Irresponsible gun owners (Page 2)

There's really nothing to debate.  People have the right to bear arms.  Your list, statistically, represents close to zero when the number of guns and gun owners is taken into account.

I spend each day of my life around hundreds and hundreds of guns, most legal, many illegal........no big deal. 

You continue to make guesses and aaumptions about the carnage to come.....you refuse to look at the fact that your fears have not played out in the FORTY NINE states that allow concealed carry.......I'm sorry, they just don't.  Mosre and more states began to allow it once the people realized there really wasn't anything to be afraid of and we weren't having a gunfight on every corner.

It's a gun.........that's it.  It doesn't do anything by itself except hold paper down.

Ok......let's do it.  Same amount og guns will be purchased, smae amount of accidents will happen, same amount of senseless violence will occur.  Then what?

I no longer own any hunting equipment. No bows, no shot guns, but that was my choice as I no longer hunted and felt that they were not something I wanted in my house anymore.  But, what does that mean to the world, if the guy next door to me has twenty shot guns, 15 pistols and a few rifles, if he has that as a hobby and likes to shoot at the range and go hunting as it is his hobby and what he really enjoys in life.  We live in a small rural town of approximately 6000 people and when I was on a fishing trip with my father in Canada, my wife was witness to a shooting of a neighbor and my 6 year old is the one who called 911 at the time, yes they had 911 that many years ago and it wasn't a rotary phone.  I understand both sides of each persons arguement, but this is not going to be settled easily.

Are you going to restrict what guns I own, even though I own zero today, that doesn't mean I won't want to own a pistol in the future, or possibly (god forbid) a rifle that could only be used as a SNIPER's weapon and not for target practice.

I see many other things that are a larger percentage of problems in the United States, compared to gun control.  Maybe I live in small town America and have never seen the real world.  Who knows.

Which is exactly why Tony is suggesting taking stronger action against irresponsible gun owners. They are the one who are doing (or not doing) something. 

You are wrong. Period. Nothing to discuss about that.

The same as usually goes for parents that run over and kill their kids. You could prosecute them, but usually a prison sentence does not accomplish much.

Can you imagine the parent that allowed his child to accidentally kill his sibling... ya, a good prison sentence should work. The parent was neglegent in keeping his child safe... and he lost his child.... this happenss everyday in America in every possible way, dirt bikes, drownings, firarms, fireworks....

Just exactly what law do you think we can pass that would ensure a parent does not allow their child to die in an accident????

But that is the deal... you do not care about the accident, or the carless behaviour, or the poor parenting skills... even though you know nothing of thier parenting... you just want to focus on the number of Google articles you can pull up to agree with you idea that the solution to the gun problem is no guns, or endless legislation restricting their use. You say don't change the subject from guns... but it isn't the gun, it is the irresponsible parent... how do you want to fix that.

There is a very powerful ATT commecial/short story of texting and driving with cases of deaths. A Sister was texting her Sister directions to a party (no booze involved) and she hit a bridge abuttment and was killed instantly... she has her last text. What is the responsibility of her paerents giving her the cell phone, what was the responsibility of the Sister that caused her death? Who is responsible, and what is the appropriate punishment that should be handed out to that family?

What is irresponsible?  Define it.  Is it irresponsible if someone breaks into your car and steals your gun from the glovebox?  I'm not unreasonable when it comes to guns......but someone needs to come up with some ideas other than..."there will be carnage!!", and "we need to do something".

Gicve me something that I can live with that makes some sort of sense.  I haven't seen that yet.

I wish I was, but I'm not.  I investigate shootings.  This is REALLY simple stuff.

Still....nice try.

I just can't see how taking a driving test will reduce gun violence.

I have mixed feelings on the news aspect of it.  For desperate sick people it's about one upping the last mass shooting for notoriety.  The media has to report on these things, but the idiots get immortalized and famous by it as well.  I wish there was a way to report the shooting without identifying the shooter, but I know that's not possible.

Dang it Tony,  you beat me to it!!!

Less than any time in the last decade (despite the contnued rise of CCW permits)......try again.

Here's some data for you to click around on.....it's the 2009 report....but it'll give you an idea of the trend....it has continued and when I have more time I'll get you the link.

Give me something besides emotion, guess, and presumption.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/violent_crime/aggravated_assault.html

If I remember right, table 15 has weapon breakdown....there are others as well....just click around on it.

So what you investigate shootings? What does that have to do with the possible effect of controls that do not exist? You cannot possibly know empirically the impact they will have. Your anecdotal and often smug and dismissive comments do nothing to change that.

Those shootings were taking place in the 80s as well only no google.

It is the same with child abductions. Parents are afraid to let their children go outside because it is sooooo much worse now than it ever was. That is just simply not the case. When you are innudated with information on a given topic the world looks like it is coming to an end. That is simply not the case. That topic becomes perceptually so much worse than it is. People die for stupid reasons every day, most have nothing to do with guns but you focus on the guns becase it is the case seleb at the moment. When there is a 40 care pile up on the freeway with massive casualties you do not go searching for all the cases of mass pile ups you accept it as part of life.

There are something like 50K gun laws already on the books. Has that fixed the problems you see? Do you really believe one more will?

I say lets make everyone read a book, take classes and pass a test before being allowed to vote. Irresponsible politician are way more dangerous and cause way more harm to the general public than irresponsible gun owners.

I think everyone has the right to defend themselves and like it or not a gun is the great equalizer. And to ask someone to pass a test to exercise a basic human right to defend oneself is too much to ask.

Btw, my 10 year old is going to go out of his mind when he opens that Ruger 1022 under the tree this year.  

On the one hand I agree with you.  For certain things, the amount of information we have access to inflates our sense of worry when we are far more likely to die in more mundane ways. 

On the other hand, I think there are other things to consider in the context of your analogy.  We don't just accept dying in a car crash as part of life.  Either through government action or consumer demand, or both, we now have air bags, mandatory seat belt laws, higher crash test standards, anti drunk driving campaigns, etc that have tried to reduce the chance that someone dies or is hurt in an accident.  Do people still die?  Yes, clearly.  Have we made driving safer?  Yes, I think that is true too.

Fine....so just stand by and watch the number of gun increase without the amount of violence increasing along with it. 

Guns don't kill people.  I'm sorry you don't get that. (yeah, I'm smug about it because I'm sure of it)  And I have no problem dismissing any other notion as ridiculous.  Is that clearer?

I agree with Tony in that there needs to be some process to be able to hold the owners of weapons accountable for the unfortunate and tragic accidents.  That said I am not sure that a fine or prison is the answer to be piled on to the guilt one should feel for the rest of their life if a tragedy, like siblings shooting eachother, would happen in their homes. 

I believe training, certification or license simular to a process used to obtain a drivers license is an appropriate way to open the discussion.

What is the balance between home defense, poor storage practices, and safety?  Is there any data on accidents and incidents where the first two directly contributed to the situation.

All shootings are investigated, accidental or not.  If there is negligence then charges are filed.  Is that what you mean?  What else would you like? (sorry if that comes off as smug) 

I enjoy watching the argument take place that more education on guns/safety/use/handling/etc.... is a bad idea or that it won't make a difference.  Switzerland, who issues a gun to, and trains every male between the ages of 20-30 has one of the highest gun ownership rates of any country in the world and the gun crime rate is so low that they don't even keep statistics on it (it's so low it's statistically insignificant).

But yeah, education is worthless I guess.