Who does flip turns and why? (Page 2)

I do flip turns as it keeps the rythem of a swim and doesn't break it up as much as stopping, touching the wall and turning around.  I come from a competitive swimming background so flip are actually more natural/comfortable than any other method.

That being said, aside from keeping a more smooth transition between laps to mimick a long distance swim, it obviously is not the same as an OWS.  There is no nice black line to follow on the bottom of a lake, no crystal clear water (at least here in Ontario.)  So if the point is to mimic an OWS, there are a lot of other factors much more important than a flip turn.

If you have the opportunity, use a long distance pool (50m) instead of a short distance (25m).  And if you don't do a flip turn, when you touch the wall...TOUCH the wall and start turning around.  Resist the urge to Grab the edge and give yourself a 1/2 second of "rest" and leverage to move yourself around.  Grabbing is a cardinal sin!

If you have the chance to learn flip turns by all means do.  If you can control your breathing and apce properly they are way more efficient than just touching the wall. Not only for front crawl, but for back stroke as well!

^^^ This is the best reason to work on flip turns - to put you into a bit of oxygen debt and stress your aerobic system.  I would add that it's not just a newbie thing...as an experienced swimmer, a flip turn puts me into far more oxygen debt than an open turn.

Very good post.  The willingness to cut corners simply because you do three sports instead of one does not make any of the three better.  I don't really care if you biked 50 miles yesterday and are running 10 miles tomorrow, make today's swim important and do what it takes.

I don't think the excuse was that someone was a triathlete.  I think they said they didn't do it because they didn't think it would benefit them in OWS.  I do them sometimes but I get water in my ears (I know I should get ear plugs). 

They can benefit you in OWS like others have said because you don't have a wall so there is no stopping at the wall even for a brief second.  You must keep swimming and no short breaks.  Of course in OWS you also don't have a wall to push and glide off, so I don't think you can compare times.

my primary reason for learning to do a flip turn (about 2 weeks ago) is because i got tired of my 14 year old swimming genius stepson making fun of me for not knowing how. 

also, i get nervous in the water, so i figure anything i can do to make me more comfortable is a good thing. flip turns make me hold my breath longer and have taught me to better identify where my body is underwater (i did a lot of sideways flipping at first). 

so those two things, combined with making my sets run more smoothly are the reasons why i do flip turns

Glide?  There's no glide off a wall.  Walls are where you make your money in swimming.  

My reasons

1) There is no disadvantage to doing flip turns.

2) It allows to better blend in to masters programs

3) It allows to set better times when competing in masters races that can be used to measure progress and set threshold pace. I use masters 1500 races to set my T pace

4) They actually make a work out more challenging. That extra breath you take when doing an open turn makes it easier

There are no disadvantages to doing them. Even if you don't participate in master today, you may want to eventually. Why not learn how to do it more efficiently ?

If you don't strive to eventually learn all the advanced skills in each of the 4 disciplines (I'm including transitions), then you will never achieve your potential as a triathlete.

This doesn't mean you need to learn flip turns as soon as you start swimming, but it does mean that once you learn the fundamentals, you should start doing them.  It makes you a better all-around swimmer, because it teaches you what a streamlined body position feels like, how to be comfortable and not freak out when you get dunked for a few seconds during a mass start, and it gives you confidence in your abilities which makes the swim more fun.

It's the same argument for learning to ride in a pace line even though drafting isn't allowed in most tri's: It makes you a better cyclist, which makes you a better triathlete.  Flip turns make you a better swimmer, which makes you a better triathlete.

Before I did flip-turns, I got a break every 50 seconds when I grabbed the wall. That didn't seem like a good way to train, and it didn't seem like it would prepare me well for an OWS.

They're not that tough. Watch a youtube video, then after your next swim spend 5 or 10 minutes just pushing off, swimming back, flipping, repeat. That'll get the mechanics down. Then for a couple swim sessions, flip only at one side of the pool or only when you're not feeling hypoxic. You might miss the wall once or twice, it's OK. Within a few weeks, you'll flip at every wall, and I bet you'll like it.

All that said, I ingrained flip turns about a year before bilateral breathing, and in retrospect, that was the wrong order. I'd learn bilateral breathing first for sure, both for stroke balance, and so you can comfortably breathe on either side in the case of glare, chop, a neighboring swimmer, etc.

I need to do them, like someone posted before, that push off is like a break and its not good OWS training.  I've learned to do them but they are so bad I go back to just doing a normal turn.  

How bad are my flip turns?  I once went straight into the pool floor and another time went into the other lane.  Yes, that bad

The only reason I do flip turns (and I only do them when I feel like it) is to help me with my breathing.  Otherwise it doesn't matter.  There are drills you can do where you breath on every 5th, 7th, or 9th stroke that helps with anaerobic workouts, so flip turns aren't necessary.  But they do help you get used to less breathes.

But it's not going to make a whole lot of difference.

I do flip turns because I have yet to find an open water swim that I can grab a wall and take a big breath every 25 yards, so flip turns end up being better if you are swimming open water.

On a side note, I do a swim clinic every year for a local sprint race for first timers. Without exception, I get a few (conditioned) swimmers who won't make the buoy turn out into the middle of the lake because they will get too far from the bulkhead wall.  A little dependance on open turns and resting too often perhaps?

<---- non flip turner.

i never swam competitivly , its not going to help my ows . i dont know how to do them and id rather spend my time actually swimming than learning how to flip turn.

I started doing flip turns last year and found that it's made a big difference in my swim fitness.  The ability to do an uninterupted set is much better prep for open water than stopping every 25yds.  It also allows me to get into a good rhythm, which stopping at each would always interupt. 

Now, my flip turns are ugly and would embarrass any real swimmer but they work!

It's a dangerous idea to do those drills. Would you hold your breath doing running intervals? It will certainly not help with swimming and it may very well hurt.

Other than that, I am in complete agreement with the really good triathletes and coaches here, where the consensus is: flip turns, for all of the reasons that have been stated.

Thanks a bunch guys for all the great input. I am perfectly comfortable in the water. I have no problem deciding what I want to do and what I don't want to do. I'm glad I asked the question.

I try pretty hard no to take a "rest" at the wall. I try to be as fast as possible. But funny some have said... because yes I do take a nice big breath of air. So while flips might not be a skill needed in OWS, it does indeed seem there are plenty of good reasons for them.

Alright... I guess I will have to look like a bigger dork for a while till I get good at them. Perhaps it is a good time too. With my big race coming up.. I have got into the mindset of doing lots of hard yardage. Watched some TI videos and now want to work on efficiency. Nothing I didn't know before, not that TI is end all be all, but I do need to be more mindfull of my stroke. So I think it would be a good time to slow down and get some rhythm.

Touche. Me neither then, I guess. Sometimes I do them for fun out in the ocean to reverse direction, though. Replicates the dizziness/disorientation of a race OWS pretty well, especially if you're tired.

You bring up a really good point. A snappy open turn takes technique and practice (like it used to in old backstroke rules ... now I'm really dating myself). One might as well just learn a flip turn, then.