Are you better off than you were 4 years ago? (Page 2)

My home value has fallen or stayed where it is at. I pay more for food and gas. My healthcare costs have gone up every year. I have one more family member living with me. My wife has not been able to find meaningful employment with her degree. So far we have been unable to start a business she want... but still trying. My wages have stagnated.... even though I make more money now. I work really hard and with all the great help from the government they got me promoted.

Funny thing is... the candidate McCain ran probably one of the worst campaigns ever... right up there with Kerry... but the man and the politician McCain, is much better than that. I actually do think McCain would have done a better job... only based on his career as a moderate independent and not as the Right wing conservative puppet he played during the campaign. Obviously, pure speculation.

Do I think we will be better off in four more years with the same players... absolutely not. Do I think we will be better off in four more years with Romney... absolutely not... but I might be.

No... the American People did that... the government is just the middle man taking his cut for doing nothing.

And it was my tax dollars that paid for every bit of that.  The government is powerless without the taxpayer's money.

So what??? Then you tell me the point. What does it even matter in any discussion?

We can go all the way back to an ameba... do we owe everything to it? We can't live without food... do we owe our existence to vegetables?.. Sure we do... but what do we owe them... nothing.

The point as fas as I can tell that people try to push is that since I was afforded a great country to live in... then I somehow owe... what? I pay my taxes. I paid for those roads, I paid for those tanks, I paid for those regulations. They were not given to me, I paid for them. The people that came before me paid for what they used, as do I, as will the next guys. We paid for the country we have.

Yet somehow.. if I am successful, then somehow I owe more than those that are not. That I owe more than the person that pays no taxes and rides public transportation on public roads receiving public assistance. You tell me what I OWE my government.

2009: $11 trillion in debt

2012: $16 trillion in debt. 

End of story.

and the chineese...

Ha.. good point..

Wow does that mean the Chinese owe their success too to our Government? I mean it was the U.S. Gov that borrowed the money, that made Americans successful so we could buy the products made in the factories that employ the Chinese people.

Conversely, if the gov't gets the credit, then logically the gov't takes the blame?  So if I start a small business and fail, that is the gov'ts fault, and it should then owe me for its failure.  

Wait, that's not what "you didn't build that" meant???  

With or without zombies?

As I've been saying, there is no difference between the candidates. I have heard NOTHING from either side indicating any sort of a plan to deal with the zombie apocalypse. 

True, but planning takes a little bit of a turn depending on your projections.

Reporting in from the top 1%, we are doing way better.   The Bush era tax cuts that were continued as part of the President Obama stimulus packagge helped people in my tax bracket enormously.  Plus, the stock market is up.  My 401K has more than recovered from the Bush crash.  The trust fund is doing even better.  Our business income is great.  The past four years are the best we have ever had.  Of course, we are in the upper income bracket that benefits most from the Republican tax cut agenda.  In the last four years, we have gone from wealthy to very wealthy.

I think it is time to begin reeling in the stimulus and raise taxes.  Of course, we should raise taxes first on the people, like me, who have benefitted the most from the recovery.  I will gladly pay the tax increase on the wealthy that President Obama proposes because I do not want to see the cuts in programs that would result if we do not increase taxes. Those are important program in education, law enforcement, defense, and health and social welfare.  We are a stronger country with those programs than with them reduced.

The Gov. Romney's tax plan would do just the opposite of President Obama's.   Under Romney's plan (as well as it can be determined from his statements), taxes would rise for the middle class and people in my tax bracket would get an even bigger tax cut than we have already received.  People, I am doing great.  I don't need any more help, thanks. 

FTFY.

I don't understand why some people put out this idea that there is "the government" and there is "the people". As Lincoln said, it is "of the people, by the people, for the people" (or words to that effect). There is no secret cabal. There are a group of people we selected, and if we are too lazy to vote them out, we get what we ask for. 

It's like living in a condo, and never stepping up to serve on the board, but then complaining if the board decides to spend money on redecorating or on a new roof, or whatever. Some complaints may be reasonable, some may not. But if you don't bother to put in the face time to effect change, don't think you are being somehow bullied by those in power. 

If none of it matters (and all of it is a function of government) - either doesn't matter because you think it has always been so and never changed (you might want to look up who signed into place OSHA, the EPA, the consumer product safety commission - all things which help to make things safer and cleaner for workers, citizens, and consumers) or because you think they are unimportant, then it doesn't matter who is in office. 

If your life is better because you sell something that get to market on federally funded roads, with consumers trusting they are safe to use because of government regulations, and you trust that your funds are safely in a bank that has underwriting from the federal government (rather than keeping it all in your pockets or hidden around your home and office); because you oversee production of something by people who are trained to perform their jobs due to THEIR publicly funded or supported education, then you should be honest in admitted that without those things in place, you would not be as successful as you are.

OTOH, maybe you live in a shack in the woods that you have carved out with hand-hewn tools that you made yourself, with ores you dug out and smelted yourself, and truly have no interdependency on the rest of the world. But it does raise the question of how you are getting onto BT. Maybe a publicly funded library is allowing you access to their computers and internet (which of course exist in the cheap forms they do because of initial government interests)...

I'm not sure if that's really possible anymore considering how much money is required to win a political office.

So there has been several that say "yes, I'm doing better, but what about the future." or "yes, I'm doing better but what about 'WE' as a whole".  And that's really my point behind Romney framing his campaign with "Are you better off today than you were 4 years ago?"  Because me as a swing voter, if that's what you want me to vote on, guess what, you're not getting my vote.  You're not even coming close to getting my vote.  Frankly you couldn't have said anything worse to try to get my vote.  If you want my vote, then talk about us as a country and if we're better off, talk about our future (and then protect it).  techgeezer summed up my sentiments pretty well, and I'm not a 1%er.  Tax me more, that's fine, I'm willing to pay for it and I have it.  I value my police and fire and education for my kids (I've voted for property tax increases 3 times  in order to keep our schools funded).  Just be fair about it.  Frankly if a candidate told me he was going to raise taxes and cut spending, he'd get my vote in a heart beat.  I don't care what you've done for me lately, I care what you're going to do for the betterment of our society in the future.

There was a time when people (politicians) understood what happens today effects things 20 years down the road and it's important to stick with the course the last guy set.  Today they run it like a CEO at a big business.  Profits on a quarterly basis and deal with the problems later.  Leave it for the next guy.

No, not even close.  

Unfortunately I'm not sure it is getting better until the voters stop believing all the lies and put real business people in the White House and into congressional spots.  The country can't borrow it's way out of this mess, we need a business approach for improvement.

Why do so many people think that NOW is the time to try paying down the debt?!  The economy had tanked and unemployment is over 8%.  Yes, I'll say it...  Now is the time to stimulate, get the economy back on it's feet and GO INTO MORE DEBT!  We need to get people back to work and spending money first.  Once things stabilize, then worry about paying it off.  For example...

Let's say you have a $20,000 credit card bill.  (Don't get started on why it's not smart to have a credit card balance of that much.  That would be correct for individuals, but NOT for the government.)  AND YOU LOSE YOUR JOB.  So you have little to no income.  Is NOW the time to try and pay off that cc balance with money you don't have?  Or would it be better to work as hard as you can to find a job, start making income again, even if it means you cc balance goes up to $30,000 to pay for rent, food and gas?  After you get a new job, THEN you start paying it off.

The government isn't an individual and it's not designed or meant to make a "profit".  $16 trillion in debt is too much.  EVERYONE can agree on that.  But not having any debt isn't good fiscal policy either (for a government).  Now isn't the right time to be having the debt argument.  I believe in cutting spending, just not while the unemployment numbers are where they are.

The markets reflect this.  Talk of government stimulus makes the market go up.  Look at the reaction to the market from yesterday's EU CB announcement.  Gov't cut talks make the market fall and investors sell, Gov't spend talks make the market rise and investors buy.  It's a s simple as that.  When the economy improves and the gov't talks of deficit reduction in a GOOD economy, that will spur on markets as well.  The only way Clinton was able to turn a deficit into a surplus was because there was a good economy to support it at the time.

Now is not the time.  IMHO.