Separation of Church and State? (Page 2)

There is a huge difference between teaching about how religions have shaped the world we live in and endorsing a specific biblical view, which is what the OP's link seems to be about.

I have no problem with my kids learning about how religions have affected cultures, and I would include the oldest ones in that - the Egyptian ideas that led to monotheism and the rise of the judeo-christian-islam abrahamic religions as well as the whole resurrection concept; the greek religions that also influenced the early jews; why Utah has so many Mormons and why Poland has so few Jews. How religion has done terrible things (e.g. Spanish Inquisition, the destruction of central and south american cultures) as well as great things (lots of arts, how Islam became the repository of western knowledge during the dark ages). How Buddhism arose out of Hinduism and subsequently how it shaped and was shaped in its transit across the asian continent.

But to teach "The Answer is in Genesis" crosses a big line. I believe that kids should be learning about the practice of religion from their families and, if applicable, their chosen house of worship.

And FWIW, atheists tend to be better read on various religions than religious individuals. Which makes sense. It is hard to form an informed decision without really examining the evidence and various points of view.

if you guys think that is rediculous you should check out this link:

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2012/06/03/over-100000-public-elementary-school-students-to-get-bible-lessons-on-killing-unbelievers/

personally i don't think the school being funded by state/federal money should do anything which seems to promote any religion.  any religion in schools should be purely educational and should cover many different beliefs without promoting any of them as facts.  like when greek/roman mythology is covered in class, so too should Christianity/Islam/Judaism

This one makes me wonder.  I know here, that a lot of churches rent out spaces in the public schools on the weekends and weeknights for their church services, etc.  I saw in the article that it is after school hours they would be doing this, so I am hoping that it would be given to students whose parents condone their participation, and not just random....I hope.  

Being of a non Christian faith, I still teach my children outside of school the importance of all religions and how they affect culture and beliefs.  I think they should be open minded and understand compassion, which is what I think most religions try to do in the first place, but I don't condone others pushing their beliefs on my children.  

I want my kids to make these choices for themselves with an open heart and an open mind with an educated decision, not because someone put fear into them.  Life should not be lived in fear of what will happen after death, it should be full of living, and understanding that others have the right to express themselves, but should not hurt others in the process.   

kids are at an impressionable age when they are in elementary school.  every time i think i might have kids one day it scares the hell out of me that they will be given to a school system for 8+ hours a day to "learn" whatever they are told by a person i know nothing about.  

anyone with kids who can chyme in on this? 

My daughter will be in second grade next year.  She is enrolled in public school, but I am a firm believer in also working with her at home.  I don't expect the school system to teach her all the things I want her to know.  We work on different themes each week to supplement her education from the school system.  

I have noticed a trend in schools where the parents expect the teachers to "raise" their children.  It is tough enough to teach 20 kids at one time in a classroom here while dealing with their behavior as well. I know there is only a certain amount of time to be spent on the basics.  

After this year, she will be losing her art and music programs, which is very important to me.  I am very involved in her schooling, know her teachers for the past few years and stayed prominent in her education.  I review her work, check in on her testing scores, and ensure that she is on track.  I think being proactive is key to my kids success.  

My first thought would be to investigate what they are actually teaching in science class.....   What do their science teachers have to say about these flyers - he/she should be fuming mad!   Genesis is a great read, but not for science class.

However, comparitive religions classes, lecture series, etc is an excellent thing to introduce kids to at some age.  We need to know more about each other, and yes, religions shape history.

based on my time going through public school in the south, it was obvious science teachers learned to hide how they really thought/knew to keep students from complaining and for them to keep their jobs.

that is sad.    

I am now going to follow up with my sister to check in on the science curriculum at here kids schools.....  even though they are north of the MD line.

It is scary and its really difficult for parents.  I do find it ironic that everyone is in an uproar when it comes to religious material coming home, but its totally fine to teach and preach about things like homosexuality, abortion, global warming, evolution, etc... 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree with those subjects, but in my opinion I think people take the separation of church and state to be more of a banning of all religion of any kind or context in schools or government.  My kids had to fight to have a private prayer group at school, but the school happily allowed a LGBT group and even fought against concerned parents.

So, back to the OP I have no problem with anybody sending home christian flyers, muslim fliers, athiest fliers, or anything else.  I want my kids to make choices based on having all options available to them.  If they are sheltered in a world where they only get the politically correct choices to choose from I think that's a bad thing.

I have two school-age children, and I don't find this difficult at all. I don't find it threatening that my children may be exposed to ideas and concepts which conflict which ideas they already have. It's called learning and allowing them to formulate their own ideas on things. I want my children to use the mind that Goddess gave them and be independent thinkers. There is no better way to become a thinker than to have your own beliefs and prejudices challenged.

I don't know if the subjects you mentioned are being taught and "preached" in the schools. Either way, comparing education on these subjects to religious education is an attempt to compare apples and oranges.   Certain religious groups would like to make them apples and apples because of their beliefs, but that does not make them apples.

No "preaching" about the scientifically proven concept of evolution has gone on, other than the fact that the science of it is taught, just like any other scientific concept. The religious powers-that-be were miffed years and years ago when some starting saying that the Earth orbited the Sun. This is no different.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that teaching religion in a historical context is OK, just as, say, the history of a certain political movement or philosophy is fine. I do agree that some people take this "separation" to extremes.

Again, apples and oranges. 

I'm curious; what were these parents concerned about?

To me, this comment doesn't follow from the rest of your post. Your post talks about being scared about some of the things that children are exposed to in school, but then this comment implies that not being exposed to many things is bad. Those two ideas don't go together.... ?

well said - i was going to say almost the same thing.  it IS scary what are kids are taught in school.  hence why we have chosen to home school our kids.  good luck to those in the Government run education system.  it's more indoctrination than education.

I was going to reply, but Shane said almost exactly what I would say. What bothers me is that the school is sending home the flyers, which is a form of endorsement, and especially for an organization that is strongly anti-evolution.

I have no issue with the facilities being used for religious activities during non-school hours, as long as they are truly open to all faiths. 83% of Americans follow a religious denomination, it would be foolish to pretend this is not reality. Just like I believe that a comparative religions class would go a long way towards teaching tolerance. Education trumps ignorance.

My point wasn't that children should be sheltered from points of view on things to reinforce the parents belief system it was quite the opposite.  I'm merely saying that currently in our schools my children are being influenced and taught about things that I don't necessarily agree with (which i don't really have a problem with) but the things I do agree with are being forced out of schools with the separation of church and state argument so the end result is they get a one sided view of the world from the school system.  This in turn makes my job as a parent more challenging.

Its no secret that the majority of educators lean towards the progressive side of the political spectrum and I would feel a lot more comfortable as a parent if there was more balance.

I don't really want to get into the mud trying to debate global warming, evolution, etc... I was just trying to give an example of subjects that many people have alternate views and try to get balance put into the schools.  However, because "intelligent design" has a religious connotation it cannot be taught in public schools.  The net result is our kids don't get to formulate their own opinions and only get one side of the story told to them as "fact".

Hope that makes sense.

So you're saying it's OK to support LGBT, but not support those that are Christian?  Prayer groups can have a very positive impact on kids.  Many kids don't get a lot of support at home (my wife was one of those), and this type of thing was crucial to her growing into the great person she is today.

Yep.

By that line of thinking, string theory couldn't be taught as science either.  Since it cannot be observed or used to conduct verifiable experiments, string theory wouldn't be considered science.

But it is.

i'd say its not just what's taught, but also what is learned.  do i really need to make a list, or can you just look around at issues plaguing society, the workforce, and the home.

also, does it look like removing any talk of the one true God from our school system has helped us in the last 50 years?

we are now more concerned about teaching our kids it's OK for them to have sex with whichever gender they want, than we are with them learning anything at all about who their creator is and why we are here.