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2013-12-20 6:04 PM
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by marcag I just read your post on ST. I'd be pissed. Actually I am pissed.

Thanks for having my back Marc.  I don't expect them to honor the contract now...  However I think what he wrote, and what we both picked up on, is a bit distrubing.  That if after taking signups the $$s don't work out, they simply cancel.....  You being pissed is now getting me a little pissed....   which is hard because my limited dealings with them they've been a good company, and they seem to be standup folks about their business (i.e., the bikes that got stolen recently).



Edited by ChrisM 2013-12-20 6:07 PM


2013-12-20 6:27 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag I just read your post on ST. I'd be pissed. Actually I am pissed.

Thanks for having my back Marc.  I don't expect them to honor the contract now...  However I think what he wrote, and what we both picked up on, is a bit distrubing.  That if after taking signups the $$s don't work out, they simply cancel.....  You being pissed is now getting me a little pissed....   which is hard because my limited dealings with them they've been a good company, and they seem to be standup folks about their business (i.e., the bikes that got stolen recently).

What was interesting was that for Honu 70.3, TBT does pick up from Oahu and ship to Kona since there are about 250 Oahu athletes that do the race.  So it makes sense for them.  For the Kona IM, you can imagine that there are a lot less Oahu athletes that participate...maybe about 25.  On their website, it showed that the same LBS that accepted bikes on Oahu for Honu, would also accept bikes for Kona IM.  So that was my original plan.  In July, I was one step away from paying in full...but I decided to wait...you know...just in case.

1 week before the drop off date in September, I was ready to pay, and noticed that the LBS on Oahu were no longer an option.  I called the LBS and they had no idea TBT was even working with them for Kona and said traditionally they only work with them for Honu.  Interesting....  So I emailed TBT, and got a response a few days later saying that they put those LBS on their website in error, but were offereing to find a way to get my bike shipped anyway.  I imagine all the bikes come from the mainland to Oahu first anyway...and it was just a matter of getting my bike on the plane with the bikes from Oahu to Kona.  I ignored the email though...thinking I didn't want to chance something going wrong.  I already had a bike box, and I was willing to pay more for TBT because of simplicity.  It's only $35 each way to fly with my box...TBT was charging $180 for Hawaii residents.  So they were willing to make it right on their mistake...I just didn't take it up with them.  Had I paid back in July, and did not have a bike box...I would have freaked out.

ETA: Everyone I know who has used TBT for Honu have been extremely happy with them.  I will probably use them in the future for Honu just because packing your bike the day after a race sucks (or more likely the afternoon after the race).  If I was planning on staying over a few days after the race...then I'd probably use the box.



Edited by Jason N 2013-12-20 6:30 PM
2013-12-20 6:33 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag I just read your post on ST. I'd be pissed. Actually I am pissed.

Thanks for having my back Marc.  I don't expect them to honor the contract now...  However I think what he wrote, and what we both picked up on, is a bit distrubing.  That if after taking signups the $$s don't work out, they simply cancel.....  You being pissed is now getting me a little pissed....   which is hard because my limited dealings with them they've been a good company, and they seem to be standup folks about their business (i.e., the bikes that got stolen recently).




If it's a one time mistake, they should suck it up and take the loss. Why should you ?
If it's not a one time mistake people should be aware it could be cancelled at any time. This I think is going to hurt them

If this is their policy, I will never use them if/when they come to Mtl. Travelling has enough unknowns/uncertainties/unpredictability...we don't need another


2013-12-20 7:04 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by marcag I just read your post on ST. I'd be pissed. Actually I am pissed.

Thanks for having my back Marc.  I don't expect them to honor the contract now...  However I think what he wrote, and what we both picked up on, is a bit distrubing.  That if after taking signups the $$s don't work out, they simply cancel.....  You being pissed is now getting me a little pissed....   which is hard because my limited dealings with them they've been a good company, and they seem to be standup folks about their business (i.e., the bikes that got stolen recently).

If it's a one time mistake, they should suck it up and take the loss. Why should you ? If it's not a one time mistake people should be aware it could be cancelled at any time. This I think is going to hurt them If this is their policy, I will never use them if/when they come to Mtl. Travelling has enough unknowns/uncertainties/unpredictability...we don't need another

Marc has a good point.

Chris, I know they offered to pay for packing and shipping, but I would ask TBT to take it a step further.  Tell them you will pack the bike, drop off the bike at whatever courier they choose (FedEx, UPS, etc), but you will ship it to whatever location in New Orleans TBT wants to pick it up.  They are responsible for unpacking, and assembling your bike so it's ready to go when you arrive...just like it would be if TBT honored their normal service.  After the race, you drop your bike off to them as you would have...and they are responsible for packing your bike back up, and dropping it off at the courier of their choice and send it wherever you want (either to your home, office, LBS, etc).

TBT should take care of all the costs given you already paid them.  They already have mechanics on hand at NOLA...so having them unpack and repack a bike shouldn't cost them anything extra.  You're still left with the job of packing your bike up before the race, and unpacking after the race, but I think that would be a fair compromise on your part.

2013-12-20 7:10 PM
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Edited by Fred D 2013-12-20 7:16 PM
2013-12-20 7:14 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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2013-12-21 12:19 PM
in reply to: 0

Master
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Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

(Nicole, nothing to see here)

Sufferfest's ISLAGIATT, near 2 hrs hitting 308 NP overall. 365 on the 8' interval (~1:30 in).



Edited by brigby1 2013-12-21 12:36 PM
2013-12-21 1:00 PM
in reply to: brigby1

Master
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Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by brigby1

(Nicole, nothing to see here)

Sufferfest's ISLAGIATT, near 2 hrs hitting 308 NP overall. 365 on the 8' interval (~1:30 in).




308 NP is that Newton Power?

8 minute intervals?

2013-12-21 1:09 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by brigby1

(Nicole, nothing to see here)

Sufferfest's ISLAGIATT, near 2 hrs hitting 308 NP overall. 365 on the 8' interval (~1:30 in).

308 NP is that Newton Power? 8 minute intervals?

NP: Normalized Power

The video has 15', 20', 20' intervals done somewhere in the 90's as a % of FTP, then the (really) hard 8', then 7:30 attacking that's all over the place. Various recovery intervals between each. The entire thing is ~1 hr 56' depending how fast you get on the bike from starting the vid. I really like this one.  A good, solid warm-up and into a lot of strong work right where I like to go at, kind of on the aggressive end of sweet spot.

2013-12-21 1:19 PM
in reply to: 0

Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Ok, next questions. Was that for the entire ride? What was your average watts for that ride? I really don't training with power except with a CompuTrainer and then it only in average watts over time or certain watts held at time for intervals. Thanks

Edited by BrotherTri 2013-12-21 1:32 PM
2013-12-21 2:16 PM
in reply to: brigby1

Veteran
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Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by brigby1

(Nicole, nothing to see here)

Sufferfest's ISLAGIATT, near 2 hrs hitting 308 NP overall. 365 on the 8' interval (~1:30 in).

That. Is. SICK.


2013-12-21 2:19 PM
in reply to: brigby1

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by brigby1

(Nicole, nothing to see here)

Sufferfest's ISLAGIATT, near 2 hrs hitting 308 NP overall. 365 on the 8' interval (~1:30 in).

308 NP is that Newton Power? 8 minute intervals?

NP: Normalized Power

The video has 15', 20', 20' intervals done somewhere in the 90's as a % of FTP, then the (really) hard 8', then 7:30 attacking that's all over the place. Various recovery intervals between each. The entire thing is ~1 hr 56' depending how fast you get on the bike from starting the vid. I really like this one.  A good, solid warm-up and into a lot of strong work right where I like to go at, kind of on the aggressive end of sweet spot.

Ben, do you go into something like that with a target power in mind for those intervals or just a range and whatever you hit, you hit?

2013-12-21 2:45 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
What I would like to figure out is how much difference NP is over average watts. From my understanding NP is some kind of average power. Can anybody set me straight?

Thanks

2013-12-21 3:29 PM
in reply to: 0

Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by BrotherTri

What I would like to figure out is how much difference NP is over average watts. From my understanding NP is some kind of average power. Can anybody set me straight?

Thanks




Here are two extremes

You cycle at an even 200w for 1 hour. You AP will be 200w, your NP will be 200w
Now pretend you are going up and down a mountain. You go up 10min at 400w and you come down 10min at 0w. Your AP will be 200w.

Which one do you think is harder on your body ? The gong up, coming down, going up, coming down. The NP on this ride will probably be 270w..I am guessing, I could calculate it but too lazy

NP is more the physiolical cost on your body. While you only average 200w, the true cost on your body was 270w. In theory your body is "as tired" as if it had cycled 270w constantly.

This is an extreme. Cycling 270w on flat would in fact be harder, but NP is pretty close to what your body feels, esepcially when riding on a course a little less extreme like rolling hills.

I did a ride this summer, going up and down a mountain. I would climb at 310w for 6min and go down for about 2 or 3 at 0w. It hold me my NP for the 1hour I did this was 270w. No way it was as hard as holding 270w for 1hour.


here is a ride wihere AP = 213 and NP = 236.
http://www.trainingpeaks.com/av/IHX6SZMNFQGY5KQBQBRZGKEVUU

It felt a lot more like 236.

Because NP is more "what it really felt like" or the "physioligical cost" of the ride, it is why it is used in things like training stress scores.

Edited by marcag 2013-12-21 3:35 PM
2013-12-21 4:10 PM
in reply to: marcag

Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Thanks Marc. Most (97%) of my CT rides are flat and most (85%'ish) of my outside rides are up hills. Makes me wounder.....
2013-12-21 5:29 PM
in reply to: marcag

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

I looked back to 2012 when I was probably in my best cycling shape and I did a group ride where for 1.5 hours, I held 201w AP, but NP was 283.  That was a make you want to puke ride.  It did include about 15 minutes of stoppage time, but it definitely felt a lot harder than averaging 201 watts over 1.5 hours.  The VI for that ride portion of the ride was 1.41.  Lots of accelerations, attacking, etc.

I have no clue how Ben holds 308 NP for 2 hours. 



2013-12-21 5:40 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
Originally posted by Jason N
I have no clue how Ben holds 308 NP for 2 hours. 




He told us.


Originally posted by brigby1
Add like 50% to yours to convert. That's what the guys do anyway.




Edited by marcag 2013-12-21 5:42 PM
2013-12-21 6:09 PM
in reply to: marcag

Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN
I wounder what the NP would be for a race like the Savageman.

My CompuTrainer ride tonight

20’ WU
Watts Avg 191
RPM Avg 79
HR Avg 128
MPH Avg 20

5x
300w 2’
2’ recovery @160w

Rest of the hour 190-225w and last 10’ 160w’ish CD

Over all AVG

Overall Avg’s
Watts Avg 191.6
RPM Avg 81.2
HR Avg 140.6
MPH Avg 20.0


Nothing like Ben, but I am just starting my winter bike training.

2013-12-21 6:24 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

Elite
7783
50002000500100100252525
PEI, Canada
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Ever have one of those long runs where your pace is way faster than normal?  Today I had a 75 min run (so not terribly long) and it was just supposed to be a steady easy paced run.  Usually I would do something like this in the 5:10-5:15/km average pace range - on a good day maybe 5:05.  For some reason today's run was at a 4:45/km pace and felt really easy.  I could have kept going at that effort for quite a while.

No idea where it came from.  I was even questioning my watch thinking maybe the GPS was going haywire.  I mapped it out on mapmyrun after and it was right on for distance.  I'm sure I'll be back to reality on my next run.

2013-12-21 6:43 PM
in reply to: marcag

Veteran
2842
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Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by marcag
Originally posted by Jason N I have no clue how Ben holds 308 NP for 2 hours. 
He told us.
Originally posted by brigby1 Add like 50% to yours to convert. That's what the guys do anyway.

Snort!

(that was my rum and diet coke coming out of my nose)

Seriously though, I don't know how Jason or Ben or…. all you other sickos do it.  Strava don't lie.  

Matt

2013-12-21 6:45 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by axteraa

Ever have one of those long runs where your pace is way faster than normal?  Today I had a 75 min run (so not terribly long) and it was just supposed to be a steady easy paced run.  Usually I would do something like this in the 5:10-5:15/km average pace range - on a good day maybe 5:05.  For some reason today's run was at a 4:45/km pace and felt really easy.  I could have kept going at that effort for quite a while.

No idea where it came from.  I was even questioning my watch thinking maybe the GPS was going haywire.  I mapped it out on mapmyrun after and it was right on for distance.  I'm sure I'll be back to reality on my next run.

Those usually precede a viral illness for me.  Not sure why, but right before I feel punk for a couple days I will have my best workouts.

For you, though, I'm sure it's just a sign of being a beast.  

Matt



2013-12-21 7:23 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by brigby1

(Nicole, nothing to see here)

Sufferfest's ISLAGIATT, near 2 hrs hitting 308 NP overall. 365 on the 8' interval (~1:30 in).

308 NP is that Newton Power? 8 minute intervals?

NP: Normalized Power

The video has 15', 20', 20' intervals done somewhere in the 90's as a % of FTP, then the (really) hard 8', then 7:30 attacking that's all over the place. Various recovery intervals between each. The entire thing is ~1 hr 56' depending how fast you get on the bike from starting the vid. I really like this one.  A good, solid warm-up and into a lot of strong work right where I like to go at, kind of on the aggressive end of sweet spot.

Ben, do you go into something like that with a target power in mind for those intervals or just a range and whatever you hit, you hit?

I don't really have a specific target for the overall, but since I'm getting more familiar with this ride I'll have an idea of about where it'll be. Along with what TSS will be. I'm still more mindful of what's going on in the intervals. I try not to place too much emphasis on the overall even though I do look at it. Helps to make sure I do the intervals where they're supposed to be. Warm-up and cool-down can vary considerably for me. Sometimes I'm up to speed rather quickly, but others I need more time. That variation is enough that intervals (and recovery) could be altered noticeably to compensate. That will affect my ability to execute both this workout and also anything in the next 2-3 days or so.

2013-12-21 7:38 PM
in reply to: 0

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by BrotherTri Thanks Marc. Most (97%) of my CT rides are flat and most (85%'ish) of my outside rides are up hills. Makes me wounder.....

Love what this faux British autocorrect has been doing to your posts lately. 

What do you rides look like when you say "flat"? For my harder rides, I generally have pretty good size intervals in them. Like 20' or bigger very often. And I tend to hit the intervals right about or just over 90%. With everything going on at this time of year, I cut out some of the workouts. Both not quite as often and a little less time, but I'm also pushing a few % harder. When things calm down after the holidays, I'll go back to bigger, but a bit less intensity.

Do know that I am about 180 and 34, though I'll be aging up next year (Hi Arend!)



Edited by brigby1 2013-12-21 7:41 PM
2013-12-21 7:40 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by axteraa

Ever have one of those long runs where your pace is way faster than normal?  Today I had a 75 min run (so not terribly long) and it was just supposed to be a steady easy paced run.  Usually I would do something like this in the 5:10-5:15/km average pace range - on a good day maybe 5:05.  For some reason today's run was at a 4:45/km pace and felt really easy.  I could have kept going at that effort for quite a while.

No idea where it came from.  I was even questioning my watch thinking maybe the GPS was going haywire.  I mapped it out on mapmyrun after and it was right on for distance.  I'm sure I'll be back to reality on my next run.

Those usually precede a viral illness for me.  Not sure why, but right before I feel punk for a couple days I will have my best workouts.

For you, though, I'm sure it's just a sign of being a beast.  

Matt

Once in awhile, yes, though it hasn't preceded sickness for me.  These are fun days, but have to be careful not to get carried away or I'll be feeling it over the next couple days.

2013-12-21 8:26 PM
in reply to: axteraa

Subject: RE: SBR Utopia Season II - OPEN

Originally posted by axteraa

Ever have one of those long runs where your pace is way faster than normal?  Today I had a 75 min run (so not terribly long) and it was just supposed to be a steady easy paced run.  Usually I would do something like this in the 5:10-5:15/km average pace range - on a good day maybe 5:05.  For some reason today's run was at a 4:45/km pace and felt really easy.  I could have kept going at that effort for quite a while.

No idea where it came from.  I was even questioning my watch thinking maybe the GPS was going haywire.  I mapped it out on mapmyrun after and it was right on for distance.  I'm sure I'll be back to reality on my next run.

I had one run like that...sometime before Honu 70.3.  I remember it was the first time I ever did a training run under 8:00 flat...let alone one that was nearly 14 miles long.  I was negative splitting as well.  It wasn't quite an "easy run," but I didn't feel like I was racing it either.  It didn't show up at Honu though...LOL. 

On a more bike related note...my legs did feel a lot better on today's ride.  I think the training stress from that monster ride I did 2.5 weeks ago is finally transferring from fatigue to fitness.  Right about on cue from my experience.  Usually after a big ride/week, I'll feel a bump about 3 weeks later.  Something I'm keeping in mind for planning my training.  This is the sort of thing training with power allows me to look back on for the past 3.5 years with the PMC.

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