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2015-01-27 1:08 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by ChrisM Gah. Back in the hole. Had hopes of a long run today. 7 minutes in it was clear the hammy's not done doing what it needs to. At least I am getting better at pulling the plug when things go badly. Moped at home for a bit, then pulled the big boy pants on and went out for a paddle (we have had whales hanging out for a few days, cool to see them from that vantage point) then off to the pool, 1k easy warmup then 1:00 aqua jog. turned out to be not such a bad day

Bummer.  Taking the long view, you'll be back at it soon enough, but it never feels that way in the moment.

That said, sounds like an otherwise stellar day - like the kind of day most people would remember for the balance of their life (whales from a kayak?!?).  Glad that part at least turned around. 

And my experience with aquajogging last winter for a strained hammy (continued intensity right after a HM did that one to me) was very similar to what Marc describes.  I will say that the long run did come back more quickly than if I just was doing cycling for the legs/engine (another rehab route I've taken in the past, including quite recently).  I hated most of the aquajogging, but it was effective for me.

Matt

Yeah, the whales were actually from a stand up board.   Didn't get too close, just enjoyed the view from probably 200 yds or so.  It was a bit of a circus out there (it was right outside the harbor, and there have been reports for days of a mama and baby humpback, so it was quite the scene), so I let others try to chase and get close, and I just hung out to see if they'd come to me   

Aqua jogging, wow, my glutes were INCREDIBLY sore after that.  Not sure if it means I am doing it right or not, but something was firing down there.  Found a pool with evening lap swim (oddly, where I am in southern california, there are not a whole lot of available public pools without paying masters fees), and plan on going 2-3 times this week at night.  

I might be looking at the same type of workouts soon.  My calf injury has continued to bother me so I had an MRI last week.  I'm doing my followup appointment today so we'll see what they recommend.  Or maybe I'll just be a swimmer for this season



2015-01-27 3:43 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by ChrisM Gah. Back in the hole. Had hopes of a long run today. 7 minutes in it was clear the hammy's not done doing what it needs to. At least I am getting better at pulling the plug when things go badly. Moped at home for a bit, then pulled the big boy pants on and went out for a paddle (we have had whales hanging out for a few days, cool to see them from that vantage point) then off to the pool, 1k easy warmup then 1:00 aqua jog. turned out to be not such a bad day

Bummer.  Taking the long view, you'll be back at it soon enough, but it never feels that way in the moment.

That said, sounds like an otherwise stellar day - like the kind of day most people would remember for the balance of their life (whales from a kayak?!?).  Glad that part at least turned around. 

And my experience with aquajogging last winter for a strained hammy (continued intensity right after a HM did that one to me) was very similar to what Marc describes.  I will say that the long run did come back more quickly than if I just was doing cycling for the legs/engine (another rehab route I've taken in the past, including quite recently).  I hated most of the aquajogging, but it was effective for me.

Matt

Yeah, the whales were actually from a stand up board.   Didn't get too close, just enjoyed the view from probably 200 yds or so.  It was a bit of a circus out there (it was right outside the harbor, and there have been reports for days of a mama and baby humpback, so it was quite the scene), so I let others try to chase and get close, and I just hung out to see if they'd come to me   

Aqua jogging, wow, my glutes were INCREDIBLY sore after that.  Not sure if it means I am doing it right or not, but something was firing down there.  Found a pool with evening lap swim (oddly, where I am in southern california, there are not a whole lot of available public pools without paying masters fees), and plan on going 2-3 times this week at night.  

I might be looking at the same type of workouts soon.  My calf injury has continued to bother me so I had an MRI last week.  I'm doing my followup appointment today so we'll see what they recommend.  Or maybe I'll just be a swimmer for this season

sending good thoughts, hope it's nothing major

I get to try the treadmill for a bit tonight, hopefully things hold up

2015-01-28 12:47 PM
in reply to: ChrisM

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Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by spudone

Originally posted by ChrisM

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by ChrisM Gah. Back in the hole. Had hopes of a long run today. 7 minutes in it was clear the hammy's not done doing what it needs to. At least I am getting better at pulling the plug when things go badly. Moped at home for a bit, then pulled the big boy pants on and went out for a paddle (we have had whales hanging out for a few days, cool to see them from that vantage point) then off to the pool, 1k easy warmup then 1:00 aqua jog. turned out to be not such a bad day

Bummer.  Taking the long view, you'll be back at it soon enough, but it never feels that way in the moment.

That said, sounds like an otherwise stellar day - like the kind of day most people would remember for the balance of their life (whales from a kayak?!?).  Glad that part at least turned around. 

And my experience with aquajogging last winter for a strained hammy (continued intensity right after a HM did that one to me) was very similar to what Marc describes.  I will say that the long run did come back more quickly than if I just was doing cycling for the legs/engine (another rehab route I've taken in the past, including quite recently).  I hated most of the aquajogging, but it was effective for me.

Matt

Yeah, the whales were actually from a stand up board.   Didn't get too close, just enjoyed the view from probably 200 yds or so.  It was a bit of a circus out there (it was right outside the harbor, and there have been reports for days of a mama and baby humpback, so it was quite the scene), so I let others try to chase and get close, and I just hung out to see if they'd come to me   

Aqua jogging, wow, my glutes were INCREDIBLY sore after that.  Not sure if it means I am doing it right or not, but something was firing down there.  Found a pool with evening lap swim (oddly, where I am in southern california, there are not a whole lot of available public pools without paying masters fees), and plan on going 2-3 times this week at night.  

I might be looking at the same type of workouts soon.  My calf injury has continued to bother me so I had an MRI last week.  I'm doing my followup appointment today so we'll see what they recommend.  Or maybe I'll just be a swimmer for this season

sending good thoughts, hope it's nothing major

I get to try the treadmill for a bit tonight, hopefully things hold up

Aaaaand?

MRI and recommendation?

How was the treadmill?

Matt

2015-01-28 12:57 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

Master
5557
50005002525
, California
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

They didn't see anything bad on the MRI, which is a mixed blessing, since I still don't know what to do about the pain.  My stepfather is a radiologist so I'll have him take a closer look.  Probably just physical therapy in the meantime.

2015-01-28 1:05 PM
in reply to: spudone

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Veteran
2842
200050010010010025
Austin, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by spudone

They didn't see anything bad on the MRI, which is a mixed blessing, since I still don't know what to do about the pain.  My stepfather is a radiologist so I'll have him take a closer look.  Probably just physical therapy in the meantime.

Ugh - the equivocal thing is a mind-#%$@.  Makes it tough to know how to treat it, but sounds like PT is a good plan for now.

Hope it comes around for you soon.

Matt

2015-01-28 1:30 PM
in reply to: mcmanusclan5

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by spudone

They didn't see anything bad on the MRI, which is a mixed blessing, since I still don't know what to do about the pain.  My stepfather is a radiologist so I'll have him take a closer look.  Probably just physical therapy in the meantime.

Ugh - the equivocal thing is a mind-#%$@.  Makes it tough to know how to treat it, but sounds like PT is a good plan for now.

Hope it comes around for you soon.

Matt

Uggg. Did this last year with shin splints. MRI and X-Rays never confirmed a thing. So is there really something wrong? Should I run? 

I feel your pain

I hope there's a resolution!



2015-01-28 1:36 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Ok update on my PowerTap G3. It is working fine now. I needed to replace the batter after the first 2 trainer rides. After I replaced the battier the PT was off by 70w compared to my CompuTrainer. My first 2 trainer rides the PT was spot on with the CT. So what I did next was; I removed and reinstalled the battier again (I did not replace it with a new one) then I put the hub back together. I then remover the PT from Garmin 910XT and let Garmin find it again. I started the 910XT, calibrated and it was good to go. I think the removing the PT from the Garmin 910XT is what did it. Whatever the problem was not sure but as long as the PT works consistently and accurately I’ll be happy.


I did post this on FB so my apologies. Todays workout was 10” WU, 7x30's max 30’s ri, then 4x8' @110% (FTP 280) with 2’ ri. Last set was tough and I lost focus on maintaining the watts as consistently as I could, but done. HR Avg 151, AP 252, NP 273, TSS 110. I seam to do better at shorter sets. I do struggle to hold any steady watts. Any tips on that other than erg mode?

Here is the Garmin link; http://connect.garmin.com/activity/684642964

I did load this into Golden Cheetah. The thing is I really have know idea how that data will help let alone what to look for. Any thoughts on that?
2015-01-28 1:42 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

James, how are you figuring the intervals again? The Garmin and Strava sites both seem to show 5 mile intervals, and use data from the PT?

2015-01-28 2:07 PM
in reply to: 0

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Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Ben, I am ride the 4x8' by time 8 min on with 2 min ri. 1st one started at 24:59 and ended 32:59.


EDIT

so
10' wu
7' max
8' recovery to build
40' 4x8
5' cd

70'


Edited by BrotherTri 2015-01-28 2:14 PM
2015-01-28 2:10 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

James, I would highly recommend hitting the lap button on your 910 to begin and end each interval.  It really makes looking at and analyzing the data a lot easier.  For trainer workouts, you can actually program workouts into your 910 so that the laps are created automatically assuming you follow the desired lengths.  It takes about 10-20 minutes to get used to entering it in, but once you have a template of a few workouts, it's actually really easy to adjust.  It's also nice because the garmin will beep 5 times for the last 5 seconds of a lap so you know when an effort is about to begin or end in case you were day dreaming or closing your eyes in pain.  

Here is an example of a workout that I entered into my Garmin 510 that is for over under intervals.

The specific workout might be...warm up 15 minutes, then 4x10' where the 10' is broken down by 4' 100%, 1' 115%, 4' 100%, 1' 115%...then 5' rest intervals in between each 10' interval.  Then a 15' cool down.

These are the steps I created in the garmin workout creator

Step 1 - Go until lap press.  This is my warm up.  I could set this to a specific time such as 15 minutes, but I choose the option of when I hit the lap button since I want to start my interval at a desired location.

Step 2 - Ride 4'
Step 3 - Ride 1'
Step 4 - Go back to step 2 and repeat 2x

Step 5 - Go until lap press.  This is my 5' rest interval.  Again, I could set it to a specific time, but I want to get back to my start point since I'm outdoors. 

Step 6 - Go back to step 2 and repeat 4x.

I know this sounds a little complicated, but once you understand it...it's great.  I only have to hit the lap button a handful of times instead of about 22 times.  Then all my ride data looks clean like THIS.  Very easy to see each individual effort marked off by a lap.  You can see my rest intervals were a little longer than prescribed...mainly because that's how long it took me to ride back down the hill safely.

I can keep the template of the workout saved in my garmin, so if the specifics change...such as the amount of time per interval, or the amount of repeats...it's easy to change with just a few steps.

You can do similar things by creating your own workouts in software like golden cheetah or trainer road, but I find having the laps marked off by the garmin is best since it will carry over anywhere you upload your data (strava, garmin connect, training peaks, etc).



Edited by Jason N 2015-01-28 2:11 PM
2015-01-28 2:15 PM
in reply to: Jason N

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Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Thanks Jason that's a great idea.



2015-01-28 2:20 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

I'm guessing the defaulted autolap every 5 miles is turned on for your 910.  You probably want to turn that off.

2015-01-28 2:20 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by BrotherTri Ben, I am ride the 4x8' by time 8 min on with 2 min ri. 1st one started at 24:59 and ended 32:59. EDIT so 10' wu 7' max 8' recovery to build 40' 4x8 5' cd 70'

Yeah, I followed what the workout was, but how are you determining that you actually hit the power you did? I use the lap button so have a split and I'll get data just for that interval. If I followed yours it would be an 8' interval. As of now, I have to try highlighting what I see in the power section of the graphs. This has been fairly inaccurate for me historically. I can get 285 or 305 for the same interval in your recent workout.

2015-01-28 2:21 PM
in reply to: brigby1

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Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by brigby1

James, how are you figuring the intervals again? The Garmin and Strava sites both seem to show 5 mile intervals, and use data from the PT?




Ben,

I know what your are seeing I had auto lap on for 5 miles increments. No wounder it looks confusing because it is......
2015-01-28 2:28 PM
in reply to: 0

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Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by BrotherTri Ben, I am ride the 4x8' by time 8 min on with 2 min ri. 1st one started at 24:59 and ended 32:59. EDIT so 10' wu 7' max 8' recovery to build 40' 4x8 5' cd 70'

Yeah, I followed what the workout was, but how are you determining that you actually hit the power you did? I use the lap button so have a split and I'll get data just for that interval. If I followed yours it would be an 8' interval. As of now, I have to try highlighting what I see in the power section of the graphs. This has been fairly inaccurate for me historically. I can get 285 or 305 for the same interval in your recent workout.




Well I watch the clock peddle till the watts are over 300 on the PT or CT and try to maintain that as best I can for that time in the interval. I know the watts go up and down. I am also still on the computrainer so that is providing a flat load.....if that make any sense. Other than a erg file which provides load through the whole peddle cycles I not sure of a better way. I am all ears thou....

Edited by BrotherTri 2015-01-28 2:29 PM
2015-01-28 2:29 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by brigby1

James, how are you figuring the intervals again? The Garmin and Strava sites both seem to show 5 mile intervals, and use data from the PT?

Ben, I know what your are seeing I had auto lap on for 5 miles increments. No wounder it looks confusing because it is......

See, now tasr would have handled this just fine.



2015-01-28 2:30 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

Master
10208
50005000100100
Northern IL
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Originally posted by brigby1

Originally posted by BrotherTri Ben, I am ride the 4x8' by time 8 min on with 2 min ri. 1st one started at 24:59 and ended 32:59. EDIT so 10' wu 7' max 8' recovery to build 40' 4x8 5' cd 70'

Yeah, I followed what the workout was, but how are you determining that you actually hit the power you did? I use the lap button so have a split and I'll get data just for that interval. If I followed yours it would be an 8' interval. As of now, I have to try highlighting what I see in the power section of the graphs. This has been fairly inaccurate for me historically. I can get 285 or 305 for the same interval in your recent workout.

Well I watch the clock peddle till the watts are over 300 on the PT or CT and try to maintain that as best I can for that time in the interval. I know the watts go up and down. I am also still on the computrainer so that is providing a flat load.....if that make any sense. Other than a erg file which provides load through the whole peddle cycles I not sure of a better way. I am all ears thou....

Ok, wasn't sure if you were doing something with the CT as well.

2015-01-28 2:44 PM
in reply to: ratherbeswimming

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Veteran
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Houston, Texas
Subject: RE: SBR "U"

Originally posted by ratherbeswimming

Originally posted by mcmanusclan5

Originally posted by spudone

They didn't see anything bad on the MRI, which is a mixed blessing, since I still don't know what to do about the pain.  My stepfather is a radiologist so I'll have him take a closer look.  Probably just physical therapy in the meantime.

Ugh - the equivocal thing is a mind-#%$@.  Makes it tough to know how to treat it, but sounds like PT is a good plan for now.

Hope it comes around for you soon.

Matt

Uggg. Did this last year with shin splints. MRI and X-Rays never confirmed a thing. So is there really something wrong? Should I run? 

I feel your pain

I hope there's a resolution!

Been there, done that.  I dealt with a "mystery" knee injury (knew with certainty what caused it, but had no idea what was wrong or how to fix it) for well over a year.

Have you tried ART and/or PT?

2015-01-28 2:48 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"

James, if you use some form of lap function for each interval, then you can display lap average power on your 910.  It makes it a lot easier to hit the desired power for that rep.  By keeping an eye on the lap average, you won't feel a bad when your instant or 3 second power goes a little above or below your target.  That's normal...the main thing is that your average is as close to your goal as possible.

 

2015-01-28 2:59 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by BrotherTri
Other than a erg file which provides load through the whole peddle cycles


Do you find this to be a problem ? I know Fred has commented on it, but lots of people ride high power in Erg mode.
2015-01-28 3:23 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Extreme Veteran
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5000500100100
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by BrotherTri


I did post this on FB so my apologies. Todays workout was 10” WU, 7x30's max 30’s ri, then 4x8' @110% (FTP 280) with 2’ ri. Last set was tough and I lost focus on maintaining the watts as consistently as I could, but done. HR Avg 151, AP 252, NP 273, TSS 110. I seam to do better at shorter sets. I do struggle to hold any steady watts. Any tips on that other than erg mode?

Here is the Garmin link; http://connect.garmin.com/activity/684642964

I did load this into Golden Cheetah. The thing is I really have know idea how that data will help let alone what to look for. Any thoughts on that?



I also think you wiped yourself pretty well during that warm up. I suspect if you would have taken another 5 minutes before starting the main set you would have done better.


2015-01-28 3:35 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by BrotherTri
Other than a erg file which provides load through the whole peddle cycles


Do you find this to be a problem ? I know Fred has commented on it, but lots of people ride high power in Erg mode.


No not really, but I could not maintain % power for intervals in testing this. The effort is unnatural but I am sure it would make me stronger. I other thing is ALL this power work is still new and only riding 3x a week gives limited test time because I want go to workout. Not go to ez workout but ones that I know will yield. Remember for me to use those erg or your mrc file i would have to re write them because my software doesn't recognized the %.

2015-01-28 3:41 PM
in reply to: marcag

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Master
2621
2000500100
Mechanicsburg, PA
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by BrotherTri


I did post this on FB so my apologies. Todays workout was 10” WU, 7x30's max 30’s ri, then 4x8' @110% (FTP 280) with 2’ ri. Last set was tough and I lost focus on maintaining the watts as consistently as I could, but done. HR Avg 151, AP 252, NP 273, TSS 110. I seam to do better at shorter sets. I do struggle to hold any steady watts. Any tips on that other than erg mode?

Here is the Garmin link; http://connect.garmin.com/activity/684642964

I did load this into Golden Cheetah. The thing is I really have know idea how that data will help let alone what to look for. Any thoughts on that?



I also think you wiped yourself pretty well during that warm up. I suspect if you would have taken another 5 minutes before starting the main set you would have done better.


I agree that had something to do with it.....But that is all good as well. Just like 2 days ago I ran a fast 13 mile run while doing 100/100 runs.

What kind of data in a priority point of view should i be looking at in Golden Cheetah?

2015-01-28 3:42 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Extreme Veteran
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5000500100100
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by BrotherTri

Remember for me to use those erg or your mrc file i would have to re write them because my software doesn't recognized the %.



Golden Cheetah has a tool to write the erg files. You can write them in watts or %.
It's under Tools -> Create a new workout.

2015-01-28 3:47 PM
in reply to: BrotherTri

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Extreme Veteran
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5000500100100
Subject: RE: SBR "U"
Originally posted by BrotherTri

Originally posted by marcag

Originally posted by BrotherTri


I did post this on FB so my apologies. Todays workout was 10” WU, 7x30's max 30’s ri, then 4x8' @110% (FTP 280) with 2’ ri. Last set was tough and I lost focus on maintaining the watts as consistently as I could, but done. HR Avg 151, AP 252, NP 273, TSS 110. I seam to do better at shorter sets. I do struggle to hold any steady watts. Any tips on that other than erg mode?

Here is the Garmin link; http://connect.garmin.com/activity/684642964

I did load this into Golden Cheetah. The thing is I really have know idea how that data will help let alone what to look for. Any thoughts on that?



I also think you wiped yourself pretty well during that warm up. I suspect if you would have taken another 5 minutes before starting the main set you would have done better.


I agree that had something to do with it.....But that is all good as well. Just like 2 days ago I ran a fast 13 mile run while doing 100/100 runs.

What kind of data in a priority point of view should i be looking at in Golden Cheetah?




I think that warm up is even more specific to the failure in that workout.
In GC, enable the W' balance in the ride plot

Think of W' as a battery that discharges when going over CP. The more you go over, the more it discharges. Look at it in the plot. You went into the 8' intervals not "recharged".

Try that same exact workout tomorrow. Take 10 extra minutes before the 8' intervals. I bet you do better.
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