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BIking Ettiquite (Page 2)
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 2009-08-21 12:52 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
Expert  1116   Thornton, CO |  Subject: RE: BIking EttiquiteI had someone sneak up behind me on a long stretch up a >5% grade, not thinking someone would really be drafting me up something like that I spit off the side of the road. At the top of the mountain he came up to me and told me he didn't take it personally, but I had no idea I spit on him until he said that. |
| 2009-08-21 1:32 PM in reply to: #2362288 |
94 | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite the bear - 2009-08-21 11:27 AM cthoops - 2009-08-21 10:07 AM I definitely call people out on it. I'm not going to work my tail off pulling someone for miles without reciprocity. I don't mind if someone wants to draft, but don't suck on my wheel unless you're also going to do your fair share. Do you really work any harder if someone's behind you? I can understand the safety factor, but can't understand this logic. In fact it is actually the opposite. Someone drafting you actually breaks up the air behind you and actually cuts down on drag slightly. |
| 2009-08-21 1:51 PM in reply to: #2362288 |
Extreme Veteran 386 West Hartford, CT | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite the bear - 2009-08-21 11:27 AM cthoops - 2009-08-21 10:07 AM I definitely call people out on it. I'm not going to work my tail off pulling someone for miles without reciprocity. I don't mind if someone wants to draft, but don't suck on my wheel unless you're also going to do your fair share. Do you really work any harder if someone's behind you? I can understand the safety factor, but can't understand this logic. Bear, No, I'm definitely not working harder (well, except from a personal pride standpoint, but that's my choice - that "Lead Dog Mentality" as Donto so aptly put it.) My comment was poorly phrased. What I meant was that if someone is going to get the benefit of my pull (because obviously they aren't working as hard as if they were riding solo), I would also like to have the chance to rest a bit while they pull. Better?  Edited by cthoops 2009-08-21 1:58 PM |
| 2009-08-21 1:52 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
Veteran 204 Jacksonville, Fl | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite If someone wants to ride slowly and look at my big keester, I'll pull. Just say hey so I know you're there, and can warn you if I had taco bell. |
| 2009-08-21 2:05 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
Expert 692 Boca Raton, FL | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite Yeah, I just thought he should have said a word to me..when it got time for me to turn around, I had to actually pull off to the right since he was so close to my wheel. I just really thought he was rude. If he had said something, then I probably would not have cared so much...It's been pretty windfy here cause of all the pending hurricances in the ocean, so I can appreciate and understand wanting to take a rest for awhile, but jeez...let a girl know |
| 2009-08-21 2:20 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
Master 2477 Oceanside, California | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite I don't think that we can discount the creepy factor of when it is a guy doing that to a female without saying a word. |
| 2009-08-21 2:21 PM in reply to: #2362848 |
Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite cthoops - 2009-08-21 1:51 PM the bear - 2009-08-21 11:27 AM cthoops - 2009-08-21 10:07 AM I definitely call people out on it. I'm not going to work my tail off pulling someone for miles without reciprocity. I don't mind if someone wants to draft, but don't suck on my wheel unless you're also going to do your fair share. Do you really work any harder if someone's behind you? I can understand the safety factor, but can't understand this logic. Bear, No, I'm definitely not working harder (well, except from a personal pride standpoint, but that's my choice - that "Lead Dog Mentality" as Donto so aptly put it.) My comment was poorly phrased. What I meant was that if someone is going to get the benefit of my pull (because obviously they aren't working as hard as if they were riding solo), I would also like to have the chance to rest a bit while they pull. Better? But you don't know that "they aren't working as hard as if they were riding solo." Could be that they're working as hard or harder, just going faster. And on your part, if you want to "rest a bit," go slower. Still don't get the logic. I'm doing a training ride in lower Z3, someone jumps in behind me. I'm still in Z3, no more or less effort of any significance. If my plan calls for me to ride 90 minutes in Z2-Z3, then 30 minutes at an easier pace, then I do my 90 minutes then "rest a bit." Nothing the other person does changes my workout. Totally irrelevant. |
| 2009-08-21 2:25 PM in reply to: #2362407 |
| Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite Marvarnett - 2009-08-21 9:08 AM I find most of the responses here very funny. First off, yes, I consider it rude. They should ask out of courtesy and just so you know that they are there. I don't see it as much of a safety issue because if I see a pothole and go around it and they don't, I'm not going down...they are. If someone is that close to you (ie truly drafting) chances are just as high that they know what they are doing and will be able to do the smart thing should you slow up or brake/move/etc. It's not affecting you one bit if someone is on your wheel. It's not slowing you down, causing you to swerve, etc. As for speeding up, that is your call. I'm going to do my workout as it's stated. If that means you sit on my wheel because you want to pratice drafting or go at a faster speed, have at it. But it's not going to cause me to do anything differently. Not everyone is a triathlete. Drafting is a legitimate part of road racing and it's something that requires practice. I've had people latch onto my wheel and then say, want me to pull? My answer is no: I'm good. This is particurlarly fun in Centuries. So, in short, the only mistake that person made was not asking. Well, I might disagree that if you have to swerve the only one going down is him or her. Might be true, but if they are substantially overlapping your rear wheel, either as a rule or becuase you have to slow and swerve, I can see a scenario where a guy in back takes down the guy in front.... I'll admit it is unlikely, but I think it's there. I don't want to rely on the "chances" that the person behind me knows what they are doing. As a side note, while doing some intervlas just before Wildflower earlier in the year, riding on the bike path I passed a roadie girl near the end of one of the intervals. She got on my wheel, but I had to sit up about 20 seconds later. I felt bad, I didn't want to be "that guy" that passes a girl to pass her and then slows down... but I shortly started the next interval. Think I did two more then sat up and she came alongside. I told her what I was doing, she said, "yeah by the second one, I thought "OK, Intervals." Turns out she was pretty and nice, and we chatted until she turned, so I wasn't to miffed about it |
| 2009-08-21 2:29 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
Expert 1146 Johns Creek, Georgia | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite Samething on the bike as the car. If I have a tailgater, I let off the gas and make them pass on the right or left, road rules. I do not yield to a^^holes so they can speed along to the next guy and tailgate, I make them pass...same thing on the bike, I stop peddeling and let them go by, and yeah, if it's a chick, I draft off her. Sweet! |
| 2009-08-21 2:36 PM in reply to: #2362616 |
Master 4119 Toronto Bronze member | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite rcvusa - 2009-08-21 1:30 PM A fart would also discourage hee hee Definitely! |
| 2009-08-21 2:43 PM in reply to: #2362407 |
Master 1651 Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite Marvarnett - 2009-08-21 10:08 AM It's not affecting you one bit if someone is on your wheel. It's the potential of effect that I worry about. Riders who don't climb much don't know there's a little hesitation when a climber gets out of the saddle. Not knowing that could cause him to bump my wheel and put me down. I could think of about a hundred other cases where someone who doesn't normally ride my routes, being on my wheel could cause me to go down. I don't have to take that risk and so I won't. |
| 2009-08-21 2:55 PM in reply to: #2363006 |
Champion 5874 Milton, GA | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite breckview - 2009-08-21 3:43 PM Marvarnett - 2009-08-21 10:08 AM It's not affecting you one bit if someone is on your wheel. It's the potential of effect that I worry about. Riders who don't climb much don't know there's a little hesitation when a climber gets out of the saddle. Not knowing that could cause him to bump my wheel and put me down. I could think of about a hundred other cases where someone who doesn't normally ride my routes, being on my wheel could cause me to go down. I don't have to take that risk and so I won't.I would think that someone who is comfortable drafting off of a complete stranger would know the 'potential of effect'. Just sayin'
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| 2009-08-21 3:05 PM in reply to: #2363052 |
Master 1651 Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite LowcountryTRI - 2009-08-21 1:55 PM I would think that someone who is comfortable drafting off of a complete stranger would know the 'potential of effect'. Just sayin'
Perfect example... Today is Friday, 3rd busiest day of the week, and I'm about to leave to ride at prime time. I'll probably pass 200-300 riders only about ten of which will be locals from the mountains. All the others will "think" they know the "potential of effect" of mountain riding while in reality they won't. Luckily, not one will be able to hang with me, even in my draft |
 2009-08-21 3:56 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
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| 2009-08-21 4:07 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
| Regular 92 Orchard Park | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite piperfl - 2009-08-21 10:04 AM Yesterday I was training a quick 1 hr solo ride....10 minutes into it, i saw a shadow behind me, and realized someone was drafting. They did not ask, they did not say a word to me. I pulled this guy for 9 miles before I had to turn around, an when I did, he just looked at me..no thank you or anything. I was pretty annoyed. I think irt is so unsafe to draft someone you don't know, unless you say smething "do, you mifd if I sit in uyour draf for a bit", or whatever, but saying nothing. How does he know what kind of rider I am..maybe I stop short, brake fast, whatever... Do you say something when you draft off strangers? Is this normal... It's more embarassing that a guy was drafting a girl. |
| 2009-08-21 4:11 PM in reply to: #2363228 |
| Resident Curmudgeon 25290 The Road Back Gold member | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite Derek1984 - 2009-08-21 4:07 PM piperfl - 2009-08-21 10:04 AM Yesterday I was training a quick 1 hr solo ride....10 minutes into it, i saw a shadow behind me, and realized someone was drafting. They did not ask, they did not say a word to me. I pulled this guy for 9 miles before I had to turn around, an when I did, he just looked at me..no thank you or anything. I was pretty annoyed. I think irt is so unsafe to draft someone you don't know, unless you say smething "do, you mifd if I sit in uyour draf for a bit", or whatever, but saying nothing. How does he know what kind of rider I am..maybe I stop short, brake fast, whatever... Do you say something when you draft off strangers? Is this normal... It's more embarassing that a guy was drafting a girl. So there are no females who are stronger cyclists than you? |
| 2009-08-21 4:26 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
| Master 1993 Riverside, IL | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite I had this happen to me last weekend. Just some random guy, all kitted out so I assume he was part of a local cycling club. Didn't even know he was back there, until we came to a stoplight. I figured he would blow right by me, but instead he just hung back there for awhile. I kept thinking to myself..."why doesn't this guy just pass me already"...then it dawned on me, that I we were riding into a headwind...DUH!!! It didn't particularly bother me as much as it made me work my azz off...LOL! Yeah, once I knew he was staying back there...it sure made me pick up the pace a bit. I was using every single ounce of effort in me to keep a 20mph pace, just to stay ahead of him. Of course, he did end up passing me as soon as we got to the next light. |
| 2009-08-21 4:30 PM in reply to: #2363233 |
| Regular 92 Orchard Park | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite the bear - 2009-08-21 5:11 PM Derek1984 - 2009-08-21 4:07 PM piperfl - 2009-08-21 10:04 AM Yesterday I was training a quick 1 hr solo ride....10 minutes into it, i saw a shadow behind me, and realized someone was drafting. They did not ask, they did not say a word to me. I pulled this guy for 9 miles before I had to turn around, an when I did, he just looked at me..no thank you or anything. I was pretty annoyed. I think irt is so unsafe to draft someone you don't know, unless you say smething "do, you mifd if I sit in uyour draf for a bit", or whatever, but saying nothing. How does he know what kind of rider I am..maybe I stop short, brake fast, whatever... Do you say something when you draft off strangers? Is this normal... It's more embarassing that a guy was drafting a girl. So there are no females who are stronger cyclists than you? I should have used sarcasm font. However, I did check my last race (HIM) and the answer to your question based on that race would be no. But there are a ton of elites and pros that would smoke me. |
| 2009-08-21 5:23 PM in reply to: #2363052 |
| Expert 1123 Falls Church, VA | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite LowcountryTRI - 2009-08-21 3:55 PM breckview - 2009-08-21 3:43 PM Marvarnett - 2009-08-21 10:08 AM It's not affecting you one bit if someone is on your wheel. It's the potential of effect that I worry about. Riders who don't climb much don't know there's a little hesitation when a climber gets out of the saddle. Not knowing that could cause him to bump my wheel and put me down. I could think of about a hundred other cases where someone who doesn't normally ride my routes, being on my wheel could cause me to go down. I don't have to take that risk and so I won't.I would think that someone who is comfortable drafting off of a complete stranger would know the 'potential of effect'. Just sayin'
one would think, but in my case I get newby slower riders on my tail if I hit the paved path on a weekend. I'm riding a mtb, and have disk brakes and the path has a lot of stop signs. Serious riders will pass me easily. |
| 2009-08-21 6:04 PM in reply to: #2363228 |
| Expert 692 Boca Raton, FL | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite Derek1984 - 2009-08-21 5:07 PM piperfl - 2009-08-21 10:04 AM Yesterday I was training a quick 1 hr solo ride....10 minutes into it, i saw a shadow behind me, and realized someone was drafting. They did not ask, they did not say a word to me. I pulled this guy for 9 miles before I had to turn around, an when I did, he just looked at me..no thank you or anything. I was pretty annoyed. I think irt is so unsafe to draft someone you don't know, unless you say smething "do, you mifd if I sit in uyour draf for a bit", or whatever, but saying nothing. How does he know what kind of rider I am..maybe I stop short, brake fast, whatever... Do you say something when you draft off strangers? Is this normal... It's more embarassing that a guy was drafting a girl. Not sure where to being on how worng and offensive that statement is. In fact there are a couple girls on my tri theam that can kick any guys in biking...now, I may not be one of them or the fastest biker around, but I was going 19+ into the wind yesterday, so its not like I suck thank you very much |
| 2009-08-21 6:57 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
| Regular 60 New Orleans | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite The good thing is that I can only hit 16mph on my cheap bike so 1) I doubt anyone would want to draft behind me 2) It would be pretty risky since I had no idea what I am doing much less someone on my wheel |
| 2009-08-21 7:19 PM in reply to: #2363492 |
| Expert 1202 Montana | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite I can't even imagine someone being so presumptuous! Seriously, I'm dumbfounded. But, there aren't any other bikers where I ride, so I've never had to worry about it. That's just weird. |
| 2009-08-21 11:18 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
| Member 53 Nor Cal - Bay Area | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite In my view drafting just "comes with the territory" (while riding on the road), and should not be reason for alarm. If you are uncomfortable with it the "slow down" tactic should work. Even some triathlons are beginning to allow drafting, so this is a good skill to master. Perhaps something to be embraced rather than avoided. |
| 2009-08-22 11:03 AM in reply to: #2363749 |
| Master 1651 Breckenridge, CO | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite johnrsims - 2009-08-21 10:18 PM Perhaps something to be embraced rather than avoided. I absolutely love riding in a team of skilled riders and I plan to return to that environment after I accomplish some goals in triathlon. But there's a big difference between "skilled riders" and some random wannabe on the road. I personally don't need to "master the skill", and if that other rider wants to, he can do so by practicing with people that don't include me. Full disclosure is that there's a good chance that I'm just a coward because: * I've had many very bad bike wrecks with multiple injures (two AC separations just this summer). * I live in a cycling mecca where pretty much everyone I know rides seriously with thousands of tourists mixed in with us. * MOST IMPORTANTLY, my wife is an ortho surgery nurse and so I'm very aware of the injuries that come into our ER every day from bike accidents. It's absolutely gruesome. |
| 2009-08-22 5:35 PM in reply to: #2362064 |
| Veteran 185 Wilmington, NC | Subject: RE: BIking Ettiquite being a roadie more than a tri-person I agree that the person should have at least said he was hooking on...if I have it happen I don't mind as I group ride...I do like to know who I'm riding with and their skill level to some degree but this is easily figured out after a mile or so...he definately should have at least offered to pull for awhile though...after the first couple of miles with him sucking wind behind me I would have turned on the turbo's and yo-yo'ed him off the back if he never came up and asked to pull for awhile... |
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