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2012-04-13 12:19 PM
in reply to: #4148297

Master
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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
moneyman - 2012-04-13 7:43 AM

gsmacleod - 2012-04-13 6:42 AM
tri-mama - 2012-04-12 3:58 PM Use 22/7 for Pi
Wow! IMO this is totally unacceptable... Then again, I'm not much of a fan of the rest of the question either. Shane

Why?

The ancient Greeks, Chinese, Indians, and Persians, among others, used this approximation or its rough equivalent with great success for thousands of years.  I say if it was good enough for Archimedes, it is good enough for me.

 

That's sort of why I brought up the fractions thing.  Because they might be working on them at that age and the teacher might want them to do the whole problem without decimals.

Using the symbol for pi is moving ahead a bit.



2012-04-13 12:23 PM
in reply to: #4148757

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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
moneyman - 2012-04-13 2:15 PM

The only question is how precise you want to be.



Precisely; based on the other values in the question, it would make sense to use an approximation of pi that is more precise than the other given values.

Of course nobody uses the exact value of pi since we don't know it; however, one can always choose a value of pi that is known more precisely than any other information we are putting into an equation.

I have no issue with approximations and use them all the time with my students; however I believe that it is important for students to learn that a value that we know with great precision should never be a limiter in the precision of our answers.

Shane
2012-04-13 12:23 PM
in reply to: #4148757

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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
moneyman - 2012-04-13 10:15 AM
Maui - 2012-04-13 11:05 AM
moneyman - 2012-04-13 7:43 AM

gsmacleod - 2012-04-13 6:42 AM
tri-mama - 2012-04-12 3:58 PM Use 22/7 for Pi
Wow! IMO this is totally unacceptable... Then again, I'm not much of a fan of the rest of the question either. Shane

Why?

The ancient Greeks, Chinese, Indians, and Persians, among others, used this approximation or its rough equivalent with great success for thousands of years.  I say if it was good enough for Archimedes, it is good enough for me. 

Why? Because it is a rough equivalent, not the real value.

You let me know when you find the real value.  Last I checked, mathmagicians were still looking for it.  They were at a trillion digits and still counting.

You sound like my 9 year old, who hates to estimate.  I have told him that EVERYTHING is an estimate.  The only question is how precise you want to be.

Don't be so square minded. You know what I meant for "real."

3.141592 is a better approximation than 3.142857.

It is fine to estimate "1 cup of sugar" for your super pie recipe. It is not fine to estimate (or, so you understand, estimate with the less margin of error possible) if you are building a bridge, designing a building, launching a rocket, etc.

 

Edit:

Thanks, Shane. For saying what I wanted to say in a more eloquent and classy way.



Edited by Maui 2012-04-13 12:26 PM
2012-04-13 12:40 PM
in reply to: #4148772

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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
Maui - 2012-04-13 11:23 AM
moneyman - 2012-04-13 10:15 AM
Maui - 2012-04-13 11:05 AM
moneyman - 2012-04-13 7:43 AM

gsmacleod - 2012-04-13 6:42 AM
tri-mama - 2012-04-12 3:58 PM Use 22/7 for Pi
Wow! IMO this is totally unacceptable... Then again, I'm not much of a fan of the rest of the question either. Shane

Why?

The ancient Greeks, Chinese, Indians, and Persians, among others, used this approximation or its rough equivalent with great success for thousands of years.  I say if it was good enough for Archimedes, it is good enough for me. 

Why? Because it is a rough equivalent, not the real value.

You let me know when you find the real value.  Last I checked, mathmagicians were still looking for it.  They were at a trillion digits and still counting.

You sound like my 9 year old, who hates to estimate.  I have told him that EVERYTHING is an estimate.  The only question is how precise you want to be.

Don't be so square minded. You know what I meant for "real."

3.141592 is a better approximation than 3.142857.

It is fine to estimate "1 cup of sugar" for your super pie recipe. It is not fine to estimate (or, so you understand, estimate with the less margin of error possible) if you are building a bridge, designing a building, launching a rocket, etc.

 

Edit:

Thanks, Shane. For saying what I wanted to say in a more eloquent and classy way.

The OP's question was related to the diameter of a bicycle wheel, not launching a rocket.

Using 22/7 would be more than sufficiently precise, as it would already give you an answer that would be beyond the precision of any common measuring device.

When launching a rocket, 3.141592 would not be sufficiently precise.

2012-04-13 12:43 PM
in reply to: #4146634

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Master
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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP

Error analysis theory says to use only the number of significant figures that your least accurate data point is.  Measurement in this case is limited by the accuracy of your yard stick, or what ever device is used to measure the distance.

 

2012-04-13 12:48 PM
in reply to: #4148818

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Los Angeles
Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
moneyman - 2012-04-13 10:40 AM
Maui - 2012-04-13 11:23 AM
moneyman - 2012-04-13 10:15 AM
Maui - 2012-04-13 11:05 AM
moneyman - 2012-04-13 7:43 AM

gsmacleod - 2012-04-13 6:42 AM
tri-mama - 2012-04-12 3:58 PM Use 22/7 for Pi
Wow! IMO this is totally unacceptable... Then again, I'm not much of a fan of the rest of the question either. Shane

Why?

The ancient Greeks, Chinese, Indians, and Persians, among others, used this approximation or its rough equivalent with great success for thousands of years.  I say if it was good enough for Archimedes, it is good enough for me. 

Why? Because it is a rough equivalent, not the real value.

You let me know when you find the real value.  Last I checked, mathmagicians were still looking for it.  They were at a trillion digits and still counting.

You sound like my 9 year old, who hates to estimate.  I have told him that EVERYTHING is an estimate.  The only question is how precise you want to be.

Don't be so square minded. You know what I meant for "real."

3.141592 is a better approximation than 3.142857.

It is fine to estimate "1 cup of sugar" for your super pie recipe. It is not fine to estimate (or, so you understand, estimate with the less margin of error possible) if you are building a bridge, designing a building, launching a rocket, etc.

 

Edit:

Thanks, Shane. For saying what I wanted to say in a more eloquent and classy way.

The OP's question was related to the diameter of a bicycle wheel, not launching a rocket.

Using 22/7 would be more than sufficiently precise, as it would already give you an answer that would be beyond the precision of any common measuring device.

When launching a rocket, 3.141592 would not be sufficiently precise.

 

Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.



2012-04-13 1:02 PM
in reply to: #4148843

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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP

Now you are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Your kidding me, right?  This is COJ.  Of course I am. 

The funny thing is that I was having this same discussion with my 9 year old just yesterday.  He truly hates to estimate.  He always wants to have the precise answer.  I tried to explain to him, without success so far, that knowing how to get the most accurate answer posssible is important, being able to estimate is also an important skill, but having the judgement to tell which is needed at the time is the most important of all.

2012-04-13 1:11 PM
in reply to: #4146634

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Pro
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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP

It's amazing how many people don't even know what "pi" is.  If you ask people what pi is they always say 3.14, and if you ask them why is it 3.14 and how do they come up with that you get a blank stare.

Pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter.  (C/d)

2012-04-13 1:20 PM
in reply to: #4148827

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Elite
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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
MadMathemagician - 2012-04-13 12:43 PM

Error analysis theory says to use only the number of significant figures that your least accurate data point is.  Measurement in this case is limited by the accuracy of your yard stick, or what ever device is used to measure the distance.

 

Hooray for me! I was thinking significant figures before I read your post. So yes, the approximation for pi is appropriate in this case.

2012-04-13 1:23 PM
in reply to: #4148904

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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
tuwood - 2012-04-13 2:11 PM

It's amazing how many people don't even know what "pi" is.  If you ask people what pi is they always say 3.14, and if you ask them why is it 3.14 and how do they come up with that you get a blank stare.

Pi is the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter.  (C/d)

Pie is a circle until I cut a slice or two.

2012-04-13 2:25 PM
in reply to: #4148818

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Sneaky Slow
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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
moneyman - 2012-04-13 1:40 PM 

The OP's question was related to the diameter of a bicycle wheel, not launching a rocket.

Using 22/7 would be more than sufficiently precise, as it would already give you an answer that would be beyond the precision of any common measuring device.

When launching a rocket, 3.141592 would not be sufficiently precise.

Ya know, you really could have saved the Dear Leader or Great Fearless Courageous Leader (or whatever they're calling Kim Jong-un these days) a lot of trouble if you had let him know this fact, because I'm pretty sure they used 22/7 for this latest rocket launch of theirs.



2012-04-13 2:26 PM
in reply to: #4149137

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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
tealeaf - 2012-04-13 3:25 PM
moneyman - 2012-04-13 1:40 PM 

The OP's question was related to the diameter of a bicycle wheel, not launching a rocket.

Using 22/7 would be more than sufficiently precise, as it would already give you an answer that would be beyond the precision of any common measuring device.

When launching a rocket, 3.141592 would not be sufficiently precise.

Ya know, you really could have saved the Dear Leader or Great Fearless Courageous Leader (or whatever they're calling Kim Jong-un these days) a lot of trouble if you had let him know this fact, because I'm pretty sure they used 22/7 for this latest rocket launch of theirs.

^^ Heh heh Score!!!

2012-04-13 2:37 PM
in reply to: #4149142

Master
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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
trinnas - 2012-04-13 12:26 PM
tealeaf - 2012-04-13 3:25 PM
moneyman - 2012-04-13 1:40 PM 

The OP's question was related to the diameter of a bicycle wheel, not launching a rocket.

Using 22/7 would be more than sufficiently precise, as it would already give you an answer that would be beyond the precision of any common measuring device.

When launching a rocket, 3.141592 would not be sufficiently precise.

Ya know, you really could have saved the Dear Leader or Great Fearless Courageous Leader (or whatever they're calling Kim Jong-un these days) a lot of trouble if you had let him know this fact, because I'm pretty sure they used 22/7 for this latest rocket launch of theirs.

^^ Heh heh Score!!!

C'mon you know he did that on purpose to make the USA *think* we're safe.

2012-04-13 8:46 PM
in reply to: #4148827

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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
MadMathemagician - 2012-04-13 1:43 PM

Error analysis theory says to use only the number of significant figures that your least accurate data point is.  Measurement in this case is limited by the accuracy of your yard stick, or what ever device is used to measure the distance.

But Pi is not a data point.  It's an irrational constant.

2012-04-13 9:14 PM
in reply to: #4146634

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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
As a former math major all I can say is...............snerk.............and thanks for the giggles
2012-04-13 9:21 PM
in reply to: #4149765

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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
TriRSquared - 2012-04-13 9:46 PM
MadMathemagician - 2012-04-13 1:43 PM

Error analysis theory says to use only the number of significant figures that your least accurate data point is.  Measurement in this case is limited by the accuracy of your yard stick, or what ever device is used to measure the distance.

But Pi is not a data point.  It's an irrational constant.

Never mind, I misread your post.  You are correct.  But we measured the road with a laser micrometer accurate to 0.000001"



2013-10-15 7:25 PM
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Subject: RE: Obviously I an NOT as smart as a 6th grader - MATH HELP
Pi is exactly 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-Y-ua3WBi4

Or this guy says you only need 39 digits. But the 39th digit is 0, so couldn't you say 38 digits? I'm just a golf pro, but???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpyrF_Ci2TQ&feature=player_detailpag...

Edited by pga_mike 2013-10-15 7:37 PM
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