To Newton or Not To Newton (Page 2)

x2.  We like drinking the Kool-Aid.

Yeah, but that's because "they" say drinking Kool-Aid makes me fast. And aero.

Dan Empfield from Slowtwitch has an article that says Kool-Aid can actually save you 34 seconds in a 40kTT if you drink it from a dimpled waterbottle. According to John Cobb, Kool-Aid tests better in the wind tunnel than any other fruit flavoured dry-powdered beverage, and Tom Demerly of Bike Sport Michigan says it's easier to be fit for Kool-Aid than either ice tea or lemonade. And speaking of Slowtwitch, I don't know who Paulo is but he drinks Kool-Aid and swears by it.

So if they all say it, it must be true. Especially 'cause I googled it.

oh and btw, I am a heel to mid foot striker...

Here.

Here. 

Lastly, here.

Footstrike and cadence are the two most overly analyzed subjects in running.  And they are the two most unnecessary things to worry about for the majority.

Turning this into a mid-foot strike versus heel-strike debate it appears ..........

Read the links Scout posted, make your own interpretations and get out there running.

The top runners (marathoners, 10kers, ultra distance) all end up with a very similar gait and strike over time.  There may be subtle differences and it may appear that some strike heel first while others appear to strike in the mid-foot region "flat" but the reality is ..... they are ALL landing with their foot undeneath them and not out in front.  THAT is what causes injury and excessive resistance that a novice runner battles.  Not which part of their foot hits firsts.

And, to me, I disagree with using a shoe to do so.  Of course, I also disagree with the idea that you need to do anything about it, anyway. 

2 Things.
First I wear them and I am on my 2nd pair and I do love them. I do like a lighter shoe with not much heel and these are great. I am a mid foot striker and try to spend time working on my form when it falls apart. Running technique is just like swimming or biking technique, you do have to work at it and not just one or two times. I read that Craig Alexander spent 4 years working on his running form (Newton wearer by the way) so he could improve. So I agree they work for some people just like any shoe (I canot wear Nikes at all) and I have ran up to 14 miles in them with no problem. So while they are not a fix all, they do work for some and there is good biomechanics behind the design of the shoe. My wife has done 30 miles in them and didnt have any problem, she is mostly a front foot striker (her heel alomost never hits the ground, you can look at the bottom of her shoes and tell with no wear). Also the the shoes are good for 300-500 miles but so is every other shoe out there, so they dont really wear any faster; 300 miles is 300 miles. Yes I know some have had issues with them falling apart but I have with regular shoes and it is my understanding that Newton is good about fixing them.

Now my big 2nd, I am amazed at the amount of people who have never tried them and think they are a gimmick or a waste of time and money. It is those same people who will spend 2K on race wheels to save 5 minutes on the bike but you get down on someone who spends $175 to save maybe 5 minutes on the run or at least not be as tired after the run or not have feet or leg issues. To me the shoes are no different than a aero helmet or race wheels, or for that matter tri specific bike shoes. Yea you may have to replace the shoes more often but if they make you faster, stronger, or just make you want to run more; which will get you faster. It is no different than a product for swimming or biking, if it gets you out there more. If you have not tried them dont give your advice because you know nothing about the product and dont knock someone for buying a product that makes the person think it is helping them, why discourage someone from buying something that will make them better at this sport and yes if you talk about how stupid the shoes are or how "gimmicky" they are, you are discouraging the people who might buy them in hopes of running more.

If you have not worn or tried a item just keep your trap shut.... If you dont like them and have worn them, then THAT is very helpful. And as for the articles on which way to run, every coach has a different philosophy so hanging your hat on one article and then telling everyone else that they are doing it wrong is not the answer either. You can ask 10 coaches about the same subject and I bet you would get at least 4 different answers.

If you are interested in Newtons, try them for yourself, if you are interested any other products ask for feedback but please make up your own mind after trying the product.

My rant is now off....

First, race wheels will last until you sell them .... some people go through shoes in a month and a half to two months (350 - 400 miles) and regardless of whether or not someone has used them, based on the information provided by people that have, the Newtons do not last that long.  THAT is a big chunk of change if you go through 5 or 6 pairs of shoes a year.  In your own experience they may have lasted longer, but that is not the norm based on the information out there.

Second .... there is no proven benefit to them.  They will not make you run faster, they will not give you better form and they will not magically correct a runners gait and stride issues.  That's just marketing bullsh-t and until it is proven otherwise should be taken with a grain of salt.  I sat at the booth at IMFL and listened to the owner talk to people and I watched them run up and down the road in them.  Yes, my curiousity was peaked, but so was my common sense, especially after having the opportunity to listen to some really fast people I really respect in the sport give their opinions on them.

What I usually see are one of two responses to Newtons.  1) Very honest reviews from people that saw or recorded no real gain in splits or leg "freshness." And 2) People who extoll their vitrues up and down and say how they have made these huge leaps and bounds in the shoes ...... usually to justify to themselves that they wasted close to $200 on shoes.

If someone wants a shoe with minimal heel support and lightweight, they can run in flats and get them for about $60 or so.  They'll last the same timeframe, be lighter and "faster" than the Newtons and accomplish the same basic things.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and yours is just as valid/invalid as the next persons.  But no one has the "right" to tell other people to not dicuss them if they've never tried them.  That's just bogus.  I had not tried every bike in the industry, but I sure knew enough about them to intelligently discuss with my customers my opinion on the advantages (or disadvantages) the products I sold versus those other manufacturers.

Edit: Not too mention, if they were so wonderful and made so many gains, why is it only the tri field uses them?  why do you never see professional runners in them?  They've been out enough and gotten enough exposure that if they really did what they said, every elite marathoner out there would be screaming to get sponsored by them or run in them.

Well of course Jorge you are the exception....

try them or not try them... I am actually talking specifically about the people who will ask "have you tried this so and so" and then someone gets on and says " I have not tried them but IMO I think they are stupid because of this"... It happens all the time and yes I understand that it is a public forum and you get all kinds of answers but if you ask for a specific answer i.e if you like the shoes, wheels, or even shirt and to answer I dont have it but I think this; is just plain silly and a waste of the OP time UNLESS you know something from a specific instance i.e. Dans (Marvenetts post).

And I didnt claim nor do I think Newtons claim to change your gait, stride over night.... and yes it does take a long time to change it. But there are a lot of newbies that run wrong and cause themselves injury and if the shoes help change that for the good, then well they are worth the money.

I am glad your style works for you but there have been endless studies on how running more effeciently (i,e like the Africans, kenyans etc...) can conserve energy which will make you have a faster over all time.

Jorge I wasnt attacking your posts specifically, I was just pointing out there are a lot of people who give advice without trying a product or knocking the product without have to try it.
It kind of reminds me of when I was a kid and was offered cooked carrots and I said "god I hate those, no way they are nasty" and the person said, have you ever tried them and I said "well no".... I still hate them now but I had to at least taste them to give em a shot.  

No worries I didn't take it that way Just saying that as long as posters provide thoughtful opinions the OP can benefit and then make his/her own mind.

1) Once again, the shoes can't change that, only the runner can.

2) And all of those studies will difinitively show that running economy and efficiency has everything to do with miles miles miles ...... not how their foot strikes (heel, mid or toe) and especially not what shoe they run in.  Which makes the discussion in the thread about foot strike extremely relevant and important for those "newbies" you are pointing out to read.  Running economy is something you get over tons of miles of running as your body becomes more efficient.  If if a new runner was to mimic the elites in their running style, they will still not be as efficient and have the running economy that the elites do.  That simply takes years to develop and is centered around both muscular and neuro-muscular adaptations.  And once again, a shoe design will not help - and has nothing to do with - that ........