Over-reliance and over-emphasis on training toys ...... (Page 2)

I LOVE THIS POST !!!

especially this part  

this is so true ! 

Perhaps. But the more toys I get, the more fun the training gets . Numbers and data and stuff are fun to me, even if I don't always know what to do with them. But, that's what my coach is for.

I dunno, "toys" make a lot of things more fun. Someone who enjoys cooking would love a big, professional-type kitchen in their house; someone who loves watching movies or playing video games, is gonna want to get the the biggest and best TV and sound system; someone who loves photography is going to want the camera and editing programs and stuff that they can do the most with. Of course, this doesn't hold true for everyone, but I think you get my point .

I don't have time to respond to the OP, maybe tonight when I get home.

That's exactly it ...... this is a hobby for 99% of the participants.  There is nothing wrong with owning/wanting toys.  There just seems a need for all of it to be tempered with enjoyment and spontaneity.

Seriously, is going too hard up a hill on the bike or through the woods on a run really going to destroy your chances of a PR in an olympic tri 2 or 3 months down the road??  Who knows .... maybe it will make you go faster!

Yes, I see the title of the thread and I agree with the general point I think he's trying to get across.  I simply think he goes too far in making his case. 

And I see the same 'problems' you see in the application of some tools.  But some of these 'problems' are toy-independent, i.e., people miss the forest for the trees because the forest-view shows a long path to the destination while that tree is just up ahead and so much easier to focus on. 

Sure, the tree is easy to focus on.  But people still get lost just trying to get to that tree, so much so that they don't even realize they're running into it.

And yes, I agree that the problems can be toy-independent.  But the use of gadgets makes it much more obvious. 

Sorry for the hijack, I know it's OT.  But your "usual effort for that distance" was an effort that would not allow you to run well and you should have been able to tell that from your HR (i.e., know that you weren't capable of a Z3 ride and a strong run).  I agree it's a mental thing and I know you like to ride the bike hard.  So only you can decide where enjoyment on the bike vs. enjoyment on the finish time balance out. 

If you have "tools" and don't use them properly, then they are "toys" at best. 

I agree with that.

bryancd - 2008-01-07 1:52 PM Wow, fun conversation and I almost missed it! Thank God Scout mentioned MAF tetsts, that's all that was missing from this diatribe!

Didn't want you to feel left out....

True, but here we are getting into the "value" and "execution" discussion of the toys/tools and not so much what I meant the topic to be about.

I make race day decisions and they either go my way or they don't.  I like to gamble when it comes to thngs like that.  I've hit home runs sometimes and I've fallen flat on my face others and there is no toy/tool that would have told me what I could have done those days.  Just experiences .......

The other extreme from FL would be my Boston race last year.  I was paying very close attention to my HR, and when it just wouldn't come down i kept backing off and backing off my effort.  Took me close to 9 miles to finally get into the range where it should be ...... and then I started getting leg cramps.  Made for a very long day.  And in that case I was very well trained for the effort that I was doing, and was monitoring my body closely.  It just wasn't there that day.  But 6 weeks before that I had a completely opposite day when I was just totally feeling it and crushed my 1/2 marathon PR by over 7 minutes.  And my HR was lower there then it was during those first 9 miles of Boston!

Once again though, this was not meant as a discussion about my personal training/racing philosophies.  I do know about using most of them the way that they are supposed to be used, but I don't have a personal need or desire to use them.  And while I may not have reached my full potential as a result of it, I'm still pretty darned good and generally happy with my results as I am enjoying racing compared to when I had gotten burned out from cycling road racing.  That's also why I'm not really sweating my IMLP training.  I'll fair however I do on that day regardless, but I plan on enjoying it!

That's the most important thing!

If "toys" hinder that in any way, then they are not worth it.  But some find enjoyment with (or even, in part, because of) the toys.  Regardless of how you train or what tools you use, don't miss the forest for the trees.  And try not to hit the trees either. 

On one hand I agree with the jest of the post. There are many athletes who overly think the details of training and look for "toys" such as wheels, bike, etc to cut corners or spend $$ on power meter HRM, pedometer, etc because someone else is using it but they have no idea as to how benefit from the info collected, that's their choice.

On the other hand there are many of us who use this training “tools” as a way to enhance our training and making it more efficient. Having limited training hours a week is a big issue and trying to make every hour count is important. Since the only way to grow fitter/faster is though workload (that you can get either through volume, intensity or a mix) using this tools we can get to quantify how much stress we are imposing in our bodies and in combination with how we feel every week we can learn faster/easier how much is too much. We can also document when we did mistakes, have breakthrough session, what leaded to it, etc. and that's our choice.

From a coach perspective having athletes using these tools is VERY helpful for ME. Unfortunately I don’t have the luxury to train every day with my guys and I have to rely on their training logs, power/GPS files and emails/phone calls to gain a better insight and learn about them as athletes. Through trial and error I have to push them to points they didn’t  push before and find out before he/she gets injured or over trained, how much is too much while at the same time they cope with other life priorities. Using these tools definitely makes my life less complicated!

At the extreme that you are making it sound I am not so sure, in that case why do you have logs? Do you go back to analyze the data for the week, month or year and make adjustments to benefit your future training? Why did you buy swimming tools? Why did you get a new tri bike? Because you can and/or want and that is YOUR choice right? Plus it might help in one way or another for your training from as simple as giving you extra motivation to go out and train.

Some want to make it look likes it should be old school vs old school (which is amusing to me). Why it is not possible to enjoy benefits from both schools? In one way we can just shut up and train consistent and on the other we can use the tools to make that training better. In the end, it is all about training, because if you don’t do the work you won’t improve, but training tools shouldn’t be a substitute for training but they can be a great complement.

LaurenSU02 - 2008-01-07 1:14 PM

Jedi - 2008-01-07 12:56 PM I am a beginner in triathlons and i do find it a little intimidating. especially knowing i will never be able to afford it all... especially coaching someone posted that if i want to consider a half ironman i would need a tri bike and i only have a second hand road bike makes me consider just wanting to continue running as it seems simpler

You DO NOT need a tri bike to do a half ironman. You will be totally fine on a road bike (although probably better off with clip-on aerobars). I did a half on a road bike and did just fine. I know someone who qualified for Half Ironman World Championships on a road bike with clip-on aerobars. You're fine. No worries. Work towards doing the half and have a blast !

X2.  I did my 1st HIM in 2007 with a $800 roadie and clip-ons - 2:53 on the bike split too.

With regard to swim toys.  I made a decision to leave my fins, bouy, paddles in the closet for a month - it was liberating. 

I do have a HRM that I feel is extremely valuable for training and racing, especially on the run.  I feel HRM training and racing helped me PR by 6 minutes at my last 1/2 marathon.   Understanding that my LT was about 168-169 helped my race execution imensely.

Plan:

1. start easy keeping at low end of Z4
2. pick up to upper Z4 at about halfway
3. kick it in to 5k effort for last three miles

Execution:

I agree!  I have great time seeing how my body responds while using training toys.  I don't use them all the time, though.  Sometimes I'm not "training" and instead I'm just out having fun.  On a side note.  One time I forgot my watch at a 10 mile running race.  I was mad at myself but I just decided to run a comfortable hard pace.  I didn't do my best (or worst) but I had a good time.