Serious Q: Down syndrome and abortion (Page 2)

Good Lord.......God bless you Writebrained.  As the adoptive father of a "perfect" beautiful now three year old girl I have  to admit I was/am not ready to adopt a special needs child.   Thank you for sharing your story.  It so good to hear the experiences of selfless people.  You are the salt of the earth my friend.   You and your wife deserve all the love your son gives you.

I've tried to stay away from this thread, but have thought a lot about it since I first saw it yesterday. I think, really, the only meaningful posts are from those who have directly experienced this situation. I tryly believe that you can postulate and theorize all you want, but until you are in that situation, you don't and can't know exactly how you would handle it. There are way too many variables involved.

When I was 23, my then-girlfirend and I had a pretty memorable coversation. She was drunk and Roman Catholic, so I should have steered clear. But she asked me point blank what I would do if she got pregnant. Without even thinking about it, I said "I don't know." It probably sounded glib, but it was true. I was 23. I was the guy. I didn't know.

I think the same is true here...you don't ever really know until you're faced with the situation.

We also have a niece with Downs named Kate. She just turned 22. My wife helped her older sister with baby sitting and such when Kate was younger. So, we know the joys and the particular struggles of raising a child with Downs, at least as far as being an aunt and uncle goes.

We've never done any prenatal testing for any of our children, although I know that some Downs advocates suggest testing so that you can be more emotionally ready when your baby is born. If our baby did have Downs and we knew of it, we certainly would have had him.

Persons with Downs have as much a right to life as anyone else.

Thanks for bringing this subject up, auto208562. Selective abortion is a subject that is not talked about enough.

I'm also struck by your self description of being raised in a "'right wing' ultra conservative buddism environment". That's something you don't hear everyday. I'd love to know more about that.

Some of us know our hearts and character quite well, Jim. Not all of us equivocate about the big issues in life.

Knowing what the right thing to do is easy. Doing the right thing isn't always easy.

That was sort of my point. It is hard to do the "right" thing. Until you're in a situation, you don't *really* know how you'll handle that situation. I think you know how you'd *like* to handle it, but when faced with the moment, well, all bets are off.

ANd what was the right thing in your theorizing, might not be the same right thing when faced with all of the variables specific to that situation at that time and at that place.

It's not hard for some of us. Doing the wrong thing is very hard for some of us, impossible even.

If you have the courage of your convictions, it's easy. Do you have courage? I do and I have no qualms or hesitation about saying I have courage.

auto208562:

I said yesterday I was offended by this thread.  Upon reflection, I was wrong.  To not talk about things like Down Syndrome, adoption, etc just enables ignorance.  Your thread has generated some valuable discussion.  Thanks!

Having known and worked with many people with all sorts of developmental disabilities and their families who required anywhere from next to none to almost complete assistance, I can tell you that your means of measuring the human worth and quality of life of people you've never met are extremely flawed. You appear to have little real knowledge of these people.

If you're talking about infants, there aren't 'enough regular kids out there that need to be adopted.' Not by a long shot. Once they're no longer babies it's next to impossible to get anyone interested in adopting a child. Many adoption agencies, however, report waiting lists of 10-15 families who are looking to adopt an infant with Downs syndrome.  One does not affect the other, or if it does, the effect is minimal at best.

In the U.S. for maybe 20 years the ideal of one working parent actually existed. Human history shows most family members working sunup to sundown, including children. Even handicapped ones. 

Our second daughter came to us via adoption. We're fortunate that she has no disabilities, but her gender and health status were unknown to us at the time the decision was made and they were completely irrelevant.

Sheila, Sean sounds like a cool kid.

Wow!!!  This thread has blown me away with its sincerity, honesty and sensitivity.  Thanks to all who shared.

I echo Jim's sentiments, but I would explain it slightly differently.  I believe, with every ounce of my being, that only the people involved can decide for themselves.  If you believe you have the right to tell someone else they have to have that child, where will you be in the toughest moments of those parents's lives down the road?  Each person has to find the strength to make that decision for themselves because in the darkest, most difficult times ahead of them they will also have to find the strength within themselves to carry on.  In some ways this is no different than parenting any other child, but I would think that in other ways it is worlds apart.  I don't really know how to explain that last part, but this is what I believe.

I have been through enough situations (our third is due in April) with fertility and tough pregnancies that we have been close enough to start the conversation but never had to finish it.  This is such a volatile subject I commend everyone for treating it with the respect it deserves.

I am curious about something.  The OP states how you were raised, auto208562, but I'm not sure you ever stated where you stand on the issue now?  Do you still feel that way?  And on another note, if anyone is currently in a situation like this and they would like people to communicate with on the web, my wife has some very supportive websites related to fertility and pregnancy issues she frequents.  I'd be happy to pass them along to anyone who pm's me.  They have been very helpful for her/us.

If you are referring to religion, I am not buddhist and the religious beliefs I were taught have become less a part of me as once were.  I do have a tendency to believe in reincarnation that previous lives do affect current or future lives.  I would probably be classified as agnostic (not atheist). 

In regards to the specific issue of down syndrome and abortion, I'm undecided.  One side of me, probably because of my upbringing, agrees with most people that replied to this thread in a positive manner.  Another side of me, what I have learned and exprienced through life, has made me a more practical, logical, and probably a less sensitive person that I have grown to become. 

Don, you're right that our culture needs to be changed to support this kind of thing. Ours was the situation you describe. It was an in-family adoption.

Unfortunately, in my experience, your tendency towards compassion and appreciation for the pregnant woman in this situation is not the norm.

Like other younger girls, ours will play 'mommy' and put a doll under their shirt and pretend to be pregnant. Frequently they'll do this and pretend to be carrying a baby for each other, which is completely normal to them. It's just one of the ways families are created. 

It's astounding to me how many adults try to correct them when they do this and say things like "no that's not right, people don't do that" or "honey that's not the way it works".

I can't tell you where the statistics came from since it was a verbal debate.  I would suspect that 92% is, if not accurate, is very close to accurate.  If you do a search on the web, you will find statistics close to this figure when prenatal screening is used and down syndrome is a possibility. 

I will try to generalize what and where I think that 92% is coming from.  I think our society as a whole has become one that strives for a Hollywood sense of perfection and superficiality.  You see reality shows of people getting plastic surgery and taking drugs like steriods to get the perfect body.  We care more about what people think and do, and less of what our better judgment decides. 

We are also a society that is one that does not like to work.  Just look at our obesity and diabetic rates. We'd rather sit on a couch and watch hours of TV than do any exercise.  We'd rather drive 3 blocks to the local store to pick up a coke (instead of a juice) than drive the very short distance.

These factors, and probably many more I just can't think of right now, I think that as a majority slice of the population, this sense of perfection, superficiality, and 'convenience' factor spills over to how and what people may think.  If you have a child with down syndrome people may laugh, people may snicker, people may think there is something wrong with you for having a baby with down syndrome. It may be considered a burden, something that will ruin people's sense of comfort and enjoyment.   

I think the people that replied to this thread, though seem overwhelming in support of down syndrome and not aborting, I think it is not a fair or accurate statistic.  Though anonymous, there is some identification (especially if you are a paying member) and the 92% will not post negatively on this thread for the fear of getting flamed or disliked.  Only the minority has come out in overwhelming force but I still think that the numbers are greater in favor of abortion if there is prenatal screening of down syndrome.  Unfortunately, that's how our society is.