BT Development Mentor Program Archives » Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009 Rss Feed  
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2008-12-05 4:55 AM
in reply to: #1839216

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Master
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Lafayette, IN
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Puppetmaster - 2008-12-04 5:00 PM

Evening all

I have been to sick to ride.  I made to though week 2, Q1 & Q2 but crashed after that.  I tried to do Q3, but after a few minutes I was coughing so hard...well it was messy.

Man, you, me, Jorge!  I didn't think we would be contagious over the internet just because we are doing the same programSmile  I got  a cold, but it seemed to be a bad one and hung on for a full week despite throwing every remedy I could at it.  I am still somewhat congested, but I am getting back on the bike today.

Good luck, I will post my test data if there is anything surprising.



Edited by Gregkl 2008-12-05 4:56 AM


2008-12-05 10:28 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

Hello Gang,

I am still battling a chest cold so my training is been on hold for a week now but I am hoping by Monday I can get back on the horse (or saddle) and do my testing!

How are you guys doing? Did you all complete the tests? Last night it occurred to me that I should have included on the testing a note for those training by HR you to record your speed on the trainer (after setting it up correctly) to also have a point to compare after we complete the winter plan. For those training with power it is very straight forward because we know your initial FTP and we can compare it later but for those training by HR/RPE the LTHR wont change much, what will change is the amount of power you can generate at a given HR.

With that info we can then actually quantify on avg. how much each of you improved; if you happened to have that info please share it with me, you can email it to [email protected], if you don’t have it I’ll set up a reminder for next text!

Keep on training people and if your motivation is not the best just remember to SUAT! (Shut Up And Train )

2008-12-05 11:31 AM
in reply to: #1840172

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Champion
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the colony texas
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

I still have the 5 min test to do either tonight or this weekend...  One thing I've noticed is that if I have the tv on just as background noise I still find myself drifting my attention to the game instead of focusing on what I should be doing.. only having the radio on is much better for me

2008-12-05 11:44 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Master
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Utah
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
I am another member of the "behind a week" group. I don't have a good excuse, though. Looks like it's time for me to SUAT! Week two is on tap for me this weekend. i hope to do the testng next week.
2008-12-05 11:54 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Champion
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Schwamalamadingdong!
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
i'm going to do my LT test tonight after my violin lesson. Then tomorrow i will ship my HRM away for repair. i'll be without it for 10-14 days. What should i do in the meantime?
2008-12-05 12:00 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Extreme Veteran
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Ottawa, Ontario
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

I have done the first test and it went well, all hurting aside, but I botched the 5 min test last night.  My Garmin was reading really eratically and after about 10 minutes I decided that the  battery in the cadence/speed sensor must be dying.  I decided to scrub the workout (did another 10 min just for fun) to keep myself in good shape to do the test tonight.

When I downloaded the data from my watch I realized that my problem was forgetting to turn off the GPS receiver - Arghhh!!!

This is the results of the 20 min test Tues night:

I think the wattage shown is high by about 20 watts - this wattage is calculated using a watts/kph formula for a CycleOps Fluid2 and I am still working out some bugs with the software.  It gives me an average of 295 watts over the 20 minutes and I calculated an average of 278 by hand.  It is still only an approximate wattage using this method, but it does give me some consistent numbers for tracking my progress.

David



Edited by herridge 2008-12-05 12:02 PM


2008-12-05 12:15 PM
in reply to: #1792702

Expert
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Salisbury
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

I did the 5 min. test this morning but still don't know the results (I started off way too hard so it'll be skewed) I'll get better but I've only ever done a 20 minute test and used that for my FTP.

With that said, where do I find your formula for determining my FTP? Or do you just use teh 20 min * .95 like I do?  Where does the 5 min test come into play?

I looked on this thread and on you blog but I don't see it.  I could be blind though

2008-12-05 2:03 PM
in reply to: #1840376

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Rencor - 2008-12-05 12:15 PM

I did the 5 min. test this morning but still don't know the results (I started off way too hard so it'll be skewed) I'll get better but I've only ever done a 20 minute test and used that for my FTP.

With that said, where do I find your formula for determining my FTP? Or do you just use teh 20 min * .95 like I do?  Where does the 5 min test come into play?

I looked on this thread and on you blog but I don't see it.  I could be blind though

go here: http://jorgepbmcoaching.blogspot.com/2008/11/how-to-calculate-your-critical-power.html
2008-12-05 2:03 PM
in reply to: #1840328

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
TheSchwamm - 2008-12-05 11:54 AM i'm going to do my LT test tonight after my violin lesson. Then tomorrow i will ship my HRM away for repair. i'll be without it for 10-14 days. What should i do in the meantime?
use RPE
2008-12-05 2:11 PM
in reply to: #1840346

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
herridge - 2008-12-05 12:00 PM

good stuff. This chart for the 20 in test clearly indicates why power tend to be a better way to measure current effort (strain) than HR: as you can see you HR took almost 5 min to get around the point it ended up averaging for the total effort. Also even when you started out stronger (probably a bit too much but you'll learn as you do more tests) and you avg the highest power during the 1st half (min 15 to 25) your HR avg was lower, and on the 2nd half (min 25 to 35) when your power in fact decreased your HR kept on creeping up. Anyway, it is just a nice visual for everyone

In term of your power as soon as you work out the bugs and get your avg for the 20 and the 5 min (when you do it) you can use it to calculate your FTP. it doesnt matter if it is off some watts, as long as you keep on using the same method (trainer, etc) it will work for you to make your sessions more efficient

2008-12-05 3:03 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Master
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Utah
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Week 2 Q1 done. Have I thanked you today, Jorge?  


2008-12-05 5:54 PM
in reply to: #1840739

Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

Evening al

I was sick so I restarted week 2 last night.  I thought screw the HRM I wil leave it on the treadmill.  I just used my trainer power meter.  Well about 20 minutes into it my magnet slipped loose and I lost my PM.  I kept with it and peddle my off.  I got done and my was wiped.  Today I could feel it going up the stairs and conveyor systems.  It hurt evey place on my legs.

I really think that looking back: my HRM and my power meter is causing me to loose something.  The just pushing it factor is better.  I was so focused on watching the meters I was forgeting about legs and bike and trying to kick . 

later Joe



Edited by Puppetmaster 2008-12-06 10:21 AM
2008-12-05 9:09 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Champion
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Schwamalamadingdong!
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Well, i did the LT test. Long, hard workouts are almost a religious experience for me. i'm weird.
2008-12-05 10:22 PM
in reply to: #1840172

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Lethbridge, Alberta
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Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
JorgeM - 2008-12-05 9:28 AM

...

How are you guys doing? Did you all complete the tests?

...


I did the 5 minute test tonight, and I'm glad to have it behind me. The final CP60 value came out to almost exactly the guessed power that I've been using already.

I was surprised to find my W/kg numbers for 5 minutes and 60 minutes actually worked out to be on the next lines to each other in that chart of Coggan's that I linked to a few pages back. Maybe he does know what he's talking about.
2008-12-06 7:09 AM
in reply to: #1792702

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Elite
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Quebec, Canada
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

Anyone here with a fortius or a I-Magic? Lately, before I did the first power test, I was using 240 watts as my estimated power output. What I was doing was to create a new workout in catalyst for power/time. So I was doing something like, ride at 240 for 5 min then add a new route etc etc

This week when I made the power test I used a slope/time track instead of watts/time since I wanted to output as high as possible. I have no idea why but my average was under 200 for the 20 min test. But when I use watts/time I can keep riding at 240 and it's not that hard. Is there something I am missing here with the Tacx? 

Thank you in advance

2008-12-06 11:41 AM
in reply to: #1841449

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Master
1222
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Lafayette, IN
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
QUOTE]JorgeM - 2008-12-05 9:28 AM

...

How are you guys doing? Did you all complete the tests?

I am behind, but hopefully will do the test next weekend.  I finally got back on the plan since my cold over the Thankgiving holidays. 



Edited by Gregkl 2008-12-06 11:41 AM


2008-12-06 12:53 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Master
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NJ
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
Im holding off on the test till next week - my HRM has a new battery in it but the watch part has gone missing and I went to get a cadence computer at the LBS but it was $140 and that's kinda out of the budget at the moment so Im just going RPE right now and have no way of tracking any kind of data for the test. - still getting the time in so that's important. Happy riding, folks!
2008-12-06 8:59 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Elite
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Evergreen, CO
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009

I thought I missed something when I read about a 5 minute test, but realized that's for the power group.  Good

Did the 30 min hr test and thought my #s seemed really low, but I did the computations and did week 3 wo #2 following the #s and it seems right.  Tried to push a little to test the zones and had to back off to be able to finish. 

Thanks again for this program Jorge!  Gotta go get on my trainer now for wo #3 -- I have lots of room for improvement this winter.

2008-12-07 2:07 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
2008-12-07 2:09 PM
in reply to: #1792702

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
I finally was able to start training again today after a nasty chest cold which puts me back 2 weeks. I will be picking up the plan on week 2 and go from there. Great Job to those who have been following the plan; CONSISTENCY is the key for you imporve over the total 14 week program so stay focus, keep on training and fire away with any questions!
2008-12-07 2:10 PM
in reply to: #1841587

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Coach
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Boston, MA
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
rlejeune - 2008-12-06 7:09 AM

Anyone here with a fortius or a I-Magic? Lately, before I did the first power test, I was using 240 watts as my estimated power output. What I was doing was to create a new workout in catalyst for power/time. So I was doing something like, ride at 240 for 5 min then add a new route etc etc

This week when I made the power test I used a slope/time track instead of watts/time since I wanted to output as high as possible. I have no idea why but my average was under 200 for the 20 min test. But when I use watts/time I can keep riding at 240 and it's not that hard. Is there something I am missing here with the Tacx? 

Thank you in advance

Unfortunately I am not familiar with that trainer, but contact them maybe they can help you!


2008-12-07 2:21 PM
in reply to: #1838271

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Elite
3779
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Ontario
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
GoFaster - 2008-12-04 10:21 AM

Jorge,

I know that in some of the previous posts people had asked about cadence, and you'd answered that we shold each ride at a cadence with which we feel comfortable.  For me that has typically been around the 90 mark, which everyone seems to always refer to.  So I did a little test with the Q2 workout this morning, based on the two interval sets.  I had to play around with the gearing a bit to do this, but here are the results.

First set - Cadence 86, Power 227, Speed 31, HR 158

Second set - Cadence 92, Power 224.6, Speed 30.8, HR 159

I think my legs felt the first set more so than the second, but it may also be that I was better warmed up by the second set.  Is there a way to determine what our optimal cadence should actually be?  And please correct me if I'm wrong - but if we learn to push a bigger gear (even at a lower cadence) will it make us a stronger cyclist?

Questions that I hope help everyone.  And once again, thanks for all the great feedack Jorge (I promise to ask fewer questions going forward). Wink

Sorry to ask again Jorge - but any thoughts on my previous post?  Thanks.

2008-12-07 2:33 PM
in reply to: #1841587

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Elite
3779
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Ontario
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
rlejeune - 2008-12-06 8:09 AM

Anyone here with a fortius or a I-Magic? Lately, before I did the first power test, I was using 240 watts as my estimated power output. What I was doing was to create a new workout in catalyst for power/time. So I was doing something like, ride at 240 for 5 min then add a new route etc etc

This week when I made the power test I used a slope/time track instead of watts/time since I wanted to output as high as possible. I have no idea why but my average was under 200 for the 20 min test. But when I use watts/time I can keep riding at 240 and it's not that hard. Is there something I am missing here with the Tacx? 

Thank you in advance

Robert - I'm also riding an i-magic.  I did my first test based on power, but the subsequent workputs I've done on slope/time.  I had no noticeable difference for my power output between the two (270 based on power, 273 based on slope).

One thing I do notice is that if my slope is below 0.8 then I'm in virtual speed while riding in Catalyst, I take this to mean that my watts are not accurate either.  So, to compensate I ride at 0.8 slope for the easy parts (55-65%), bump it to 1.0 for the medium intensity settings, and up to 1.2 for the tougher sessions.  This way I avoid virtual speed and work for the power settings I expect to hit.

Hope this helps.

2008-12-07 2:39 PM
in reply to: #1840172

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Elite
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Ontario
Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
JorgeM - 2008-12-05 11:28 AM

How are you guys doing? Did you all complete the tests?

Tests are complete and I got a 261 FT (as opposed to 259 this first time round).  So at least I know I'm consistent and what to compare against.  On to week 4!

2008-12-07 7:07 PM
in reply to: #1842615

Subject: RE: Increase your Cycling Power over the winter = Faster times on 2009
GoFaster - 2008-12-07 2:21 PM
GoFaster - 2008-12-04 10:21 AM

Jorge,

I know that in some of the previous posts people had asked about cadence, and you'd answered that we shold each ride at a cadence with which we feel comfortable.  For me that has typically been around the 90 mark, which everyone seems to always refer to.  So I did a little test with the Q2 workout this morning, based on the two interval sets.  I had to play around with the gearing a bit to do this, but here are the results.

First set - Cadence 86, Power 227, Speed 31, HR 158

Second set - Cadence 92, Power 224.6, Speed 30.8, HR 159

I think my legs felt the first set more so than the second, but it may also be that I was better warmed up by the second set.  Is there a way to determine what our optimal cadence should actually be?  And please correct me if I'm wrong - but if we learn to push a bigger gear (even at a lower cadence) will it make us a stronger cyclist?

Questions that I hope help everyone.  And once again, thanks for all the great feedack Jorge (I promise to ask fewer questions going forward). Wink

Sorry to ask again Jorge - but any thoughts on my previous post?  Thanks.

Gofaster, what kind of gear are you pulling?  I am riding in the mid 220 range and am getting right around 18mph for speed.  I am pulling a 42/15 in this range.

Joe

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