So outraged I had to say something... (Page 2)

I don't know what others believe.  I'm just saying that I am not of the school that man, for example, was fully formed as we know him today.  He evolved.  However a higher power kicked off the entire thing billion upon billions of years ago.

I am not a religious person.  But i believe science and religion CAN mix.  My uncle is a physicist, and a devoted Christian, sunday school teacher and such.  There are many hospitals founded and funded by religious organizations.  

I think the bible is written in a figurative way, with  more symbolism than to be taken word-for-word.  Probably that was the only way to easily explain things to people 2000 years ago?  I am a scientist.  When a Christian think that science advancement is from the act of God or even miracles, I would not get offended.  I actually welcome that kind of attitude.  

Nice!

Like I said.....I'm a seeker.  The best part of my job is that I've seen so much....the worst part of my job is that I've seen so much.  

On questions of religious nature I figure I've got a mulligan....either there is nothing, or I get to say, "Really?  THAT was part of a plan, seriously??? Nobody that You created could have faith in THAT! My bad." 

 I was just curious because lots of folks seem to step across that line under the pretense of exposing the kids to diversity. I've seen a lot of people will highlight Christianity and teach their kids that it is not true. Then expose them to another religion for the sake of diversity. I think that might be confusing to kids is all.

   As to your separation of church and state issue, which I think is your main gripe. Did you ask where funding for the presentation came from? I think you might be surprised how little our government funds our park system. There are lots of private donors (I'm one) and organizations that donate time and money to the park system. I'd be willing to bet the DVD company funded the entire presentation. Are you Ok with the show going on provided they provide a disclaimer or are you against it continuing altogether in it's current form?

Good points.  I have no problem exposing my kids to different faiths...but, this was not one of those instances.  There was nothing in the topic description that smacked of religious influence...nothing.  It was an educational experience on monarch butterflies offered by a national wildlife refuge.  The e-mail addresses I was given to voice my concerns were both ".gov."  It is run by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.  

btw, I don't teach my kids that ANY religion is untrue.  As parents, we answer questions about religion open and honestly.  We review beliefs of all faiths and even how beliefs within those faiths are not consistent/uniform.

The dvd that was played at the event yesterday morning (I believe) was not the major focus of the presentation.  I don't believe the activities, Q&A, presentation, etc. had any Creationist material.  It truly was just the dvd.  It was completely inappropriate.  To answer your question about whether I'm okay with this program continuing in its current form, of course not.  That said, if they want to title it, "Interesting educational experience on monarch butterflies...with a God-centered Creationist opinion on their existence..." I could live with that...I wouldn't attend it, but to have it slipped in under the guise of science makes my stomach turn.

I'm right there with you and TriRSquared on that.  Science is science.  Whether a God, Gods, or a Flying Spaghetti Monster set it all in motion, I haven't the foggiest.  I have personal beliefs of an after-life, I have a healthy spirituality...but I sure as heck don't have the gall to go out and convince others my imagination, hopes, beliefs (whatever you want to call them) are something they need to believe or even hear about.

 Well, we've talked you down from outrage to mere stomach turning!

  I get your point. I've attended a bunch of talks and seminars in the NPS. One in particular got the Ranger off on a political rant that I felt was not relevant or appropriate for the audience. I bit my tongue and let it go. Another man attending the presentation didn't and it started to get heated. Our passionate Ranger was in the process of losing it when the other guy got up and excused himself. I considered reporting the Ranger, but let it go. I felt his service, passion for his job and desire to preserve his park would ultimately put more in the positive column than his going off topic would go towards the negative.

Seriously, no worries here.  I view CoJ as a hangin' out, informal meeting place of triathletes...I try to view it as if I was walking into a coffee shop and we're just having fun convo, all the ups and downs, etc.

My emotions are plenty in check.  Had they not been, I wouldn't have been so polite, discreet, and composed when I spoke with her and the employees of the refuge.  I will be extremely objective when it comes to the e-mail and subsequent discussion(s) with the head of the refuge.

Currently, in my crafting of the message, I have three objectives:  1-letting management know what was shown yesterday.  2-finding out who is ultimately responsible for ensuring materials presented are appropriate.  and 3-ensuring something like this does not happen again.  I will reinforce that the presenter was an excellent presenter...the activities were fun, the interactive aspect was wonderful...but a "God-based, Creationist Education" dvd has no place in that environment.  The presenter was a retired 2nd grade public schoolteacher.  She is not an employee of the refuge.  That said, it will be up to the refuge to convince me there is a system in place to ensure Creationism isn't masquerading as science at their federally funded refuge in the future.

Watch the 2 minute preview for this dvd, please!

Disingenuous at best. If the intent was to show pretty butterflies, then turn off the sound and provide your own narration. 

A couple of years ago, my daughter asked me to do a presentation at the children's library program she was running about SCUBA diving. I had grabbed some promo videos at a convention that had great footage, but obviously were promoting "dive with us at our exotic locations". So, when I showed the videos, I turned off the sound and talked about what was on the screen that I thought was worth watching.

And with all the other posts, it is obvious that the presenter had a bias. It was frankly comical that her comment was "I am sorry you were offended" - for several reasons. First, it puts the problem on the person raising the issue. It is not "I am sorry for doing something offensive". Second, most people who understand science are not offended by creationists. We see them as poorly informed, and are concerned when they raise their ideas in an inappropriate setting. But when the shoes are on the other foot, THAT is when there is offense taken - by the creationists. So her comment was really a poorly veiled projection of how she apparently has felt when she is at lectures hearing about how things have evolved.

Here it is, please tell me if you find this acceptable or not...it's a 2-minute dvd trailer for the exact dvd shown yesterday morning:  I would love to hear your opinions!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHUYjk6RRlU

I kind of find this conversation funny as in one event "creation" was mentioned in your day.  Whereas, as a creationist, we see "evolution-this, evolution-that" multiple times each and every day.

I'm not here add fuel to the fire, but I don't come on here complaining about all the evolution stuff or whatever-else with which I don't agree when it happens to me in life.  It is life.  There will be things that you don't believe.  Take it with a grain of salt, stop sniveling, and get about with your day.   

The only thing that can be agreed upon is that you can't please everyone 100% of the time.

Very nice footage but the narrative content would be unacceptable to me, especially if passed off as an educational video in a public setting.

Would you expect a similar reaction from a Christian Creationist if they did a presentation on apes and the Leakey's were the only perspective given?  You must try on the other guys' shoes, even if they don't fit to understand their stance.

It was absolutely, 100%, NOT a faith-based organization.  It is a national wildlife refuge run ultimately by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.  That 2-minute trailer for the dvd gives you a great idea of the ultimate aim of the video.  It would be fine for a church group, bible study, (insert religious group activity here), but not in this case.  

I'd be interested to hear how your dad (being an entomologist) would stand on bringing over his elementary school age grandchildren to a presentation like this.  Maybe he would like it, maybe not...I'm leaning not.

...and yes, a letter and discussion with the head of the refuge are on the itinerary.

If I were a Christian Creationist, I would not go to a scientific presentation in a public building (not Church-based) and complain because I know it would likely be based on science that does not conform to my church's views.  Just like being a non-Creationist, I would not go to this person's Church and get upset I wasn't seeing a scientific presentation based on science that an overwhelming majority of the world's leading scientists agree has the most evidence supporting its positions.

On a slight tangent, the Creationist argument grows more difficult to support each and every week, month, year, etc.  Science is always improving...while the various Creationist views remain statically entrenched in views that don't change, that can't change as they are sacred words of the specific God and or Gods.

Yo Gomes, thanks for the quick response.  Very cool link.  Yes, now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout!  

I was fine with the video until the old guy got on at 1:00. 

Admittedly, I agree with him.  Evolution is not an accident.