Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club (Page 15)

It's because those other things are canned plans for a variety of people. They drop the mileage/intensity down in that week to make sure you get some recovery and allow for the adaptations to sink in without building up too much at once. It'd be ridiculously hard to design a several month schedule ahead of time without that. Daniels takes care of that by extending out the time at a particular VDOT and/or weekly mileage total instead. This is how you recover and adapt to the load. The next increase doesn't come until you're ready. This requires requires a bit more thinking and awareness than the up 3 down 1 approach. 

Just bumping this 

 I love the contrast in my "feelings-based" description and your more technical explanation.

Help me out here...where?

I was specifically looking at one of the marathon plans, so I apologize. But I stand by Ben and my comments above.

Here is what I was talking about:

Got it...thanks! 

I'm curious if anyone has any feedback regarding shoes.

JD states that, "A very light shoe with poor cushioning might be a relatively "costly" shoe."

How do we define costly?

Is it just specific to injury?

I was trying to determine what shoe to wear for my next marathon. Would you guys agree that one should race in the lightest shoe that they can race in without injury?

I have raced 3 marathons at this point, all in a racing flat. I didn't have any injuries. But I guess I just don't know if that is the only indicator I should be looking at. Perhaps I would be better suited at that distance, in a shoe that has a little more cushioning? I just don't know.

I tried asking this question in TT a while back and got nothin'

Have you seen this? http://runsmartproject.com/coaching/2012/02/06/how-much-does-shoe-w...

http://runsmartproject.com/coaching/2012/02/06/how-much-does-shoe-weight-affect-performance/

Sorry, relinking, as I think it might address your question (but copying below too). It looks like there is a point where the lightness becomes a detriment because of the lack of shock absorption.

Question:  How much does shoe weight affect performance?

Dr. Jack Daniels: As a matter of fact I did the original research on shoe-weight factor, when I was working for Nike in the early 1980s and our research was presented at the World Congress of Sports Medicine in Vienna in the early 1980s. We found adding 100 grams to the shoe increased the aerobic demand of running by 1%. Now 100 grams is about 3.5274 ounces, so each ounce changes the cost of running about 0.2835% (1/3.5274= 0.2835). If you can run a mile in 5:40, that is going 284 meters per minute and that speed of running typically coasts about 55.55 ml O2 per Kg body weight per minute.  1 less ounce will change the cost to about 55.7075 (from 55.55 above) and that VO2 will be associated with a running speed of 284.7 m/min and a mile time of 5:39.17, so about .83 seconds for a mile, per ounce less weight. 

NOW, that research involved running in the exact same pairs of shoes with little lead weights inserted into a sleeve sewed onto the sides of the shoe (at the point of center of mass of the shoe so it wouldn’t change the toe or heel drop any). This allowed us to test WEIGHT ADJUSTMENT ONLY. When we tested the aerobic demand of different shoes of different weights, then we found a different story. Basically, as shoe weight went lighter the cost also dropped some, but when the shoe weight went too light, then the cost went up because there was getting to be less midsole cushioning and the runner’s muscles had to start absorbing more landing shock and that costs more energy. It depends on the surface on which you are running. A nice soft artificial track will itself absorb some landing shock so the shoes don’t need to do that for you, but on a street, you need some cushioning and that adds a little weight to the shoe, whereas reducing weight too far actually increases the cost of running, as does the material used in shoe design.

Thank you. That is fantastic and right inline with what I was asking.

Hmm. 

So I wonder, how do we make that call? 

I wonder if you could talk to your people at Brooks and test a few pairs on some longish runs.  How many 18-22 milers do you do leading up to your race? 

That might be a completely ridiculous idea. 

Obviously these would have to be shoes you would be considering anyway and would have already broken them in a bit on shorter runs.

I don't think it's necessarily ridiculous... I just don't know what variables to look for because as we all know, one 18-22 miler can go much better than another for a WIDE variety of reasons. I feel like it would be extremely difficult to isolate whether a shoe's cushioning is absorbing enough shock. But I certainly could be wrong.

As far as Brooks goes, I am giving them feedback for an ongoing project that has nothing to do with this subject. If there was some spare time and I felt comfortable asking I absolutely would, but I wouldn't want to be overstepping (hehe) as I am helping them with a project,  not vice versa. 

RE: shoes

I made a very gradual movement towards lighter racing shoes.  I've done a full marathon and raced almost all of my 3rd tri season wearing the KSwiss Kruuz (6.5 oz).

Eventually though, I moved to Pearl Izumi.  I found that I liked having a little bit of padding in my shoe.  Running with the KRuuz left my legs feeling really beat up after some races.  In my second season I wore the Zoot TT Ultra 5.0, and I loved that shoe.  The Pearl Izumi Emotion N1 racer is the closest match to the Zoots that I could find locally.

JD covers this too, but I believe there's such a thing as too minimalist of a shoe as well as too much of a shoe, and I think that depends on the person.

Yes but how do we determine this?

I mean, your legs are inherently going to be a little beat up after a marathon. So, how do we decide what is too much?

For me, it's like falling in love.  You just know "the one" that is right for you.

Originally posted by Asalzwed Shyte, now you guys are getting all touchy-feely? I thought that was my job! 

I'm not sure of how to do it better than trying to run in a couple pairs of shoes for awhile and see how things work out. Basically feel them out for awhile. And I have no problem with that. 

Should the guy in the $5,000 suit ...

I had to lookup the RC5000's.  They make my racing flats look like combat boots.  As soon as I PR my 5k I'm getting a pair. I gotta earn something like that.

Also, best of luck to you at the XC race Saturday.  I had planned to swing by and give you some cowbell but looks like I'm escorting my son on his first 5k.