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2013-11-14 12:09 PM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by dtoce
Originally posted by Asalzwed Let me start with the big picture. I want to do more large scale periodization so, fast track stuff in the summer (5K focus) for "speed"  then XC in the fall for "strength" then a block of training for endurance in the winter for a spring marathon. I would plan to take time off between each season (1-2 weeks depending on what I would need.)

Now, for the upcoming marathon cycle I plan on doing 18 weeks. I'll be coming into it with a great base. Typically in the 70 MPW range for non race weeks and 50-ish for race weeks. We'll go ahead and call it 60 MPW coming in.

Quality: I am kind of at the whim of my coach for quality, but he will take us through (pretty much a Daniel's cycle) where we do some form of I and Rs on our Q1 and then some form of a T for our Q2. Slowly that progresses and we do less stressing of V02 max and a lot more things geared towards T. Sometimes a week will happen where Q1 is T and Q2 is a long run with a block of M pace. Other than the M pace long runs, I generally always double up Q2 on a Saturday and the long run on a Sunday. 

Long Runs: will more or less be 16, 18, 20 because that is what has worked in the past. But I am flexible on this. And don't worry. I don't get too caught up in the numbers. If I am on tough terrain I am totally alright with defaulting to time. Or if I finish at 21.87999 miles I won't flip my lid. Also, as I mentioned above, some long runs (usually on the shorter 16 mile side) will have a block of M pace. That block gets bigger as the plan progresses. Race simulation (nutrition/clothing etc. is usually integrated in these as the race approaches)

Everything Else: will pretty much be easy. I try and change up the terrain and do a slower recovery type pace when needed. I'll try and do at least one of these in the 9-13 mile range.

Mileage: will probably go from 70-80/90? Not sure yet. I think I just have to play that by ear. Open to input.

 

This is all high level right now. Nothing is set in stone.

Let me know what you think.

 

You will just need to make sure you listen to your body during training and take extra time if necessary, for any minor niggles. Injuries will set you back from the plan significantly. Also, a few scheduled cutback weeks should be included. I advise and take one q4-6wks, depending on life's pressures, but they should be semi-planned. There will be times when it calls for a harder workout, but you just don't have it. The most likely reason is that you are incompletely recovered. Make that an easy day, if it happens.

M pace runs during 16 milers really let you practice race pace and let you know how you will handle race day. It is a difficult run and if you do big blocks of M running during LR's, try to adjust intensity as needed, getting the biggest bang for your training buck. These also get your nutrition dialed in so it should be automatic. Make most of the medLR's and LR's on the easy side at first. During one of my previous M training blocks, I did LR's that were: E, then w MP, then fast finish, then progression. Only after 4 LR's did I push the distance up.

So, I only went up 2-3miles on my LR q 5wks, since I tried to take a cutback week each month. I never added intensity and distance together on a single run/workout or in total. You will have to look at the schedule and decide how you will make an 18 wk schedule work. I'd consider using a Pfitz model and blend it with JD's intensity progression and periodization, unless you are going to go totally with your coach. Lastly, you'll have to decide whether to do a 2 or 3 week taper and also decide on the timing of your last LR. Decisions, decisions... Let's see what others say...

If there is one thing I don't worry too much about it's listening to my body. I have that down pretty well.

I love your idea of different types of long runs with MP, fast finish and progression. I am definitely going to integrate this into my plan. THANKS

Totally planned on the JD/Pfitz blend. I sorta did that last time around only with pretty much just 1 day of quality. I feel really good with 2 days now at 70 MPW and don't see any issues maintainng that through 90. As I said, we will see though. I don't see any issues even in getting higher MPW but I don't want to sacrifice quality with mileage for mileage sake as the ROI becomes less at less at those kinds of numbers.

AS for the taper, I find I prefer it to be shorter (2 weeks



2013-11-14 2:29 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

2013-11-14 3:24 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

2013-11-14 3:28 PM
in reply to: 0

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 



Edited by Asalzwed 2013-11-14 3:28 PM
2013-11-14 3:33 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

Salty:  "I have a question!"  /end thread> 

2013-11-14 3:33 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I'm sorry hun.  I read it, but I don't feel qualified to answer your questions.  I'll go make a lame attempt and bump it so that one of the coaches or someone more knowldegable can tell me I'm wrong and give you some advice.  Here goes.



2013-11-14 3:34 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

Salty:  "I have a question!"  /end thread> 

Seriously. Every effing time. It's really frustrating. So, thanks to those of you who help out in here anyhoo.

2013-11-14 3:37 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I read it.  What you're looking for is a taper that may work for your "A" race, if I'm reading correctly.  I suggested my taper schedule for my 10K, which you can try and adjust according depending on how you do. 

How do you normally feel before these other races?  Tired in any way?  When do you feel the race start to become difficult?

2013-11-14 3:39 PM
in reply to: switch

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I'm sorry hun.  I read it, but I don't feel qualified to answer your questions.  I'll go make a lame attempt and bump it so that one of the coaches or someone more knowldegable can tell me I'm wrong and give you some advice.  Here goes.

Bump done...and I rephrased the question (I think).

2013-11-14 3:47 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I'm sorry hun.  I read it, but I don't feel qualified to answer your questions.  I'll go make a lame attempt and bump it so that one of the coaches or someone more knowldegable can tell me I'm wrong and give you some advice.  Here goes.

Bump done...and I rephrased the question (I think).

Haha, THanks guys. Was it unclear to start with? I sometimes feel like I might not be clear but I would prefer if people would just ask for clarification. Generally there is a reason for why I word things a certain way. But it might not always come across how I intend. 

2013-11-14 3:50 PM
in reply to: msteiner

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I read it.  What you're looking for is a taper that may work for your "A" race, if I'm reading correctly.  I suggested my taper schedule for my 10K, which you can try and adjust according depending on how you do. 

How do you normally feel before these other races?  Tired in any way?  When do you feel the race start to become difficult?

I think that a taper is quite specific to a person, like most things in training. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me. 

I have come into most of my other races with about 45-50 miles on my legs (plus the cumulative fatigue) so yeah, my legs are tired coming into the race. But that is to be expected when training through.

The race is difficult from the get-go. It's very high intensity.



2013-11-14 3:53 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I read it.  What you're looking for is a taper that may work for your "A" race, if I'm reading correctly.  I suggested my taper schedule for my 10K, which you can try and adjust according depending on how you do. 

How do you normally feel before these other races?  Tired in any way?  When do you feel the race start to become difficult?

I think that a taper is quite specific to a person, like most things in training. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me. 

I have come into most of my other races with about 45-50 miles on my legs (plus the cumulative fatigue) so yeah, my legs are tired coming into the race. But that is to be expected when training through.

The race is difficult from the get-go. It's very high intensity.

And just food for thought on posting on there on TT...there aren't many folks out there that could relate to the type of weekly mileage or race frequency you're currently going through, much less be qualified to give you sound advice.

2013-11-14 3:59 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I read it.  What you're looking for is a taper that may work for your "A" race, if I'm reading correctly.  I suggested my taper schedule for my 10K, which you can try and adjust according depending on how you do. 

How do you normally feel before these other races?  Tired in any way?  When do you feel the race start to become difficult?

I think that a taper is quite specific to a person, like most things in training. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me. 

I have come into most of my other races with about 45-50 miles on my legs (plus the cumulative fatigue) so yeah, my legs are tired coming into the race. But that is to be expected when training through.

The race is difficult from the get-go. It's very high intensity.

Sure,  however people will only have what works for them as a suggestion for taper.  You never know what works for you until you try.

Have you had a recovery week leading up to any of these races?  In my training plan, Fitzgerald has me in a recovery week leading up to any of the races I run.

 

2013-11-14 3:59 PM
in reply to: jmhpsu93

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I read it.  What you're looking for is a taper that may work for your "A" race, if I'm reading correctly.  I suggested my taper schedule for my 10K, which you can try and adjust according depending on how you do. 

How do you normally feel before these other races?  Tired in any way?  When do you feel the race start to become difficult?

I think that a taper is quite specific to a person, like most things in training. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me. 

I have come into most of my other races with about 45-50 miles on my legs (plus the cumulative fatigue) so yeah, my legs are tired coming into the race. But that is to be expected when training through.

The race is difficult from the get-go. It's very high intensity.

And just food for thought on posting on there on TT...there aren't many folks out there that could relate to the type of weekly mileage or race frequency you're currently going through, much less be qualified to give you sound advice.

Perhaps.

2013-11-14 4:03 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I read it.  What you're looking for is a taper that may work for your "A" race, if I'm reading correctly.  I suggested my taper schedule for my 10K, which you can try and adjust according depending on how you do. 

How do you normally feel before these other races?  Tired in any way?  When do you feel the race start to become difficult?

I think that a taper is quite specific to a person, like most things in training. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me. 

I have come into most of my other races with about 45-50 miles on my legs (plus the cumulative fatigue) so yeah, my legs are tired coming into the race. But that is to be expected when training through.

The race is difficult from the get-go. It's very high intensity.

And just food for thought on posting on there on TT...there aren't many folks out there that could relate to the type of weekly mileage or race frequency you're currently going through, much less be qualified to give you sound advice.

Perhaps.

Perhaps???  Hahahahahahaha!

2013-11-14 5:07 PM
in reply to: switch

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I read it.  What you're looking for is a taper that may work for your "A" race, if I'm reading correctly.  I suggested my taper schedule for my 10K, which you can try and adjust according depending on how you do. 

How do you normally feel before these other races?  Tired in any way?  When do you feel the race start to become difficult?

I think that a taper is quite specific to a person, like most things in training. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me. 

I have come into most of my other races with about 45-50 miles on my legs (plus the cumulative fatigue) so yeah, my legs are tired coming into the race. But that is to be expected when training through.

The race is difficult from the get-go. It's very high intensity.

And just food for thought on posting on there on TT...there aren't many folks out there that could relate to the type of weekly mileage or race frequency you're currently going through, much less be qualified to give you sound advice.

Perhaps.

Perhaps???  Hahahahahahaha!

Well. I don't necessarily agree. I think there are plenty of people who have a much more technical understanding of exercise science than I do on this site. You don't need to be doing high mileage to understand how it affects ones body (if you have that higher level of understanding.)

 

If that makes sense.



2013-11-14 5:16 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by switch

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by jmhpsu93

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Additionally, if anyone cares to answer my taper question in the TT thread, it would be helpful. Or yet again one of my threads will fall flat in there: HELP!

My taper schedule seemed to work pretty well for my 10K, if you're wanting to rest the week of.

That's not really what I am asking though. Did you go to the thread/was it unclear? 

I read it.  What you're looking for is a taper that may work for your "A" race, if I'm reading correctly.  I suggested my taper schedule for my 10K, which you can try and adjust according depending on how you do. 

How do you normally feel before these other races?  Tired in any way?  When do you feel the race start to become difficult?

I think that a taper is quite specific to a person, like most things in training. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me. 

I have come into most of my other races with about 45-50 miles on my legs (plus the cumulative fatigue) so yeah, my legs are tired coming into the race. But that is to be expected when training through.

The race is difficult from the get-go. It's very high intensity.

And just food for thought on posting on there on TT...there aren't many folks out there that could relate to the type of weekly mileage or race frequency you're currently going through, much less be qualified to give you sound advice.

Perhaps.

Perhaps???  Hahahahahahaha!

Well. I don't necessarily agree. I think there are plenty of people who have a much more technical understanding of exercise science than I do on this site. You don't need to be doing high mileage to understand how it affects ones body (if you have that higher level of understanding.)

 

If that makes sense.

It totally makes sense:)  I don't understand the lack of those responses either.

2013-11-14 5:23 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Well. I don't necessarily agree. I think there are plenty of people who have a much more technical understanding of exercise science than I do on this site. You don't need to be doing high mileage to understand how it affects ones body (if you have that higher level of understanding.)

 

If that makes sense.

I gave you an answer but it's not based on any exercise science so probably not that helpful.  

2013-11-14 5:33 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Seattle
Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

Originally posted by axteraa

Originally posted by Asalzwed

Well. I don't necessarily agree. I think there are plenty of people who have a much more technical understanding of exercise science than I do on this site. You don't need to be doing high mileage to understand how it affects ones body (if you have that higher level of understanding.)

 

If that makes sense.

I gave you an answer but it's not based on any exercise science so probably not that helpful.  

Well, I mean, it's always nice to hear what Canadians have to say about things, too.  

2013-11-14 5:34 PM
in reply to: Asalzwed

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

I know, eh??

2013-11-14 6:39 PM
in reply to: axteraa

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club
Adrienne
I gave you my official answer in your TT thread.

BTW, if we can't see your log (since it's private), there will be less to actually comment on as it's happening


2013-11-15 7:49 AM
in reply to: dtoce

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

I just haven't really had much of a chance to think about it as well as I'd like. And for some reason, I honestly didn't even see the post until after it was pointed out. I tend to go a lot by feel leading into a race and know that I'll do fairly well with the general idea of load reduction and just a bit of sharpening in there.

I've had the same trouble when asking questions at times. Almost no one will answer except one time, but that wasn't really a training question. Only a few thoughts why, but not really sure about any of them.

2013-11-15 8:19 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

To be fair, BT activity has been down as a whole.  

2013-11-15 9:04 AM
in reply to: msteiner

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

True, but my thinking goes back more than a year.

2013-11-22 10:19 AM
in reply to: brigby1

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Subject: RE: Sept 15-Oct 15 "Daniel's Running Formula" Book Club

I'm trying to incorporate JD's principles and 5K to 15K training plan into my tri schedule for next year.  Phase 1 is pretty easy to do...lots of 'E' running.  The issue is when quality is introduced in Phase 2.  The plan in the book starts you at 2.5 miles of 'R' pace and 5 miles at 'T' pace in the first two Q workouts, which runs out to a 50 mpw (!!!!) if you follow JD's weekly limits on those types of runs.

I can easily scale them down to fit my total mpw for the week (which will be around 20 at that point), but should I just jump to max the first week in or scale it up a couple of weeks?  The two Qs would look like this:

Q1:  1 mile WU, 2x (2 x 200 w/ 200 recovery jogs, 1 x 400 w/ 400 recovery), 1 mile CD...4 miles total (1 mile @ R)

Q2:  2 mile WU, 2 miles 'T', 1 mile CD...5 miles total (2 miles @ T)

I'm at 20 mpw give or take right now, and would be comfortable throwing those two into a week at this point. 

I'd be concerned that would be a little intense not having done any intensity for about 9-10 weeks (accounting for my upcoming Transition phase, and subsequent rebuild through Phase 1).  The Q runs would be Tuesday morning and Thursday afternoon, if that makes any difference.

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'Open Water' is this triathlete’s nightmare because I have a fear of swimming in open water. Not because I can’t swim, but mostly because I can’t see what’s swimming with me in the water.
 
date : January 10, 2005
author : trithis
comments : 0
Club or group workouts are very motivating and soon you’ll start feeling like a triathlete, making you less likely to flake out.