing group rides a couple of Saturdays a month. It pushes me, as the group breaks up into levels and I try to stick with the ones that are a step above me. It helps me figure out what I can do, or maybe what I shouldn't do It pushes me a bit, and that is a good thing.

We have tons of organized group rides multiple times a day every day of the week, and I will take advantage of ite opportunity as training dictates. I can attest to the soul crushing as well - it is just a different kind of riding than the pure steady stuff that most of us triathletes normally do. Most of my road riding is with folks on regular group routes with seasons and point structures, where everyone generally knows each other, knows the routes, and knows everyone's strengths and weaknesses. For instance, I know I better be at least near the front on climbs if I want to survive - I will go thought group like sh*t through a goose when they start attacking the hills. If I go off the back on a long climb during a grippy bit, I have learned not to panic as I can probably ride back on before the top at a much lower physiological expense than trying to stay on during the attacks. I will never win a sprint (I missed a solo breakaway and came in second on one this winter, but it was sort of a slow-motion sprint into a 40mph head wind - pure roadies don't like putting their nose in the wind), but I love, love, love leading out. I typically cannot get away in a solo break, but I am good at bridging up to one. Road riding really is a lot of fun the way the ride unfolds dynamically and how strategic you have to be in playing to your strengths, minimizing your weaknesses, sometimes being a team player, and other times being a complete douche. And the fact that it is all friendly fun makes that much better.

I did a century last weekend and eventually had to stop for a mechanical about 25 miles in, so I soloed the last 75 miles in at a very "pleasant" pace. I ran 4x1 mile repeats afterward and felt great. Last year I rode the same ride with a reasonably good group and was absolutely shelled at the finish. I remember sitting next to the track watching my wife do a little 15 minute transition run thinking "how in the world is she doings that?!?" There is no way I could have taken a single step around that oval. Arend - when I get in front of a real computer I will check my VI between those two rides - be interesting to see. Although I am guessing the one from this year may still be a little upside down as I could climb just fine but had to freewheel the bigger descents due to shifting issues. Factoring out the time I was stopped trying to sort out my shifting issues, this years ride was only 16 minutes slower than last year - but this year I still could have run a marathon, and probably a fairly good one. Last year would have been a guaranteed DNF if it were the bike leg of an ironman. Crazy and important to realize that is the difference of only 1mph.

When first starting tri, I would sometimes ride with another friend of similar ability (triathlete too) and one other who just rode. I got frustrated riding with them and stopped. They would attack at odd random places, or wait until right at the end of my pull. It really wasn't much fun. I actually got better on my own because I could control the efforts better and do things more appropriate for development. I generally wouldn't push as much in the group because of the constant threat of attack, so I didn't get as much out of it.

I have been considering going with a former classmate of my brother sometimes, a Cat 1 roadie. From looking over rides that he's posted we ride fairly similar speeds for the most part, I might actually average a tad higher (tri vs roadie though). But the difference is that when he goes, he GOES. There are usually a couple spots in a ride where he'll rip off 450ish for 5 min or so. Him and one of his buddies have most every local strava segment.

Yeah Ben, that sounds like the opposite of fun. We have a weekly group ride here that is like that, but with 150 people. It is a free for all, and actually quite dangerous - I can never figure out out how it draws so many folks. Alternatively a group that is organized, well controlled, has recognized attack, sprint, and neutral zones, points, etc can be very conducive to training, particularly during a threshold block. There is no way I could do "intervals" quite like that on my own. Like you though I would see no value in dragging a dude around all day just to get attacked on the back-end.

Yes, it definitely made me a better and faster cyclist this past year. I am interested to see how it translates into Triathlon though. I have a couple races coming up so I am trying to make sure I get in some solo riding too. I need to remember not to draft in the race!

If AP is similar, then NP will be noticeably different between the two, with the spikier ride being a harder ride and therefore harder to run off of.

With similar NP, the spikier ride will again be the harder one to run off of. The difference can be lessened with training, but generally will still be harder. This is what ITU guys try to do to each other, even though they tend to ride in big bunches. I've ridden for several hours at a similar NP as something like Revolver will come out to and still run ok after, but have never come close to a decent run after Revolver (15 x 1', 130% FTP work, ~50% recovery), and it's only 45 minutes or so.