Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Stacers

Originally posted by Left Brain

There is NOTHING that stops a girl from being whatever she wants to be....there are less girls in the math/science fields because there are fewer girls, proportionally to boys, who are interested in those fields....it's nature, not toys.

That's really awesome of you to think as a man, but I call BS. You can stick your head in the sand and act like women have always had the same opportunities as men in these fields, but until you go work in a chemical plant or on a drilling rig, I don't think you really know what it's like out there.

If she doesn't know it's an option, how does she know if she's interested? When I went to engineering school my graduating class was 21% female - it was record-breaking at the time. The same school now boasts 29% females in the student body, 14 years later. 40 years ago, 0% female. This is because as more women enter technical fields, more girls see engineering as an option where they might not have been aware of it before. My daughter knows engineering is a valid career choice (as is teacher, or veterinarian, or artist) because she KNOWS women who are engineers. 40 years ago, unheard of. 20 years ago, a possibility, but still mostly unheard of. You make it sound like women are genetically predisposed to not be interested in engineering - if that were the case, you wouldn't see the numbers of female engineers continually increasing. Opportunity is there that hasn't always been.

Why does it get everyone's panties in a bunch that there's a freaking TOY on the market to encourage young girls in engineering? Does this even affect your life at all Left Brain? Seriously? That's what this thread is about - whether or not we should be offended by the existence of this toy. My answer is NO. Whatever we can do to encourage young girls, let's allow it. Especially when it's not hurting anyone else, or asking anything of you at all. I realize that this is not going to be the end-all be-all of what my kid chooses to be as an adult, but come on - I'd like to at least give her something constructive to do on Christmas morning, rather than brushing her Barbie's hair.

How much of that growth do you think is due to the expanding definition of engineering, and historical bias? I was talking to the new Bioengineering department head at my school, they are recruiting heavily and their current faculty is 7 men, 5 women. He stated one of their goals is to bring more women faculty and students into the program, and the front page of their brochure is 3 women working in a lab.

On the other hand, when you look at the older programs, Mechanical Engineering faculty is 33 men and 2 women. EECS is is 24 men and 4 women, Civil Engineering is 15 men and 1 women. Not sure how you encourage women to become engineers in that environment.

Anecdotally, I was involved in FIRST robotics with my sons, and there were quite a few HS girls also involved. I wonder if that is because so many of the teachers involved in mentoring the teams were female?

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Stacers

Originally posted by Left Brain

There is NOTHING that stops a girl from being whatever she wants to be....there are less girls in the math/science fields because there are fewer girls, proportionally to boys, who are interested in those fields....it's nature, not toys.

That's really awesome of you to think as a man, but I call BS. You can stick your head in the sand and act like women have always had the same opportunities as men in these fields, but until you go work in a chemical plant or on a drilling rig, I don't think you really know what it's like out there.

If she doesn't know it's an option, how does she know if she's interested? When I went to engineering school my graduating class was 21% female - it was record-breaking at the time. The same school now boasts 29% females in the student body, 14 years later. 40 years ago, 0% female. This is because as more women enter technical fields, more girls see engineering as an option where they might not have been aware of it before. My daughter knows engineering is a valid career choice (as is teacher, or veterinarian, or artist) because she KNOWS women who are engineers. 40 years ago, unheard of. 20 years ago, a possibility, but still mostly unheard of. You make it sound like women are genetically predisposed to not be interested in engineering - if that were the case, you wouldn't see the numbers of female engineers continually increasing. Opportunity is there that hasn't always been.

Why does it get everyone's panties in a bunch that there's a freaking TOY on the market to encourage young girls in engineering? Does this even affect your life at all Left Brain? Seriously? That's what this thread is about - whether or not we should be offended by the existence of this toy. My answer is NO. Whatever we can do to encourage young girls, let's allow it. Especially when it's not hurting anyone else, or asking anything of you at all. I realize that this is not going to be the end-all be-all of what my kid chooses to be as an adult, but come on - I'd like to at least give her something constructive to do on Christmas morning, rather than brushing her Barbie's hair.

So because he's male he can't possibly understand....got it. Now that we have that cleared.

As someone who saw women explode in the Nuclear industry and in the Engineering dept at Ga Tech, I would say that in today's world, YES women have every single opportunity equal to a male in the engineering 'world'. And I'd go so far as to say they have an advantage.

As an aside, how many engineering positions are on that drill rig? It's mostly roughnecks and yes, it's male dominated due to the labor aspect. But I digress.

And you asked how your daughter is suppose to know that Engineering is a valid choice...the answer is because she it told that in the home. Not because of or not because of some toy. Just like the Military being a valid career option or Law Enforcement or going to college. It's discussed in the home as a potential.

Easy Peasy.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Marvarnett

Originally posted by Stacers

Originally posted by Left Brain

There is NOTHING that stops a girl from being whatever she wants to be....there are less girls in the math/science fields because there are fewer girls, proportionally to boys, who are interested in those fields....it's nature, not toys.

That's really awesome of you to think as a man, but I call BS. You can stick your head in the sand and act like women have always had the same opportunities as men in these fields, but until you go work in a chemical plant or on a drilling rig, I don't think you really know what it's like out there.

If she doesn't know it's an option, how does she know if she's interested? When I went to engineering school my graduating class was 21% female - it was record-breaking at the time. The same school now boasts 29% females in the student body, 14 years later. 40 years ago, 0% female. This is because as more women enter technical fields, more girls see engineering as an option where they might not have been aware of it before. My daughter knows engineering is a valid career choice (as is teacher, or veterinarian, or artist) because she KNOWS women who are engineers. 40 years ago, unheard of. 20 years ago, a possibility, but still mostly unheard of. You make it sound like women are genetically predisposed to not be interested in engineering - if that were the case, you wouldn't see the numbers of female engineers continually increasing. Opportunity is there that hasn't always been.

Why does it get everyone's panties in a bunch that there's a freaking TOY on the market to encourage young girls in engineering? Does this even affect your life at all Left Brain? Seriously? That's what this thread is about - whether or not we should be offended by the existence of this toy. My answer is NO. Whatever we can do to encourage young girls, let's allow it. Especially when it's not hurting anyone else, or asking anything of you at all. I realize that this is not going to be the end-all be-all of what my kid chooses to be as an adult, but come on - I'd like to at least give her something constructive to do on Christmas morning, rather than brushing her Barbie's hair.

So because he's male he can't possibly understand....got it. Now that we have that cleared. As someone who saw women explode in the Nuclear industry and in the Engineering dept at Ga Tech, I would say that in today's world, YES women have every single opportunity equal to a male in the engineering 'world'. And I'd go so far as to say they have an advantage. As an aside, how many engineering positions are on that drill rig? It's mostly roughnecks and yes, it's male dominated due to the labor aspect. But I digress. And you asked how your daughter is suppose to know that Engineering is a valid choice...the answer is because she it told that in the home. Not because of or not because of some toy. Just like the Military being a valid career option or Law Enforcement or going to college. It's discussed in the home as a potential. Easy Peasy.

Uh oh, NSA alert.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

I hope you realize, Stacers, that I have a Mechanical Engineering degree.

You seem to be arguing on whether this is a good toy or not. It may very well be, but as someone else said, it's not going to make or break whether a young woman will go into engineering. I feel like the marketing campaign is telling me that this is the only way to help a girl become interested in such a field. And that if I buy this toy I will open her eyes to something she has never seen before. But as I said, this us the way I∫interpret this.

I, personally, didn't like being an engineer. I don't think it was because I am a female or was in a male dominated field. Many times that could be an asset...I'm not really saying I used "sex" as a marketing ploy, but I was able to get on someone's good side because they probably weren't intimidated by me. I also probably got job interviews or opportunities because I was female. I'm not saying I wasn't qualified or didn't deserve it....but if there were 2 candidates that were almost exactly the same, besides one being female and one being male...in my opinion, the woman would've have "won".

I think my issue with the toy is what I feel it's saying with the marketing message. But...it is just one group of toys of thousands.

BTW, it's awesome that your daughter is good in math and enjoys science. But that doesn't mean that she will or won't be where her career interests will lie. But it sounds like she will have a supportive mom in whatever she does.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by lkct01234

I hope you realize, Stacers, that I have a Mechanical Engineering degree.

You seem to be arguing on whether this is a good toy or not. It may very well be, but as someone else said, it's not going to make or break whether a young woman will go into engineering. I feel like the marketing campaign is telling me that this is the only way to help a girl become interested in such a field. And that if I buy this toy I will open her eyes to something she has never seen before. But as I said, this us the way I∫interpret this.

I, personally, didn't like being an engineer. I don't think it was because I am a female or was in a male dominated field. Many times that could be an asset...I'm not really saying I used "sex" as a marketing ploy, but I was able to get on someone's good side because they probably weren't intimidated by me. I also probably got job interviews or opportunities because I was female. I'm not saying I wasn't qualified or didn't deserve it....but if there were 2 candidates that were almost exactly the same, besides one being female and one being male...in my opinion, the woman would've have "won".

I think my issue with the toy is what I feel it's saying with the marketing message. But...it is just one group of toys of thousands.

BTW, it's awesome that your daughter is good in math and enjoys science. But that doesn't mean that she will or won't be where her career interests will lie. But it sounds like she will have a supportive mom in whatever she does.

I did realize you had an engineering background, and was just trying to present a positive for this toy, and a reason why you, as a female engineer, might not need to be offended by it's existence.

Of course I don't think a toy is the only thing in the world that will expose my kid to engineering principles, or the idea that she can be whatever she wants to be. I'm her parent - that's MY job. I just like that somebody out there had the idea, and thought it was a step in the right direction. I see it as a positive, not something for us to get upset about.

I agree that the marketing message can be off-putting, but I guess what I was trying to say is that, despite what I may feel about, it appeals to my kid, and I don't think that's a bad thing. There are a lot more harmful marketing messages out there competing for her attention.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Marvarnett

So because he's male he can't possibly understand....got it. Now that we have that cleared. As someone who saw women explode in the Nuclear industry and in the Engineering dept at Ga Tech, I would say that in today's world, YES women have every single opportunity equal to a male in the engineering 'world'. And I'd go so far as to say they have an advantage. As an aside, how many engineering positions are on that drill rig? It's mostly roughnecks and yes, it's male dominated due to the labor aspect. But I digress. And you asked how your daughter is suppose to know that Engineering is a valid choice...the answer is because she it told that in the home. Not because of or not because of some toy. Just like the Military being a valid career option or Law Enforcement or going to college. It's discussed in the home as a potential. Easy Peasy.

Honestly, I apologize that I worded my response that way because it's not what I mean and it was obviously inflammatory. I have personally experienced some limits on what positions were available to me as a female engineer in a chemical plant, and have friends who are petroleum engineers who have experienced the same as drilling engineers due to the nature of the field being very male-dominated. I didn't throw out those two examples out of nowhere - they were based on actual experience. I appreciate that anyone here can have a differing opinion about whether women can be anything they want to be or whether limitations might exist in a certain area or not - you're always entitled to an opinion. It's simply that my actual employment experience did not always support that and that I therefore disagree based on my own experience.

Marvarnett, I do agree with you that there are areas where being a female can be an asset in a technical field nowadays. I worked for companies who were pretty excited about picking out their top female engineers and promoting them, and schools are going very much out of their way to recruit women for engineering - I guess because it looks good to be more balanced? I don't know, and honestly, it gives me a bad taste in my mouth. I wish gender weren't a factor at all, either way.

And yeah, I don't think a stupid toy is going to teach my daughter to be an engineer, or that she can be one. I'm her mom - I talk to her, she knows those things. I was simply trying to defend the existence of a stupid toy that seems to be a positive alternative to some of the other junk marketed to girls her age. It's a little piece of encouragement along the way, that's all.

Edited by Stacers 2014-02-05 9:37 PM

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Blogs cause people to really over think parenting.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Goosedog Blogs cause people to really over think parenting.

My grandpa used to look at us and say, "buy you books, send you to school, and what do you do? Eat the teacher."

I think my horse daughter would secretly like to join the Professional Bull Riders circuit....anyone know where I can get a pink mechanical bull?

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Goosedog Blogs cause people to really over think parenting.

My grandpa used to look at us and say, "buy you books, send you to school, and what do you do? Eat the teacher."

I think my horse daughter would secretly like to join the Professional Bull Riders circuit....anyone know where I can get a pink mechanical bull?

Check on E-Bay...

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by BrianRunsPhilly

I work in Life Sciences, and there is pretty much an equal ratio of women to men in both industry and academia. Chemistry is a little male-biased. I do know quite a few women chemists, but they are in academia.

I see a problem in Engineering. My son is a senior and spent 4 years in a magnet program for Engineering at his HS. 22 kids in his class, all male. There are a maximum of 3 girls in each of the freshman-junior classes.

Besides the message it's sending about women, it's made social interactions like dating and prom difficult.

As I also work in the life sciences I would have to disagree with this to a certain extent. Though the ratios may be similar most of the upper tier positions e.g. PIs, VPs etc. are still mostly male, particularly in chemistry. The ratio of women to men is much higher at the bench level. It is a dichotomy I have always found interesting and that I believe will resolve itself given time.

As for how do little girls know things like engineering etc. will be available to them; teach them to be strong, intelligent individuals and if they are so inclined they will find their way and they will manage even when 90% of their classmates are male. Science, engineering and math are about a way of thinking that just makes sense to some of us, regardless of gender.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Goosedog Blogs cause people to really over think parenting.

My grandpa used to look at us and say, "buy you books, send you to school, and what do you do? Eat the teacher."

I think my horse daughter would secretly like to join the Professional Bull Riders circuit....anyone know where I can get a pink mechanical bull?

You have a horse daughter? I think you might be under investigation for that one.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by eabeam I think that it is a great idea. Many toys maybe designed to be gender neutral, but marketing does matter. I have a boy and a girl. Both my wife and I are educated professionals who do are darndest to raise our children free of gender stereotypes, focusing on STEM academics and athletics equally for both. However, somedays we it feels like we are in a one sided battle against neighbors, relatives, media, classmates, and random old ladies on the street. My daughter will play legos occasionally if her brother can talk her into it, but she will only shop in for toys in that one pink aisle. We got her Goldieblox, and she loves them. The colors and marketing work for her, and it is good start. I even like the T-shirt, "More than just a Princess." Exactly how I feel, I am not going to talk her out of watching Disney Princess movies (although I have hit my limit on 1000's of repeats of "Let It Go"), but she should balance it with other stuff. also, that link is to a website that sells stuff to the same market group that Goldieblox want to appeal to.... just sayin'

Can you explain the bolded part? You really feel like you are in a battle to get your daughter the same educational/athletic opportunities as your son? I'm asking because we have never felt that way in dealing with our 5 children.

I didn't post that but, I do feel this way. My daughter when she was 3 dressed up as a veterinarian for halloween- had full scrubs with puppies on them and was carrying a horse with a bandaged leg. I took her to trick or treat at a high tech company - and was horrified when 70% of people identified her as a nurse. Seriously, do you think if a boy was dressed in scrubs a single person would have asked him if he wanted to be a nurse? I am guessing he would have gotten surgeon more than 50% of the time. This is a company with a ton of women with PhDs in Physics etc. I might have expected it at a mall or something- but that it happened in a place with so many highly educated and brilliant women really took me by surprise.

She has kids at school tell her she can't play with them if she doesn't wear a dress everyday to school because they are all princesses.

Granted, she's still little and we plan on putting her in a STEM focused charter school where the attitude is very different. I guess I was just blown away by how deep gender stereotypes really are.

As far as the blocks go- I think it's marketing genius and it seems like they are super popular among the competitive parenting types. They seem less popular among the engineers I work with- to me they look like over contrived one trick pony plastics that are going to end up in the landfill. That said my daughter loves the purple Lego Friends sets and like them because you can combine creativity and engineering. There are so many great toys on the market these days - I can't wait til she's a little bigger b/c I want to play with a snap circuits set.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by JoshR

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by Goosedog Blogs cause people to really over think parenting.

My grandpa used to look at us and say, "buy you books, send you to school, and what do you do? Eat the teacher."

I think my horse daughter would secretly like to join the Professional Bull Riders circuit....anyone know where I can get a pink mechanical bull?

You have a horse daughter? I think you might be under investigation for that one.

Twins....one is horse twin, one is tri twin......for people who can't tell them apart.

Edited by Left Brain 2014-02-06 12:40 PM

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Moonrocket

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by eabeam I think that it is a great idea. Many toys maybe designed to be gender neutral, but marketing does matter. I have a boy and a girl. Both my wife and I are educated professionals who do are darndest to raise our children free of gender stereotypes, focusing on STEM academics and athletics equally for both. However, somedays we it feels like we are in a one sided battle against neighbors, relatives, media, classmates, and random old ladies on the street. My daughter will play legos occasionally if her brother can talk her into it, but she will only shop in for toys in that one pink aisle. We got her Goldieblox, and she loves them. The colors and marketing work for her, and it is good start. I even like the T-shirt, "More than just a Princess." Exactly how I feel, I am not going to talk her out of watching Disney Princess movies (although I have hit my limit on 1000's of repeats of "Let It Go"), but she should balance it with other stuff. also, that link is to a website that sells stuff to the same market group that Goldieblox want to appeal to.... just sayin'

Can you explain the bolded part? You really feel like you are in a battle to get your daughter the same educational/athletic opportunities as your son? I'm asking because we have never felt that way in dealing with our 5 children.

I didn't post that but, I do feel this way. My daughter when she was 3 dressed up as a veterinarian for halloween- had full scrubs with puppies on them and was carrying a horse with a bandaged leg. I took her to trick or treat at a high tech company - and was horrified when 70% of people identified her as a nurse. Seriously, do you think if a boy was dressed in scrubs a single person would have asked him if he wanted to be a nurse? I am guessing he would have gotten surgeon more than 50% of the time. This is a company with a ton of women with PhDs in Physics etc. I might have expected it at a mall or something- but that it happened in a place with so many highly educated and brilliant women really took me by surprise. She has kids at school tell her she can't play with them if she doesn't wear a dress everyday to school because they are all princesses. Granted, she's still little and we plan on putting her in a STEM focused charter school where the attitude is very different. I guess I was just blown away by how deep gender stereotypes really are. As far as the blocks go- I think it's marketing genius and it seems like they are super popular among the competitive parenting types. They seem less popular among the engineers I work with- to me they look like over contrived one trick pony plastics that are going to end up in the landfill. That said my daughter loves the purple Lego Friends sets and like them because you can combine creativity and engineering. There are so many great toys on the market these days - I can't wait til she's a little bigger b/c I want to play with a snap circuits set.

I don't know.......what's wrong with your daughter just saying, "no, I'm a veterinarian". We raise our girls to believe they can be anything they want to be....and they believe it because we reinforce it. We also raise them to stand up for themselves and not be afraid to tell someone what they think and who they are.

I don't think I'm getting on board with having my kids worrying what others think about them and their choices.

As for the kids at school......I'd just tell my daughter, "you can kick some princess arse".

Edited by Left Brain 2014-02-06 12:42 PM

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Moonrocket

I guess I was just blown away by how deep gender stereotypes really are.

My 4yo daughter loves pink, princesses and all the girly stuff. This is completely different than my wife, who grew up a tom boy. I only have a brother, so my idea of parenting comes from how my parents treated boys. We don't know where she gets it from - maybe friends at school, but her best friends at school have usually been boys.

I wonder if my daughter's preferences result from some societal gender stereotype, or that's just what she prefers. So, at this point, we try to reaffirm that nothing says she has to be a princess for Halloween, but we don't see much point in trying to steer her away from what she enjoys.

Edited by Goosedog 2014-02-06 12:58 PM

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

I don't think arse is really in the response I want my now 4yo to give.

I understand you can parent around all of this stuff- but it takes parenting around- is my point. It is amazing all of minor sexist things you run into- that I never noticed before I had a daughter (I mean I must have since I work in high tech with mostly all men- but not on same level I see regularly with my daughter.)

My daughter got invited to a superheros and princesses party. She went as Wonder Woman and as soon as she arrived (In a huge stars and stripes cape, boots, wristbands etc that I had made her) an adult pointed her to a table with crowns and beads and told her the princesses go over there. I was super proud of her when she said "I'm not a princess, I'm a super hero" and went over to the other side of the room with the 5 batmen. The whole party was an acting out of a story where the princesses get their jewelry stolen by a witch and get rescued by the superheros. It was fun to see my daughter rescuing them

Edited by Moonrocket 2014-02-06 1:11 PM

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Moonrocket I don't think arse is really in the response I want my now 4yo to give. I understand you can parent around all of this stuff- but it takes parenting around- is my point. It is amazing all of minor sexist things you run into- that I never noticed before I had a daughter (I mean I must have since I work in high tech with mostly all men- but not on same level I see regularly with my daughter.) My daughter got invited to a superheros and princesses party. She went as Wonder Woman and as soon as she arrived (In a huge stars and stripes cape, boots, wristbands etc that I had made her) an adult pointed her to a table with crowns and beads and told her the princesses go over there. I was super proud of her when she said "I'm not a princess, I'm a super hero" and went over to the other side of the room with the 5 batmen. The whole party was an acting out of a story where the princesses get their jewelry stolen by a witch and get rescued by the superheros. It was fun to see my daughter rescuing them

There you go......and that's how simple it is. It's really not something you need to overthink, just raise strong women (you aren't really raising girls and boys, you're raising men and women) who believe in themselves. All it takes is involved parents......pink and blue makes no difference at all.

And no, I'm sure you know I wouldn't have told my 4 yo daughter to kick some arse.......but I damn sure told them that by the time they were/are 13.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Goosedog

Originally posted by Moonrocket

I guess I was just blown away by how deep gender stereotypes really are.

My 4yo daughter loves pink, princesses and all the girly stuff. This is completely different than my wife, who grew up a tom boy. I only have a brother, so my idea of parenting comes from how my parents treated boys. We don't know where she gets it from - maybe friends at school, but her best friends at school have usually been boys.

I wonder if my daughter's preferences result from some societal gender stereotype, or that's just what she prefers. So, at this point, we try to reaffirm that nothing says she has to be a princess for Halloween, but we don't see much point in trying to steer her away from what she enjoys.

Why is it everyone forgets the nature half of the nature vs nurture argument in these threads? It is not a black and white issue, not one or the other but both together. It is as wrong to make a princess be a superhero as it is to make a superhero be a princess; they are each some combination of the two. Teach them both to be strong and confident in who they are.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by eabeam However, somedays we it feels like we are in a one sided battle against neighbors, relatives, media, classmates, and random old ladies on the street.

Can you explain the bolded part? You really feel like you are in a battle to get your daughter the same educational/athletic opportunities as your son? I'm asking because we have never felt that way in dealing with our 5 children.

Not opportunities, but social pressure.

I really don't think that I am the poster-boy for 2014 feminism, but, setting aside the fact that my children are mixed race, I feel like most of society talks to my children like it is the 1950's.

Maybe it is where I live, because boys are expected to be pretty out here too.... I am a New Englander transplanted in Souther California.

If someone is to communicate to my son, 90% of the time, it is about his work ethic, his intelligence, and his ability to suck it up in the face of adversity or other boys' shenanigans.

If someone talks to my daughter, 90% of the time it is about being pretty, her hair, her clothes, her shoes, being nice, or other "girl" things.

I cannot tell you how many times random people or aquantices have tried to talk me out holding my daughter to the same disciplinary expectations as my son because she is "adorable, and couldn't possibly deserve it."

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by trinnas

Originally posted by Goosedog

Originally posted by Moonrocket

I guess I was just blown away by how deep gender stereotypes really are.

My 4yo daughter loves pink, princesses and all the girly stuff. This is completely different than my wife, who grew up a tom boy. I only have a brother, so my idea of parenting comes from how my parents treated boys. We don't know where she gets it from - maybe friends at school, but her best friends at school have usually been boys.

I wonder if my daughter's preferences result from some societal gender stereotype, or that's just what she prefers. So, at this point, we try to reaffirm that nothing says she has to be a princess for Halloween, but we don't see much point in trying to steer her away from what she enjoys.

Why is it everyone forgets the nature half of the nature vs nurture argument in these threads? It is not a black and white issue, not one or the other but both together. It is as wrong to make a princess be a superhero as it is to make a superhero be a princess; they are each some combination of the two. Teach them both to be strong and confident in who they are.

This was my not expressly stated point.

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Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by eabeam

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by eabeam However, somedays we it feels like we are in a one sided battle against neighbors, relatives, media, classmates, and random old ladies on the street.

Can you explain the bolded part? You really feel like you are in a battle to get your daughter the same educational/athletic opportunities as your son? I'm asking because we have never felt that way in dealing with our 5 children.

Not opportunities, but social pressure. I really don't think that I am the poster-boy for 2014 feminism, but, setting aside the fact that my children are mixed race, I feel like most of society talks to my children like it is the 1950's. Maybe it is where I live, because boys are expected to be pretty out here too.... I am a New Englander transplanted in Souther California. If someone is to communicate to my son, 90% of the time, it is about his work ethic, his intelligence, and his ability to suck it up in the face of adversity or other boys' shenanigans. If someone talks to my daughter, 90% of the time it is about being pretty, her hair, her clothes, her shoes, being nice, or other "girl" things. I cannot tell you how many times random people or aquantices have tried to talk me out holding my daughter to the same disciplinary expectations as my son because she is "adorable, and couldn't possibly deserve it."

You gotta get out of California.

Master

2477

Oceanside, California

Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Left Brain

You gotta get out of California.

I could agree on some level, but I am in CT for four days and about to shovel snow for the first time in 1999.
I think that I will be fine flying back to San Diego.

I haven't tried to post a pic since the updated site, how do I add a photo?
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1491849/thumbs/o-BOYS-GIRLS-TOYS-900.jpg?...

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Pro

15655

Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by eabeam

Originally posted by Left Brain

You gotta get out of California.

I could agree on some level, but I am in CT for four days and about to shovel snow for the first time in 1999. I think that I will be fine flying back to San Diego. I haven't tried to post a pic since the updated site, how do I add a photo? http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1491849/thumbs/o-BOYS-GIRLS-TOYS-900.jpg?...

Here in the Midwest shoveling snow is woman's work.

Veteran

1019

St. Louis

Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Originally posted by eabeam

Originally posted by Left Brain

You gotta get out of California.

I could agree on some level, but I am in CT for four days and about to shovel snow for the first time in 1999. I think that I will be fine flying back to San Diego. I haven't tried to post a pic since the updated site, how do I add a photo? http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1491849/thumbs/o-BOYS-GIRLS-TOYS-900.jpg?...

Here in the Midwest shoveling snow is woman's work.

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Elite

4547

Subject: RE: Goldie Blox...women in science, etc.

Originally posted by Moonrocket

I don't think arse is really in the response I want my now 4yo to give.

I understand you can parent around all of this stuff- but it takes parenting around- is my point. It is amazing all of minor sexist things you run into- that I never noticed before I had a daughter (I mean I must have since I work in high tech with mostly all men- but not on same level I see regularly with my daughter.)

My daughter got invited to a superheros and princesses party. She went as Wonder Woman and as soon as she arrived (In a huge stars and stripes cape, boots, wristbands etc that I had made her) an adult pointed her to a table with crowns and beads and told her the princesses go over there. I was super proud of her when she said "I'm not a princess, I'm a super hero" and went over to the other side of the room with the 5 batmen. The whole party was an acting out of a story where the princesses get their jewelry stolen by a witch and get rescued by the superheros. It was fun to see my daughter rescuing them

I LOVE that story. Awesome!

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Goldie Blox...women in science, etc. (Page 2)

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